Coffee Black Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100315041859/yugioh/images/a/a1/Sanwitch-EE3-JP-C.jpg[/img] I want a clear YCM consensus: Does Sangan need to be banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 No. Tour Guide needs to go to 1. Sangan is perfectly fine as is. It's slow-ish without TGU, it makes a single +0 Synchro/+1 Tribute Monster, and unless a deck has a way to bypass the normal summon it used, you gave up a normal summon for a +0 Synch. Most places can't even use him effectively without TGU backing him up. It's badly designed, but it's in no way a threat or game-damaging at 1, on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Classic. Can't be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Welche Alt Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 But Pot f Greed too is a classic and it is banned. That is too foolish an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildflame Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1345166463' post='6008638'] Classic. Can't be banned. [/quote] Pot of Greed is classic too. I have mixed feelings, so I think I will not vote. But clearly this card at 1 and TGU at 3 should not coexist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Sangan might be powerful, but he's only as powerful as the cards that he can search, and he's actually (usually) a slow card. Plus, with the advent of Exceeds, it's actually lost a little bit of power in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Welche Alt Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Pot of Greed is only as powerful as the cards you draw and yet it is well know to be too strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizarus Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yes, ban it. It's been dodging the banlist for years, and during that time, someone has always found a way to abuse Sangan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Black Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1345165701' post='6008621'] No. Tour Guide needs to go to 1. Sangan is perfectly fine as is. It's slow-ish without TGU, it makes a single +0 Synchro/+1 Tribute Monster, and unless a deck has a way to bypass the normal summon it used, you gave up a normal summon for a +0 Synch. Most places can't even use him effectively without TGU backing him up. It's badly designed, but it's in no way a threat or game-damaging at 1, on its own. [/quote] TGU is almost useless at 1; it would only exist for sangan (DW would be the only deck that uses it the same way). Making people run Tour Bus seems kinda bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Coffee Black' timestamp='1345169467' post='6008713'] TGU is almost useless at 1; it would only exist for sangan (DW would be the only deck that uses it the same way). Making people run Tour Bus seems kinda bad [/quote] TGU shouldn't exist AT ALL, so how on earth is "She's useless" change anything? She currently "only exists for Sangan." Oh, and both Fableds and Infernities are decks. why does Tour Guide DESERVE to be tier? And Night Assailant exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Wildflame' timestamp='1345167422' post='6008658'] Pot of Greed is classic too. [/quote] Pot of Greed has been banned practically since the game began. Was Sangan ever banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1345170235' post='6008738'] Was Sangan ever banned?[/quote] On a very early list, if I remember correctly, and Witch was@1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Le Dolan' timestamp='1345168593' post='6008697'] Pot of Greed is only as powerful as the cards you draw and yet it is well know to be too strong. [/quote] Because it's a Spell Card and also lets you add TWO cards to your hand. They are not comparable to one another in terms of effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Black Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1345170065' post='6008729'] TGU shouldn't exist AT ALL, so how on earth is "She's useless" change anything? She currently "only exists for Sangan." Oh, and both Fableds and Infernities are decks. why does Tour Guide DESERVE to be tier? And Night Assailant exists. [/quote] Sounds like you want it banned if you think it should have never been created TGU is a Rank 3 toolbox as well as an instant Sangan. That's it's main function in the game. Saying that it shouldn't exist in my eyes basically says that you hate Xyz; we shouldn't act like a whole game mechanic is bad for the game. TGU is the best card for Xyz right now. Putting it at 2 makes it its only purpose rather than an Xyz + getting the best 1500 or less ATK monster in your deck. I don't think TGU DESERVES to be tier; I just don't think killing it is necessary. And I apoligive for not mentioning Fabelds and Infernities, I was just think about the card in a competitive aspect. I like the fact that it boosts decks that use Fiend monsters. But for this thread, I'm focusing on TGU's competitive use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Coffee Black' timestamp='1345173552' post='6008805'] Sounds like you want it banned if you think it should have never been created TGU is a Rank 3 toolbox as well as an instant Sangan. That's it's main function in the game. Saying that it shouldn't exist in my eyes basically says that you hate Xyz; we shouldn't act like a whole game mechanic is bad for the game. TGU is the best card for Xyz right now. Putting it at 2 makes it its only purpose rather than an Xyz + getting the best 1500 or less ATK monster in your deck. I don't think TGU DESERVES to be tier; I just don't think killing it is necessary. And I apoligive for not mentioning Fabelds and Infernities, I was just think about the card in a competitive aspect. I like the fact that it boosts decks that use Fiend monsters. But for this thread, I'm focusing on TGU's competitive use. [/quote] No, hating on TGU is not saying I hate Rank 3s. There shouldn't be a fairly generic R3 engine. @2, it's still just as usable as it