Yata-Garasu Balanced (more or less)

[thekazu4u]

Don't get me wrong, it is still powerful, balanced just enough for Konami to be able to put it back at one. (especially if either Dark Hole or Heavy Storm were banned which in my view one should be anyway.)

[img]http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9071/358064i.jpg[/img]
Effect: This card cannot be Special Summoned. This card returns to the owner's hand during the End Phase of the turn that it is Normal Summoned, Flip Summoned or flipped face-up. When this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points in a turn when you did not Special Summon, both players skip his/her next respective Draw Phase.

This way, Yata-Garasu can still pick your opponent's corpse clean ohhh so slowly, but requires a deck dedicated to it and requires multiple turns of setup.

Comments?

[Sander]

Doesn't matter if it requires multiple turns of set up, it's still broken once you get it going.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

All Yata needs to be balanced is 0 ATK

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Æther Royce' timestamp='1321379295' post='5643976']
Doesn't matter if it requires multiple turns of set up, it's still broken once you get it going.
[/quote]

Many cards are broken once you get it going. Arcana Force XXI - The World and Exodia Necros say hi.




[quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1321381287' post='5644088']
All Yata needs to be balanced is 0 ATK
[/quote]

My effect balances it much more than that. A simple equip (especially one of the ones that go back to the top of the deck) make it just as broken as the normal Yata, only more so. Making it 0 attack affects it minimally, This " in a turn when you did not Special Summon" fixes it more permanently.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321381509' post='5644100']
Allot of cards are broken once you get it going. Arcana Force XXI - The World and Exodia Necros say hi.
[/quote]
Arcana Force is luck based and still requires 2 tributes.

Necross dies to anything that gets rid of an exodia piece in the Grave or to Ryko.

If your opponent can't stop this when you get it out, they aren't going to stop this.

[Razzion]

Actually, I might have a decent solution. I've pondered about it some myself, and this is what I arrived at:-

Yata Garasu
WIND/LV2*/ATK 200/DEF 100
[Winged Beast/Spirit] Can't be Special Summoned. This card you control returns to the hand at End of Turn. When this card deals the opponent battle damage, you may Exile 2 Spirit monsters in your Graveyard. If you do, the opponent skips their next Draw Phase.

Of course, it can still be abused with D.D. Burial and Miracle Dig, but at least that's somewhat more creative.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1321381841' post='5644119']
Arcana Force is luck based and still requires 2 tributes.

Necross dies to anything that gets rid of an exodia piece in the Grave or to Ryko.

If your opponent can't stop this when you get it out, they aren't going to stop this.
[/quote]

This is assuming the have no cards in hand or field. Also, since the player using Yata does not get a draw, it does not lead to card advantage. The only case in which this is OP'd is when they have no hand or field without a Special Summon, and if you can do that and get this you deserve to win. (You probably would win anyway.) Lets put it this way - if Yata was like this, there are plenty of cards more broken *coughrescuerabbitcough* and I would play against this card with no complaint.

[Sander]

Because getting your opponents hand and field to 0 is so hard.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Æther Royce' timestamp='1321384249' post='5644222']
Because getting your opponents hand and field to 0 is so hard.
[/quote]

Because no other cards can take advantage of the situation

[Sander]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321384725' post='5644242']
Because no other cards can take advantage of the situation
[/quote]

[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070527114333/yugioh/images/thumb/0/08/SkyScourgeNorlerasFOTB-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-SkyScourgeNorlerasFOTB-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img]

[AuroraM]

[quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1321381287' post='5644088']
All Yata needs to be balanced is 0 ATK
[/quote]

One playing Yata could use Rising Air Current to bring him up to 500, if that were the case. Besides, if his ATK was 0, and your opponent couldn't do anything when he's first out, the game would go in a neverending loop of Yataness.

