Valkyrus Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb278/mario1092/ordoarch4.jpg[/img] This is the boss for my "Ordo" archetype and that archetype centers around this monster, it's Field Spell, level modification and burn. It's basically an anti-meta burn deck which screws up your opponent's attempts at Xyz/Synchro Summons. This is the Field Spell: [img]http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb278/mario1092/gm-1.jpg[/img] If you want to see more, go to the old thread: http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/276404-gandorator-bestdek-ordo-1616/ I made this thread because I don't want to bump ancient ones and I need some [size=5]GOOD [/size]feedback that I never got in the other thread. So what do you think? Love/hate/suggest/fix/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Ordo Archlord is broken, as it's never a dead draw, is an easy beatstick out from nowhere, and also turns anything that enables cards to be sent to the Graveyard from the Deck into a 3k beatstick, as well, ie Armageddon Knight, Dark Grepher, Foolish Burial, Lavalval Chain etc. etc. And giving your opponent the possibility to Summon something from the hand will not actually balance the card, as anything that they could get would not be strong enough to get rid of Archlord. No attack clause kinda balances the card, but not much. The field spell card is fine, though. Fun way to stop auto-pilot Synchro / Xyz decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1331331580' post='5863424'] Ordo Archlord is broken, as it's never a dead draw, is an easy beatstick out from nowhere, and also turns anything that enables cards to be sent to the Graveyard from the Deck into a 3k beatstick, as well, ie Armageddon Knight, Dark Grepher, Foolish Burial, Lavalval Chain etc. etc. And giving your opponent the possibility to Summon something from the hand will not actually balance the card, as anything that they could get would not be strong enough to get rid of Archlord. No attack clause kinda balances the card, but not much. The field spell card is fine, though. Fun way to stop auto-pilot Synchro / Xyz decks. [/quote] well, it's an easy beatstick but it has its drawbacks, such as the fact that it special summons monsters from your opponent's hand to their side[i] ignoring summoning conditions[/i] and also it's your opponent's choice what they want to take out. They can even take out a BLS out of nowhere and you don't have much to do against that. Also, if your opponent doesn't have monsters in their hand, you can't take this out at all. I've tested it on Duel Portal and more often than not it's turned into a dead draw because many of Archlord's support cards rely on him being already on the field. Also, he can't attack when summoned. But I guess it is a bit too abusable . So maybe I should continue the clause that says he can't attack on the same turn he's summoned and also he can only attack the opponent directly? (can't attack other monsters)? Would that balance it out enough? Oh and thanks, The field spell is actually what inspired me to make that whole archetype ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Actually, you can't SS monsters like Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning (from hand or Deck), since it has to be Special Summoned by its effect first to be able to be Summoned via effects that can "ignore the Summoning Conditions", as long as it's not returned to the hand or Deck. So yeah, your opponent isn't going to Summon anything really useful that could take this thing down, except from Tragoedia. And it really doesn't matter if your opponent does or does not have a monster in hand to Summon via Ordo Archlord. In fact, it's a plus for you even if they don't have anything to Summon, as you can then have a look at your opponents hand to confirm that they do not have anything to Summon. Also, I kinda fail to see how a 3k beater out from nowhere is a dead draw? Even if it cannot attack, it's still a 3k wall out from nowhere that your opponent will have to take down with wasting their removal cards. Honestly, I do not really know how to balance this card, as the restriction you suggested doesn't seem realistic at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1331336782' post='5863579'] Actually, you can't SS monsters like Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning (from hand or Deck), since it has to be Special Summoned by its effect first to be able to be Summoned via effects that can "ignore the Summoning Conditions", as long as it's not returned to the hand or Deck. So yeah, your opponent isn't going to Summon anything really useful that could take this thing down, except from Tragoedia. And it really doesn't matter if your opponent does or does not have a monster in hand to Summon via Ordo Archlord. In fact, it's a plus for you even if they don't have anything to Summon, as you can then have a look at your opponents hand to confirm that they do not have anything to Summon. Also, I kinda fail to see how a 3k beater out from nowhere is a dead draw? Even if it cannot attack, it's still a 3k wall out from nowhere that