was before. @1, it's fiend deck only unless people start running Sangan + Night Assailant with it. No matter it's amount, it's terrible design. You shouldn't be able to normal summon an Xyz, ever. I doubt it'll ever be banned, but that doesn't mean it's a valid argument to Sangan being banworthy. That's like saying "Broken card X abuses broken card Y, so ban card Y so card X can't abuse it." unlike Wind-up Hunter, Sangan has other uses, whereas TGU has more targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Welche Alt Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 They are however comparable in so far as needing other cards to be good. Sangan is only as good as what it can search but it can search so much and so it is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Le Dolan' timestamp='1345175040' post='6008831'] They are however comparable in so far as needing other cards to be good. Sangan is only as good as what it can search but it can search so much and so it is good. [/quote] You don't have to draw into amazing cards for Pot of Greed to be a major bonus. You can draw into crappy cards and it's still a good card to drop compared to not dropping it at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Welche Alt Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Perhaps Graceful Charity is a better example then? Last Will? Painful Choice? Trap Dustshoot? Many many cards are only good based on what other cards they can give you or interact with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 It's hardly [i]ever[/i] a disadvantage to draw cards, because even if you don't draw cards that help you, you saved X Draw Phases getting to those cards and may be able to save yourself next turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Black Posted August 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1345174326' post='6008819'] No, hating on TGU is not saying I hate Rank 3s. There shouldn't be a fairly generic R3 engine. @2, it's still just as usable as it was before. @1, it's fiend deck only unless people start running Sangan + Night Assailant with it. No matter it's amount, it's terrible design. You shouldn't be able to normal summon an Xyz, ever. I doubt it'll ever be banned, but that doesn't mean it's a valid argument to Sangan being banworthy. That's like saying "Broken card X abuses broken card Y, so ban card Y so card X can't abuse it." unlike Wind-up Hunter, Sangan has other uses, whereas TGU has more targets. [/quote] Why is a Rank 3 toolbox so terrible? One of the biggest parts of the game right now is abusing Xyz; many competitive decks are made with the intent to make Xyzing consistent and easy. Killing the card because it's the best at Xyzing doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In making this thread, I realized many people only think that Sangan is good because of TGU, which is quite controversial. My opinion is that Sangan is extremely helpful to decks that depend on having a low level card kick start their strategy. Many, many decks and strategies fall into this category. In a way, Sangan by itself makes all those decks much faster and consistent. Yes, TGU makes Sangan a better card. But Sangan is a hell of a card without TGU as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Coffee Black' timestamp='1345178549' post='6008887'] Why is a Rank 3 toolbox so terrible? One of the biggest parts of the game right now is abusing Xyz; many competitive decks are made with the intent to make Xyzing consistent and easy. Killing the card because it's the best at Xyzing doesn't seem like a legitimate reason. In making this thread, I realized many people only think that Sangan is good because of TGU, which is quite controversial. My opinion is that Sangan is extremely helpful to decks that depend on having a low level card kick start their strategy. Many, many decks and strategies fall into this category. In a way, Sangan by itself makes all those decks much faster and consistent. Yes, TGU makes Sangan a better card. But Sangan is a hell of a card without TGU as well. [/quote] Why is keeping it a legit reason? Being able to Normal Summon an Xyz is God awful design, and the fact that you get a mill along with it is stupid. Have you read Leviair? 17? Zenmaines? Temtempo? Acid Golem? That is WAY too good to be able to normal summon any of them at will, and get a Sangan mill with it. Just because Xyz are the current focus of the game, as a whole, does not mean a generic Rank 3 engine is in any way good and should exist. And I still think Sangan is good without TGU, I just don't think it's insanely good at 1. I could be wrong, but I don't really see it as a problem card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhat Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Tour Guide is not mean because it gives you a Rank 3 Xyz Monster. Tour Guide is mean because it is DARK, gives you a Rank 3 Xyz Monster from a single card with no setup, and searches a couple of important cards. I have mixed feelings about Sangan. It rewards extending your field, but it doesn't reward you for an Xyz Summon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1345170235' post='6008738'] Pot of Greed has been banned practically since the game began. Was Sangan ever banned? [/quote]Sangan was banned for one format. September 2004. Because Invasion of Chaos came out. In other words, it was banned because of YataLock. Pot of Greed however, wasn't banned until September of the following year. 3 years after the game began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 Ok, ok. But was Pot of Greed ever at more than 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted August 17, 2012 Report Share Posted August 17, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1345180589' post='6008925'] Ok, ok. But was Pot of Greed ever at more than 1? [/quote]Not that I am aware of. It was @1 on the very first banlist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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