ITT: Dem tries to make a banlist

[Blake]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343932320' post='5995463']
Rota would be at 3 if six samurai didnt have DEST,SSU,or gateway and heroes didnt have stratos,since then it would actually MAKE -1 synchros and xyzes,which it doesnt now and everyone knows it,and few of the things ROTA grabs clog as much as psychics.
[/quote]
No, RotA should not be at 3. No, this should not be at 3. Free searches for exactly what you want are terrible design, and really shouldn't be at more than 1 for anything.

[.Rai]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343932320' post='5995463']
Rota would be at 3 if six samurai didnt have DEST,SSU,or gateway and heroes didnt have stratos,since then it would actually MAKE -1 synchros and xyzes,which it doesnt now and everyone knows it,and few of the things ROTA grabs clog as much as psychics.
[/quote]

I'm sorry; how do Psychics clog?

There was a reason why the Psychic engine existed even without Mind Master :S

And how on earth are you complaining aabout -1 Synchros and Xyzs. ALL Synchros are basically -1s most of the time :/

[mido9]

Depends on what those searches search and what you can do with them...

[.Rai]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343932463' post='5995468']
Depends on what those searches search and what you can do with them...
[/quote]

No, it depends on the fact that it's a bloody Special Summon from the Deck .-.

Even if by some miracle that that isn't insanely stupid, it's still ridiculous design for the fact [b]that it's a bloody Special Summon from the Deck.[/b]

[Blake]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343932463' post='5995468']
Depends on what those searches search and what you can do with them...
[/quote]
No, it doesn't.

Free searches, especially Quickplay Searches that SS from the deck, do NOT deserve to exist at more than 1. They reward you for simply playing the game, rather than playing it right. They increase consistency, but being able to run 3 search cards that give you exactly what you want when you want it is bad design. This shouldn't be hard to comprehend.

[Expelsword]

Anyone who says ETele should be at 3 is not familiar with TeleDAD...

[Althemia]

[quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1343930730' post='5995442']
> Awks, putting Magic Cylinder at 3. Obviously no-one will use it at 3, but it's goddamn annoying design that should be at 0.
[/quote]

Chain Burn would for an easy to get 3k on your opponent when you give them Lava Golem. And stuff. Yeah. :3c

Still say there needs to be a hit on Lavals.

[newhat]

What would you suggest hitting for Lavals and Atlanteans, if anything?

[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Molten_Transmission_Field"]Consis[/url][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Deep_Sea_Diva"]tency[/url]?
[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Atlantean_Marksman"]Spe[/url][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Laval_Volcano_Handmaiden"]ed[/url]?
[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Salvage"]Po[/url][url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Laval_Cannon"]wer[/url]?
[url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Rekindling"]Instant[/url] [url="http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Atlantean_Roar"]wins[/url]?

[Expelsword]

Rekindling can't be banned or the deck is worthless.
Limited it still might hurt them bad, but then again 2 is probably too much...

[Blake]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343936725' post='5995519']
Rekindling can't be banned or the deck is worthless.
Limited it still might hurt them bad, but then again 2 is probably too much...
[/quote]
Lavals don't deserve to live if they need a +4 ._.

[.Rai]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343936725' post='5995519']
Rekindling can't be banned or the deck is worthless.
Limited it still might hurt them bad, but then again 2 is probably too much...
[/quote]

That's the point.

[Expelsword]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343936770' post='5995520']
Lavals don't deserve to live if they need a +4 ._.
[/quote]
Hitting Rekindling also kills Flamvell though, so if you really wanted to remove the Laval threat, you should hit, like, Laval Tender.

[mido9]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343932633' post='5995470']
No, it doesn't.

Free searches, especially Quickplay Searches that SS from the deck, do NOT deserve to exist at more than 1. They reward you for simply playing the game, rather than playing it right. They increase consistency, but being able to run 3 search cards that give you exactly what you want when you want it is bad design. This shouldn't be hard to comprehend.
[/quote]
Searches reward you for knowing when to conserve a card in deck for later and when to use a resource over another in a situation,in addition to the knowing what to do with a resource when you get it involved with a card,they reward you for knowing what to do and playing it right. Searcher design is subjective.

[.Rai]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343937216' post='5995530']
Hitting Rekindling also kills Flamvell though, so if you really wanted to remove the Laval threat, you should hit, like, Laval Tender.
[/quote]

Flamvells can kinda survive as a decktype by the fact that it synergises well with other archetypes and also have that weird FIRE Xyz to help.

