Synchronized Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1342989024' post='5985776'] No one ever got bored of Goat Format. [/quote] That's just because Airknight Parshath is a boss. Of course, I get what you mean; but nowadays, it seems like no format is good enough for the majority of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Or Konami pumps out shitty formats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 The formats are defined by how people play them. If someone breaks a card, of course it gets hit. And when a card stops being powerful, it gets back. Monster reborn, Dark hole. BLS. All of these were on the banlist for a while. Now, they are usable becuase the game changes. Sets will eventually come out that counter, Dino Rabbit, Chaos Dragon, and the other meta decks, becuase thats how the game evolves. Few cards are broken alone. Its just they become broken when played with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Maybe Konami should "reinvent" the game or implant more "gametypes". It wouldn't really help the format itself, but it would make the game way more fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1343002389' post='5985934'] Maybe Konami should "reinvent" the game or implant more "gametypes". It wouldn't really help the format itself, but it would make the game way more fun. [/quote] That reminds me that I made "Rule Cards" that created different game types, like "Timed Duels" and "Limited Duels", where you had a clock for how much time you could spend on your turns, or a certain number of zones... Stuff like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1342968950' post='5985484'] So... Chain Burn, Empty Jar, Exodia, Final Countdown, Hieratics, Lavals, Inzektors, and Wind-ups all die? [/quote] Chain Burn, Exodia, Final Countdown and I guess Empty Jar can die. On the other hand, Hieratics, Lavals, Inzektors and Wind-Ups are fine as decks....its just 1or 2 card that breaks them. Red Eyes...and I guess Atum, Rekindling, Hornet and Hunter...if you remove those cards, all those decks become playable but balanced. [quote name='werewolfjedi' timestamp='1342978734' post='5985623'] Really long post by Werewolf Jedi [/quote] This reminds me of something I heard Phenoblack talk about on youtube..I understand the concept....but as you said, its too much like rock/paper/scissors for my taste...then again YGO is already like RPS. Deck A beats Deck B but loses to Deck C, Deck B beats Deck C but loses to Deck A and Deck C beats Deck A but loses to Deck B. All decks should be able to win against another based on the player skill. Yes there will always be "bad match-ups" and the "luck sack", but a deck should not just auto-lose to someone flipping 1 or 2 cards (skill drain, macro ect ect.) There have been times where I knew I was a better player than the person I'm playing...but I end up losing just cuz he flipped a Skill Drain/Macro and I never drew my MST/Heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Alternate win conditions should always exist, becuase there should be other ways to win than the normal. I know this is a bad example, but lightsworns if anything give your opponent an alternate win condition if they can last that long. Having different win conditions lets different playing styles play. I admit, some of them are just silly. But really, all of them are hard do, with a couple of exceptions. I mean yes the Exodia draw loop is silly, but they are 5 cards in there deck down. So they have 5 less cards to protect there key play. Burning can be easily countered by putting out a prime material dragon. Mill has to have a dedicated deck towards it. The splashable ones like final countdown, still needs lots of stalling. Every single alternate win condition can be countered. And, this is the nearing the end of the current format, of course its going to be terrible at the moment, becuase all the sets released since the last one are fair game. So really, if we wiat for the banlist, this will get better, and then worse when new cards come out, becuase people have turned the game into just a purely competetive thing. So really, its not the cards, it the people who think winning is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='HiveNet' timestamp='1343047229' post='5986266'] Alternate win conditions should always exist, becuase there should be other ways to win than the normal. I know this is a bad example, but lightsworns if anything give your opponent an alternate win condition if they can last that long. Having different win conditions lets different playing styles play. I admit, some of them are just silly. But really, all of them are hard do, with a couple of exceptions. I mean yes the Exodia draw loop is silly, but they are 5 cards in there deck down. So they have 5 less cards to protect there key play. Burning can be easily countered by putting out a prime material dragon. Mill has to have a dedicated deck towards it. The splashable ones like final countdown, still needs lots of stalling. Every single alternate win condition can be countered. And, this is the nearing the end of the current format, of course its going to be terrible at the moment, becuase all the sets released since the last one are fair game. So really, if we wiat for the banlist, this will get better, and then worse when new cards come out, becuase people have turned the game into just a purely competetive thing. So really, its not the cards, it the people who think winning is everything. [/quote] No, just no. Just because you can counter something does not make it ok. I can Bottomless a Judgment Dragon/BLS, does that make those fair cards? The reason final countdown is bad for that game is BECAUSE it encourages stall...why should a player be rewarded just because he/she was able to stall for 20 turns? Exodia is bad because it does not encourage player interaction and a player is rewarded just because he was able to play a silly loop that allowed him to draw his deck in 2-3 turns. Mill is not in the same category as alternate win conditions such as countdown and exodia. mill decks (excluding empty jar) usually encourages player interaction..those decks are not herp derp one turn combo. Burn was