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321382079' post='5644131']
This is assuming the have no cards in hand or field. Also, since the player using Yata does not get a draw, it does not lead to card advantage. The only case in which this is OP'd is when they have no hand or field without a Special Summon, and if you can do that and get this you deserve to win. (You probably would win anyway.) Lets put it this way - if Yata was like this, there are plenty of cards more broken *coughrescuerabbitcough* and I would play against this card with no complaint.
[/quote]

But but but...Rescue Rabbit is so cuuuute! x.x
More on topic, wouldn't this argument be the case with a regular Yata as well? Your version and the original would only work if the opponent doesn't have anything to take him down with that turn, the only difference being that your Yata would take a lot more time than the original due to him taking 200 at a time off, as opposed to with the original being able to Special Summon monsters after Yata to make it faster. Both rely on your opponent having nothing to counteract with. All your edit really does is prolong the inevitable.
(it especially doesn't make much of a difference if you run Mirror of Yata. Then the restriction of Special Summoning means little, as one would not have to worry about bringing Yata back every turn, and if you have a Normal Summon-able monster in your hand, well...)

This being said, I'm willing to suggest a few things in order to make this card a little less broken.
(mind you, I'm not saying implement all or any of them. Just things to think about. You can use, if you want though! ^^)

1. Add some sort of turn restriction to Yata's effect. Say something like "When this card inflicts Battle Damage to your opponent's Life Points in a turn when you did not Special Summon, both players skip his/her next respective Draw Phase. [b]This effect may only be used once every two turns[/b]" or something along those lines (I'm no OCG master or anything, so I'm not sure if it's the right wording).

2. Add a cost to Yata's effect.
[quote name='Razzion' timestamp='1321381962' post='5644127']
Actually, I might have a decent solution. I've pondered about it some myself, and this is what I arrived at:-

Yata Garasu
WIND/LV2*/ATK 200/DEF 100
[Winged Beast/Spirit] Can't be Special Summoned. This card you control returns to the hand at End of Turn. When this card deals the opponent battle damage, you may Exile[b](did you mean Banish, or is this a new term I'm not aware of?)[/b] 2 Spirit monsters in your Graveyard. If you do, the opponent skips their next Draw Phase.

Of course, it can still be abused with D.D. Burial and Miracle Dig, but at least that's somewhat more creative.
[/quote]
This isn't a bad idea, methinks, though maybe banish only 1 Spirit monster in your graveyard. Maybe you should have to pay Life Points equal to Yata's ATK to use his effect when he inflicts battle damage. Maybe you have to tribute a monster to use his effect? Possibly discard a card, with your version? Things like that.

Don't get me wrong, I love the fact that you attempted (and succeeded to a point) in making Yata more playable, and I'm not trying to knock you or anything, but personally, I think it's still a tad broken.

[thekazu4u]

Once every 2 turns is not a game mechanic. So that does not work -.-
And it would apply to the original yata accept you could special summon in the same turn, the entire idea would be preserving the lock but making it harder to achieve.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='TheTragicPrince' timestamp='1321385310' post='5644266']
One playing Yata could use Rising Air Current to bring him up to 500, if that were the case. Besides, if his ATK was 0, and your opponent couldn't do anything when he's first out, the game would go in a neverending loop of Yataness.
[/quote]
0 Damage is not inflicting Battle Damage, so you'd be forced to use something to increase it's attack.

[Blake]

This is still broken. the point of Yatalock is that they don't draw- IT doesn't matter if you draw or not, because the lock has begun ._.

[AuroraM]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321385505' post='5644281']
Once every 2 turns is not a game mechanic. So that does not work -.-
And it would apply to the original yata accept you could special summon in the same turn, the entire idea would be preserving the lock but making it harder to achieve.
[/quote]

Okay then, "You may not use this effect again until after 2 turns have passed". I believe 'after __ turns have passed' is the same wording as "Final Countdown".

[.Rai]

Uhh, why are people here so stupid?

ANYTHING that slows the game down significantly is stupid and boring.

Yata-Garasu was broken.

This is broken, and slows down the game tons.

Waiting for 2 turns actually says:

"Unless your opponent draws something that can get rid of Yata-Garasu in those two turns, you will still win anyway."

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1321386625' post='5644330']
Uhh, why are people here so stupid?

