HSektor Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1336761787' post='5937233'] ... Are you kidding me? Cyber Stein should NEVER COME BACK. It can pull 4000+ Beaters, 2800 double attackers, Walking NOs to S/T, etc. It can be countered is a stupid argument. It's caused one of the few times that Evilfusion got worked up because Shard argued SHI EN IS BALANCED CAUSE COUNTERABLE. Using that argument is worse than "Deck X needs broken card Y so broken card Y shouldn't die" =/ [/quote] I'm not just talking about counterable, but benefices too. Paying 5000LP to get a Walking NO S/T can be pretty much risky because if for some reason you don't OTK/Lockdown (Veiler, Ryko, Snowman Eater, etc), you're half dead. Paying 5000LP also means that you can't pay 2 solemn warning and if he doesn't bring the walking NO S/T, he'll need to use all of his S/T destruction cards. (main 3 MSTs and 1 Heavy, that kind of stuff) IMO Cyber Stein isn't going to be used in every deck and people may need to make a dedicated deck for him, you can just side 3 Veilers and 3 Snowman eaters and proceed with your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1336761787' post='5937233'] ... Are you kidding me? Cyber Stein should NEVER COME BACK. It can pull 4000+ Beaters, 2800 double attackers, Walking NOs to S/T, etc. It can be countered is a stupid argument. It's caused one of the few times that Evilfusion got worked up because Shard argued SHI EN IS BALANCED CAUSE COUNTERABLE. Using that argument is worse than "Deck X needs broken card Y so broken card Y shouldn't die" =/ [/quote] Stein is reallllly unreliable. With exterio the cards that back would back it up cost life points(warning/judgment,inzektors wreck BTH) and having an attack position (most likely) stein leaves you vulnerable. Even with a perfect setup it still gets wrecked by ryko. Twin or cyber end dont really OTK without megamorph,which is pretty inconsistent to play and unless you open with both stein + morph you probably wont get an OTK. It's super inconsistent to try to splash too since it's LP cost makes it dead anytime past turn 3 and if you use a solemn warning beforehand a hopper swinging over your stein will end it there,the only way to really work with it is to open with it and go first or OTK with it on the second turn when your opponent hasnt made a real setup yet,and running cards like that would be really inconsistent,so not only is this card often dead, but you made more cards dead and you even easier to beat. It's not really that splashable considering how a card this inconsistent is too unreliable to play. It's about as splashable as dustshoot in a no heavy storm format. If this card is not splashed, it'll have a deck around it. Which will be bad and inconsistent for relying on combos which are harder to pull out than even Exodia. Then there's the problem of the counters which [b]dont really justify his existence[/b],but if he did exist the idea of getting veilered along with all the consistency glugs you take to make stuff with it would probably turn people off from trying to play it all in all on a YCS level,too unreliable. I dont really want it back because it either sucks or ruins the game,but it could probably come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1336762477' post='5937243'] I'm not just talking about counterable, but benefices too. Paying 5000LP to get a Walking NO S/T can be pretty much risky because if for some reason you don't OTK/Lockdown (Veiler, Ryko, Snowman Eater, etc), you're half dead. [b]I'm not gonna use Solemn Judgment, because if I don't time it perfectly, I'm half dead.[/b] Paying 5000LP also means that you can't pay 2 solemn warning and if he doesn't bring the walking NO S/T, he'll need to use all of his S/T destruction cards. (main 3 MSTs and 1 Heavy, that kind of stuff) [b]... It's uncommon to use S/T destruction to prep an OTK? Solemn Judgment doesn't stop your Second Warning on occasion?[/b] IMO Cyber Stein isn't going to be used in every deck and people may need to make a dedicated deck for him, you can just side 3 Veilers and 3 Snowman eaters and proceed with your life. [b]And Brio doesn't deserve a ban because its loops are easy to stop/inconsistent and DW suck and never ever see play because you can side against them so easily.[/b] [/quote] Seriously?