something that was ok then it got out of control when the amount of damage you were able to do in one turn increased to unreasonably amounts and the requirement for activation is flipping the card over. Another problem with Burn decks...namely Chain Burn is that the only set up it requires is "I set my hand" which requires no skill and offers too much reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 idk what people playing to win has to do with how a format turns out. If no one played to win, then yugioh (and by extent all forms of games) would have died long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343050003' post='5986274'] idk what people playing to win has to do with how a format turns out. If no one played to win, then yugioh (and by extent all forms of games) would have died long ago. [/quote] As in the competetive side of it has taken all of the joy of playing the game away. And, the format changes are partially due to how people actually use the cards. When someone breaks the card, it takes a hit. Its not people playing to win becuase everyone wants to do that, its people who want to win more than they want to enjoy the game. and @ Le Magician. I accept that some cards are just broken from the off (CED, BLS ect), and yes encouraging stalling is stupid, but its a game. If someone want to try and win in a different way, then i will play them anyway, and if i lose, i lose. I don't see alternate Winning Conditions as bad, becuase i just play for fun. I have lost to Final Countdown stalls, and Exodia decks, but i'm not going to say all of them should be banned, becuase some people do still play fairly with them. But i do share your view that a lot of people have removed all player interaction and just go for 'i play this card, and i win'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 What the f*** is wrong with you? Just because you don't enjoy playing to win doesn't mean other people don't. People enjoy winning, and people enjoy winning games they enjoy playing. Competitiveness doesn't take out the fun of the game for the vast majority of people. People wanting ways to win better than their opponent's is in no way a bad thing for a format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I play competitively and I find it enjoyable. Even if I lose....I still enjoy myself if it was a good and intense match that forced my to play at my best. The only alternate win conditions I support are those that still encourage player interaction. Natural Deck-Out, Burn decks that are not derpy and some others I can't remember right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I'll guess we'll agree to disagree on this one. I do however find find draw loops annoying as anything, and feel that a lot of work does need doing to make the formats better. I just don't think there will ever be a decent enough format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I don't want to side Prime Material Dragon just because Burn exists, if I'm a competitive player. If people want to play casual, let them, but the banlist is supposed to cater for a competitive player's needs, not a casual player's .-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 I just think that Konami should support both type of players: casual and tourney players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Is the enormous card pool of casual crap not good enough for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='HiveNet' timestamp='1343050750' post='5986281'] As in the competetive side of it has taken all of the joy of playing the game away. And, the format changes are partially due to how people actually use the cards. When someone breaks the card, it takes a hit. Its not people playing to win becuase everyone wants to do that, its people who want to win more than they want to enjoy the game. [/quote] Winning is fun. Ever think of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 It's not fun winning in one turn, or without the other player even taking a turn, though. At least not often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1343053882' post='5986304'] I just think that Konami should support both type of players: casual and tourney players. [/quote] Casual: They just released a Sealed Play pack. No comment on ew, making the UK's only YCS bad. And that 3/4 of every single pack is mainly pack filler/casual cards. Tournament: They support tourney players by having a banlist. Hopefully, they'll be intelligent. Of all things, they're catering to the casual player more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343056613' post='5986326'] It's not fun winning in one turn, or without the other player even taking a turn, though. At least not often. [/quote] I was mentioning more on competitive vs casual thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343056613' post='5986326'] It's not fun winning in one turn, or without the other player even taking a turn, though. At least not often. [/quote] This is ironic coming from a Laval player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343057046' post='5986333'] This is ironic coming from a Laval player. [/quote] I have other decks. I play a lot of really weak people, so I generally [i]don't [/i]use Lavals believe it or not. EDIT: *checks name history* WTF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343058366' post='5986337'] I have other decks. I play a lot of really weak people, so I generally [i]don't [/i]use Lavals believe it or not. EDIT: *checks name history* WTF? [/quote] Koko loling around with Chris' profile. It's not fun playing against or with Lavals, no matter how much, if you stay true to your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Autopilot playbooks get boring. Unfortunately, the game is so ridiculously expensive that if you're not online, you'd be hardpressed to have more than 1 deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superdoopertrooper Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1342989024' post='5985776'] No one ever got bored of Goat Format. [/quote]It was fun, but ruined by PoG and Duo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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