your opponent will have to take down with wasting their removal cards. Honestly, I do not really know how to balance this card, as the restriction you suggested doesn't seem realistic at all. [/quote] if you ss him while your opponent doesn't have any monsters in hand, it returns to your own hand. So if your opponent decides to summon his monsters as soon as he draws them, only during their turn, and have no monsters in their hand during yours, you can't summon this and it stays in your hand. (happened to me on Duel Portal. ) The restriction I gave is simple, I don't know why you think it wouldn't be realistic. When he's SS'd, your opponent ss's a monster too. And with the restriction, while your opponent has a monster on the field, you can't attack with Archlord. Your opponent automatically gets a monster out when you summon this so unless you have something else to destroy it with, you can't deal battle damage to your opponent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1331337663' post='5863605'] if you ss him while your opponent doesn't have any monsters in hand, it returns to your own hand. So if your opponent decides to summon his monsters as soon as he draws them, only during their turn, and have no monsters in their hand during yours, you can't summon this and it stays in your hand. (happened to me on Duel Portal. )[/quote] Duel Portal isn't really a good place to test anyways, unless you're facing people that you know who are good (which is only a handful in RC). In the actual game, people tend keep monsters in their hand. :/ [quote name='Gandorator' timestamp='1331337663' post='5863605'] The restriction I gave is simple, I don't know why you think it wouldn't be realistic. When he's SS'd, your opponent ss's a monster too. And with the restriction, while your opponent has a monster on the field, you can't attack with Archlord. Your opponent automatically gets a monster out when you summon this so unless you have something else to destroy it with, you can't deal battle damage to your opponent[/quote] May be not "not realistic" per se, but whatever. Imho, the no attacking of monsters clause actually renders the monster kinda useless. Maybe add a no Normal / SS after when Ordo Archlord is Summoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1331336782' post='5863579'] Actually, you can't SS monsters like Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning (from hand or Deck), since it has to be Special Summoned by its effect first to be able to be Summoned via effects that can "ignore the Summoning Conditions", as long as it's not returned to the hand or Deck. So yeah, your opponent isn't going to Summon anything really useful that could take this thing down, except from Tragoedia. And it really doesn't matter if your opponent does or does not have a monster in hand to Summon via Ordo Archlord. In fact, it's a plus for you even if they don't have anything to Summon, as you can then have a look at your opponents hand to confirm that they do not have anything to Summon. Also, I kinda fail to see how a 3k beater out from nowhere is a dead draw? Even if it cannot attack, it's still a 3k wall out from nowhere that your opponent will have to take down with wasting their removal cards. Honestly, I do not really know how to balance this card, as the restriction you suggested doesn't seem realistic at all. [/quote] Actually, you CAN Special Summon Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning by this card's effect. Complete nomi monsters like Quasar and the LV monsters can't, but semi-nomis should be able to. OT: The Archlord is abusable. It can be Special Summoned by it's own effect with no conditions at all, from both your hand or Graveyard. If your opponent cannot Special Summon something, this states that it returns to your hand. ^that means that you will be able to randomly trigger it's Special Summon effect from the Graveyard, and the worse thing to happen will be that you have +1 extra card in your hand to discard. At 3, it means constant +3 hand advantage and Hand Destruction = Pot of Greed. My suggestion is that, it simply cannot be Special Summon to begin with if your opponent doesn't have anything to Summon. In other words, make the opponent's Special Summon a condition before this card's text of self-Special Summon. Also, that will let you get rid of the "it returns to hand" part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrus Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Berry Punch~' timestamp='1331341298' post='5863708'] Actually, you CAN Special Summon Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning by this card's effect. Complete nomi monsters like Quasar and the LV monsters can't, but semi-nomis should be able to. OT: The Archlord is abusable. It can be Special Summoned by it's own effect with no conditions at all, from both your hand or Graveyard. If your opponent cannot Special Summon something, this states that it returns to your hand. ^that means that you will be able to randomly trigger it's Special Summon effect from the Graveyard, and the worse thing to happen will be that you have +1 extra card in your hand