[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1336762821' post='5937248'] Then there's the problem of the counters which [b]dont really justify his existence[/b],but if he did exist the idea of getting veilered along with all the consistency glugs you take to make stuff with it would probably turn people off from trying to play it all in all on a YCS level,too unreliable. I dont really want it back because it either sucks or ruins the game,but it could probably come back. [/quote] This is pretty much it. I don't think it would be that good, but it's still among the worst cards in the game, design wise, and it doesn't have any reason to exist. The casual worth doesn't outclass the stupidity behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1336763025' post='5937250'] Seriously? This is pretty much it. I don't think it would be that good, but it's still among the worst cards in the game, design wise, and it doesn't have any reason to exist. The casual worth doesn't outclass the stupidity behind it. [/quote] So a card can't exist even if nobody is going to use it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1336763137' post='5937258'] So a card can't exist even if nobody is going to use it? [/quote] When it's an all-or-nothing OTK/Lock or waste of space that adds 0 value to the game, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Amusingly,the main reasons why stein isnt good anymore and should come back only make him more and more worth not bringing back since they make him have less and less use outside of OTKs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. guy Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 Ultimate axon kicker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1336722685' post='5936920'] This card should come back. Come on, we have like 10^87356 ways to stop this card, it isn't THAT broken right now. [/quote] Two approximate calculations give the number of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom"]atoms[/url] in the observable universe to be close to 10[sup]80[/sup]. There's exaggeration and then there's the completely insane. Anyway, I don't think this card would redefine the meta, since almost every trap out there can stop it, but the one combo promotes games that are way too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted May 11, 2012 Report Share Posted May 11, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - ä¿¡ä»°' timestamp='1336763807' post='5937271'] Two approximate calculations give the number of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atom"]atoms[/url] in the observable universe to be close to 10[sup]80[/sup]. There's exaggeration and then there's the completely insane. Anyway, I don't think this card would redefine the meta, since almost every trap out there can stop it, but the one combo promotes games that are way too short. [/quote] Yeah, it was a exaggeration, lol. Anyway, I agree. This card will not redefine the meta or something IF is limited, but the combos are really deadly if you don't stop them. It's like a 1-time only nuke. You shoot, if you don't kill the target, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY INTERNET FIGHT OT: What would happen if the effect changed from paying 5000 pay until you have 100 or something like that. Would that make this a little less broken? Or....................................... MOAR DEBATING, PPLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [quote name='DJVD' timestamp='1336788738' post='5937634'] YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY INTERNET FIGHT OT: What would happen if the effect changed from paying 5000 pay until you have 100 or something like that. Would that make this a little less broken? Or....................................... MOAR DEBATING, PPLS [/quote] I imagine there'd be more of a chance that a legal version of this card would have the Fusion's ATK reduced to 0, eliminating it's OTK potential, and only really leaving that Naturia Fusion in Defense Position as the main focus [s]or Blue Eyes Shinning Dragon[/s]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonenhikada1 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [quote name='Berry Punch~' timestamp='1336788904' post='5937639'] I imagine there'd be more of a chance that a legal version of this card would have the Fusion's ATK reduced to 0, eliminating it's OTK potential, and only really leaving that Naturia Fusion in Defense Position as the main focus [s]or Blue Eyes Shinning Dragon[/s]. [/quote] [quote name='Berry Punch~' timestamp='1336788904' post='5937639'] I imagine there'd be more of a chance that a legal version of this card would have the Fusion's ATK reduced to 0, eliminating it's OTK potential, and only really leaving that Naturia Fusion in Defense Position as the main focus [s]or Blue Eyes Shinning Dragon[/s]. [/quote] So I waste 5000 LP to get a 0 atk monster, that can be rolled over by anyone....ah yeah...sucky card design and unnecessary nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 