ANYTHING that slows the game down significantly is stupid and boring.

Yata-Garasu was broken.

This is broken, and slows down the game tons.

Waiting for 2 turns actually says:

"Unless your opponent draws something that can get rid of Yata-Garasu in those two turns, you will still win anyway."
[/quote]

Because banning substitoad slows the game down, the ban list obviously is stupid and boring.

[Blake]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321386874' post='5644341']
Because banning substitoad slows the game down, the ban list obviously is stupid and boring.
[/quote]
Slowing the game down =/= Bad

Slowing down the game to a standstill, ie yata = bad

[Sander]

[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321386874' post='5644341']
Because banning substitoad slows the game down, the ban list obviously is stupid and boring.
[/quote]

Yeah, nice try at sarcasm, but you failed.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1321386933' post='5644346']
Slowing the game down =/= Bad

Slowing down the game to a standstill, ie yata = bad
[/quote]

Meh ur probably right -.-
Then what I need to do is make it so it "locks" fairly well while still allowing the opposing player to play. Not sure how to do that really.

[AuroraM]

[quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1321386625' post='5644330']
Waiting for 2 turns actually says:

"Unless your opponent draws something that can get rid of Yata-Garasu in those two turns, you will still win anyway."
[/quote]

Umm...the opponent would be able to draw once every other turn. How is that saying "Unless your opponent draws something that can get rid of Yata-Garasu in those two turns, you still win anyway."? I thought it was a good way for the opponent to still have a chance, while still slowing the opponent down dramatically...

[.Rai]

[quote name='TheTragicPrince' timestamp='1321388057' post='5644396']


Umm...the opponent would be able to draw once every other turn. How is that saying "Unless your opponent draws something that can get rid of Yata-Garasu in those two turns, you still win anyway."? I thought it was a good way for the opponent to still have a chance, while still slowing the opponent down dramatically...
[/quote]

They still hardly have a chance though.

Their chance of winning, is usually about 3/40. If they're running max of some counter or something. But there's little that counters this.

[thekazu4u]

[quote name='TheTragicPrince' timestamp='1321388057' post='5644396']
Umm...the opponent would be able to draw once every other turn. How is that saying "Unless your opponent draws something that can get rid of Yata-Garasu in those two turns, you still win anyway."? I thought it was a good way for the opponent to still have a chance, while still slowing the opponent down dramatically...
[/quote]

This is a perfectly acceptable solution... accept for one problem. [b][u]There is no current game mechanic or wording that supports this.[/u][/b]

[AuroraM]

[quote name='Cursed Reaction' timestamp='1321389874' post='5644480']
They still hardly have a chance though.

Their chance of winning, is usually about 3/40. If they're running max of some counter or something. But there's little that counters this.
[/quote]
I disagree. If they draw any monster that can be Normal Summoned, that has an ATK or DEF of 300 or higher, Yata can't get through. Additionally, any attack-negating card drawn can stop Yata, including Scrap-Iron Scarecrow, Sakuretsu Armor, Mirror Force, Defense Draw, and the like. Swords can stall for three turns to draw such cards; the same concept can be used for Nightmare Steelcage.
[quote name='thekazu4u' timestamp='1321390008' post='5644483']
This is a perfectly acceptable solution... accept for one problem. [b][u]There is no current game mechanic or wording that supports this.[/u][/b]
[/quote]
Did you not see my post beforehand in which I edited my mechanic to more mimic 'Final Countdown'?
[quote name='TheTragicPrince' timestamp='1321385837' post='5644295']
Okay then, "You may not use this effect again until [b]after 2 turns have passed[/b]". I believe 'after __ turns have passed' is the same wording as "Final Countdown".
[/quote]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/yugioh/images/a/ae/FinalCountdownCP01-EN-C-UE.jpg[/img]
Lore: Pay 2000 Life Points. [b]After 20 turns have passed[/b] (counting the turn you activate this card as the 1st turn), you win the Duel.

If a phrase taken almost straight from an official card isn't a game mechanic, I dunno what is, or I'm seriously misunderstanding what you're trying to say.