to discard. At 3, it means constant +3 hand advantage and Hand Destruction = Pot of Greed. My suggestion is that, it simply cannot be Special Summon to begin with if your opponent doesn't have anything to Summon. In other words, make the opponent's Special Summon a condition before this card's text of self-Special Summon. Also, that will let you get rid of the "it returns to hand" part. [/quote] Yeah, that was my initial thought, but so that it gains counters from its own summon (considering the field spell is face-up ) I changed it a little, so it special summons opp's monster AFTER Archlord (so opp's monster's level changes and gives archlord counters)). But I guess that's not that important. It wouldn't gain that many counters from that anyways. It does make it very abusable. I mean, you can't even get rid of it for good with anything but banishing it.... Okay, I'll see what I can do to fix it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REvan342 Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 This card breaks all sorts of barriers....... The abilities gives your opponent potential to Destroy you ...... and yet this cards own powers make it luck-of -draw whether or not they draw a powerful enough monster. Which well balences Archlord, in my opinion. Better balenced than the god cards anyways lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Berry Punch~' timestamp='1331341298' post='5863708'] Actually, you CAN Special Summon Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning by this card's effect. Complete nomi monsters like Quasar and the LV monsters can't, but semi-nomis should be able to.[/quote] Actually, you can't. Semi-Nomi monsters need to be Summoned first via said semi-nomis effect before they can be revived from the Graveyard / Banished Zone. Sauce: [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon-only_monster"]http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon-only_monster[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1331383017' post='5864293'] Actually, you can't. Semi-Nomi monsters need to be Summoned first via said semi-nomis effect before they can be revived from the Graveyard / Banished Zone. Sauce: [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Special_Summon-only_monster"]http://yugioh.wikia....on-only_monster[/url] [/quote] Under normal conditions yes, but you are ignoring the "ignoring the Summoning conditions" in the card. The phrase "ignoring the Summoning conditons" was made to ignore semi-nomi conditions, and revive full nomi monsters that were properly Summoned first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Berry Punch~' timestamp='1331392312' post='5864370'] Under normal conditions yes, but you are ignoring the "ignoring the Summoning conditions" in the card. The phrase "ignoring the Summoning conditons" was made to ignore semi-nomi conditions, and revive full nomi monsters that were properly Summoned first. [/quote] The phrase "ignoring the Summoning conditons" was made up by Kevin Tewart to aid "LV" monsters with "Level Up!" (which uses a different phrase all together) or "Level Modulation", but those LV monsters have had to be Summoned properly first if you're using "Level Modulation" to revive said LV monster. tl;dr: "Ignoring the Summoning conditions" only works on Nomi / Semi-Nomi monsters that were PROPERLY SUMMONED first, ie it does not allow you to SS a Semi-Nomi from your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 [quote name='Zanda Panda' timestamp='1331395457' post='5864439'] The phrase "ignoring the Summoning conditons" was made up by Kevin Tewart to aid "LV" monsters with "Level Up!" (which uses a different phrase all together) or "Level Modulation", but those LV monsters have had to be Summoned properly first if you're using "Level Modulation" to revive said LV monster. tl;dr: "Ignoring the Summoning conditions" only works on Nomi / Semi-Nomi monsters that were PROPERLY SUMMONED first, ie it does not allow you to SS a Semi-Nomi from your hand. [/quote] If Semi-Nomi monsters were PROPERLY SUMMONED first, then it wouldn't be "ignoring the Summoning conditions" to begin with. I'm guessing that info is from: [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Ignoring_the_Summoning_Conditions"]http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Ignoring_the_Summoning_Conditions[/url] which seems to show that all examples of "ignorning the Summoning conditions" up until now IRL have only been able to be applied to specific monsters they are directed to, which all happen to be nomi monsters. That said, the only reason it doesn't apply to semi-nomi monsters in that article, is that none of the cards have up until now been directed to them (Level Up!/Level Modulation/Level Down!? only work with LV monsters, which are either nomis or nothing, Assault Mode support only works with the 100% nomi population of Assault Modes). In other words, no living examples up until now =/= disproven. Or how would you reword the effect to make it do what it's supposed to do, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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