They should bring it back so that an idiot on DN will activate its effect and pay 5000 LP. Then I'll veiler it. Who said there isn't a point to it besides OTKing? Trolling noobs is FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [quote name='Shonenhikada1' timestamp='1336789046' post='5937644'] So I waste 5000 LP to get a 0 atk monster, that can be rolled over by anyone....ah yeah...sucky card design and unnecessary nerf. [/quote] I don't think he meant the 5000 was included. Would be 1500-2000 life points, more sense that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [quote name='Shonenhikada1' timestamp='1336789046' post='5937644'] So I waste 5000 LP to get a 0 atk monster, that can be rolled over by anyone....ah yeah...sucky card design and unnecessary nerf. [/quote] Never said it was gonna be good, but you have to agree with me. Most re-makes of cards rarely end up balanced. They either end up awfully weak, or still abusable. Predicting what would a remake look like =/= Suggesting a carefully thought out idea. Extrio still would be a 2400 DEF Spell/Trap hater though.[quote name='DJVD' timestamp='1336789525' post='5937655'] I don't think he meant the 5000 was included. Would be 1500-2000 life points, more sense that way. [/quote] and yes, there is also that. 5000 is pretty absurd as a payment. It's only excuse upon creation was being OTK potential. Removing that factor would require a lower payment indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [quote name='DJVD' timestamp='1336788738' post='5937634'] YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY INTERNET FIGHT OT: What would happen if the effect changed from paying 5000 pay until you have 100 or something like that. Would that make this a little less broken? Or....................................... MOAR DEBATING, PPLS [/quote] That would make it bad to the point of being 110% only for OTKs,at least this version has [i]SOME[/i] non-OTK potential,but this one is just OTK or an 800 atk monster will finish you. We need a stein that hits the goldilocks zone,not too bad and not too good,that would be playable but not able to OTK with ease,and has use outside of OTKs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath's Child Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [font=georgia,serif]'So what would happen if this came back?'[/font] [font=georgia,serif]- Casual players using it for non-OTK purposes that I honestly don't have the foggiest idea what (it is even possible to play Cyber-Stein as a non-OTK card?);[/font] [font=georgia,serif]- Most competitive players, if not all of them, stay away from Stein, as [s]Effect Veiler[/s] is officially a dirty word.[/font] [font=georgia,serif]- Stein stays unused for the most part.[/font] [font=georgia,serif]If the card stays unusable, why unban it? I don't see good sense behind this.[/font] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhoAreYou? Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 [quote name='Wrath's Child' timestamp='1336826995' post='5937917'] [font=georgia,serif]'So what would happen if this came back?'[/font] [font=georgia,serif]- Casual players using it for non-OTK purposes that I honestly don't have the foggiest idea what (it is even possible to play Cyber-Stein as a non-OTK card?);[/font] [font=georgia,serif]- Most competitive players, if not all of them, stay away from Stein, as [s]Effect Veiler[/s] is officially a dirty word.[/font] [font=georgia,serif]- Stein stays unused for the most part.[/font] [font=georgia,serif]If the card stays unusable, why unban it? I don't see good sense behind this.[/font] [/quote] -BEUD+Megamorph or something similar. -EFFECT VEILER IS A FEARSOME WORD JUST LIKE VOLDEMORT. -I don't think there's a way to NOT counter Stein, and I don't mean just Veiler. So yeah, I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Every deck has a million counters to Inzektor Dragonfly, it must suck. Every deck has counters to Gorz, it must suck. Every deck has counters to BLS-EotB, it must suck. All of these (except Gorz most of the time) can OTK when they're played and everyone wants them banned or hit, why should Cyber Stein suddenly be an exception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 With inzektor dragonfly when you get countered you lose basically nothing,so nobody would be put off from playing it. Same with gorz/BLSEOTB. With cyber stein if you get countered then that's that,pick up your cards and go to game 2,you're done,the whole idea of your stein getting countered makes him too risky of a gamble to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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