If that's where they lie without Rekindling, so be it.

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343937291' post='5995533']
Searches reward you for knowing when to conserve a card in deck for later and when to use a resource over another in a situation,in addition to the knowing what to do with a resource when you get it involved with a card,they reward you for knowing what to do and playing it right. That's why people like promoting consistency so much.
[/quote]

You just rambled complete nonsense there.

[Blake]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343937216' post='5995530']
Hitting Rekindling also kills Flamvell though, so if you really wanted to remove the Laval threat, you should hit, like, Laval Tender.
[/quote]
OR we could hit Rekindling for being godawful design that restricts FIRE too much and centralizes the thought with fire to "Should have 200 DEF" and be done with it.

Rekindling doesn't deserve to exist. As a player, you shouldn't be looking for a way to save your precious deck, you should be looking how to balance the game.

[Althemia]

Hit Rekindling and hit Seahorseman. That's probably the best way to do it imo.

[Blake]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343937291' post='5995533']
Searches reward you for knowing when to conserve a card in deck for later and when to use a resource over another in a situation,in addition to the knowing what to do with a resource when you get it involved with a card,they reward you for knowing what to do and playing it right. That's why people like promoting consistency so much.
[/quote]
IT'S A FREE SPECIAL SUMMON FROM THE DECK. HOW ARE YOU NOT GETTING THIS?

Free searches are BAD FREAKING DESIGN. They allow you to have the exact combo piece when you want it. Consistency is fine and well, but it's honestly TOO easy to abuse. Draw cards are infinitely more balanced than Searchers, in general. These spell searchers, at least, should go to 1. ALL OF THEM. But only those that are a problem will.

Just because a card can reward skilled playing does not mean it's good design. This is a fallacy that a lot of people think means a card is auto-fine. It's not. If the card is too good, even for rewarding skill, it needs to die.

[Expelsword]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1343937337' post='5995535']
Rekindling doesn't deserve to exist. As a player, you shouldn't be looking for a way to save your precious deck, you should be looking how to balance the game.
[/quote]
I agree, but outside of Firedog, Flamvells really rely on it completely.

Unless FIRE gets some good support next set, like Agro thinks, it's dusted if Rekindling is banned.
Blame Konami for overcentralizing.
Rekindling @1 with Alistor's cards (Bonfire and Fire Recovery) could keep Flamvells alive.

Lavals need a different kind of hit to avoid accidentally dragging Flamvells with them.

[Althemia]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343938004' post='5995541']
I agree, but outside of Firedog, Flamvells really rely on it completely.
Unless FIRE gets some good support next set, like Agro thinks, it's dusted if Rekindling is banned.
Blame Konami for overcentralizing.
Rekindling @1 with Alistor's cards (Bonfire and Fire Recovery) could keep Flamvells alive.
Lavals need a different kind of hit to avoid accidentally dragging Flamvells with them.
[/quote]

I'd much rather just hit Rekindling.

[.Rai]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343938004' post='5995541']
I agree, but outside of Firedog, Flamvells really rely on it completely.
Unless FIRE gets some good support next set, like Agro thinks, it's dusted if Rekindling is banned.
Blame Konami for overcentralizing.
Rekindling @1 with Alistor's cards (Bonfire and Fire Recovery) could keep Flamvells alive.
Lavals need a different kind of hit to avoid accidentally dragging Flamvells with them.
[/quote]

Meh, Flamvells are awful anyway. If they rely on Rekindling, then let them die.

Firedog is all Flamvells need anyway to have some sort of impact.

[Expelsword]

Firedog's only gonna get used once or twice before it's in the grave, and without Rekindling, it's basically done once in the grave.
I guess Flamvells could bring Call of the Haunted back into style...

I really do think Rekindling was a mistake in terms of card design though.

Hmm, other FIRE decks... Jurracs, Volcanics, and Evols...
I guess Flamvell Jurracs could swing some stuff even without Rekindling; they do have dinosaurs for Laggia...

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Jurrracs have that one baby dino with 200 DEF that lets you tribute it to SS a different Jurrac from the grave, and it's also a Level 1 Tuner.

[Sunshine Jesse]

[quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1343934285' post='5995482']
Anyone who says ETele should be at 3 is not familiar with TeleDAD...
[/quote]
wat
end of format Tele-DAD decks didn't even run E-Tele @ 3.

@ the list

why so many semi-limits?

I feel like bullshitting a list now since it's that time of year