Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347318504' post='6022837'] Then the deck does absolutely nothing..... [/quote] Or maybe does it do exactly what it was supposed to do in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted September 10, 2012 Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1347307312' post='6022689'] It also has too much defense for an effect like that.[/quote] Giant Rat's DEF is 14[i]50[/i], when the other Attribute searchers have 1400ATK. Except that's hardly relevant. GK Spy cant go into a Spy, then another Spy. Its Summon is rather limited. Attribute Searches, on the other hand, actually can. Also, GKs hardly use any Graveyard revival(nobody runs Chief, or that other card), so its not like getting a bunch of Spys would be [i]that[/i] dangerous. I dunno', something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted September 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2012 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1347318798' post='6022841'] Or maybe does it do exactly what it was supposed to do in the first place? [/quote] Be horrible? The deck at its core is an exceed toolbox. Shark creates all the exceed plays. Putting shark at 0 just makes the deck a bad gimmick filled with terrible stand alone monsters. Look at all the original wind-up cards (not the tcg exclusives) ....they are all terrible by themselves...when Shark was printed the deck actually became playable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 If you limited Magician the deck would be tame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347320448' post='6022859'] Be horrible? The deck at its core is an exceed toolbox. Shark creates all the exceed plays. Putting shark at 0 just makes the deck a bad gimmick filled with terrible stand alone monsters. Look at all the original wind-up cards (not the tcg exclusives) ....they are all terrible by themselves...when Shark was printed the deck actually became playable. [/quote] They have plenty of cards that can make themselves level 5, level 3, or control the field. It's just like with every other thing, though, that unless it can spam like a demon it goes nowhere. That's the sad reality of this game. It can't be slow at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1347324426' post='6022913'] They have plenty of cards that can make themselves level 5, level 3, or control the field. It's just like with every other thing, though, that unless it can spam like a demon it goes nowhere. That's the sad reality of this game. It can't be slow at all. [/quote] Pretty much...in a slower format the other cards would be playable...but with the current game state..they are terrible so the deck needs the speed of Shark to actually do anything. Any player would tell you..if you don't draw Shark or have a way to search it out you basically lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347324782' post='6022920'] Pretty much...in a slower format the other cards would be playable...but with the current game state..they are terrible so the deck needs the speed of Shark to actually do anything. Any player would tell you..if you don't draw Shark or have a way to search it out you basically lose. [/quote] Rat-Rabbit is a pretty okay combo, too. Though it doesn't really generate advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I say we kill Wind-Ups for a few formats before giving them back Shark and Magician. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347326259' post='6022938'] I say we kill Wind-Ups for a few formats before giving them back Shark and Magician. [/quote] It's too soon to decided if they should be killed off. They topped one event since the format started mostly because everyone ran it at it Toronto. (I'm being slightly bias of course) And I [b]STILL[/b] find it hilarious how everyone went from saying the deck is bad to "BAN ALL THE WIND-UPS" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347327997' post='6022963'] It's too soon to decided if they should be killed off. They topped one event since the format started mostly because everyone ran it at it Toronto. (I'm being slightly bias of course) And I [b]STILL[/b] find it hilarious how everyone went from saying the deck is bad to "BAN ALL THE WIND-UPS" [/quote]They're going to keep topping. Don't even act like that won't happen. The deck's history will have been: September 2011 List: Hand Rape Loop in the last month March 2012 List: Hand Rape Loop and a YCS win September 2012: YCS win and Inevitably more The hand rape loop was enough for me to think the deck should disappear for a few formats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347326259' post='6022938'] I say we kill Wind-Ups for a few formats before giving them back Shark and Magician. [/quote] how is shark even a problem when magician would theoretically be at 1 the problem with windups is that magician can get magician... which leads to dumb plays involving zenmaister, papillo, shock master, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='βyakk' timestamp='1347330004' post='6022977'] how is shark even a problem when magician would theoretically be at 1 the problem with windups is that magician can get magician... which leads to dumb plays involving zenmaister, papillo, shock master, etc.. [/quote]You misinterpret me. I don't want to make them not broken. I want to make them unplayable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Griffin Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1347307312' post='6022689'] I actually don't think Spy is particularly good design. Tomato is different in that there are more ways to make the efforts to take advantage of it go south (that and it's a +0), but there are very few ways to stop Spy from giving you a free monster. It also has too much defense for an effect like that. [img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120616113861/yugioh/images/a/a5/MagicDrain-BP01-EN-C-1E.png[/img] I'd love it if more cards were designed like this one, in the sense that the opponent essentially gets to choose the cost, balance priorities with cards, etc. [/quote] One of the game's best designed cards. +1, need more of this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347330041' post='6022979'] You misinterpret me. [b]I don't want to make them not broken. I want to make them unplayable.[/b] [/quote] So you're just being unreasonable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347330427' post='6022985'] So you're just being unreasonable? [/quote]They had a loop that could win the duel before the opponent could even make a move. I don't need to be reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted September 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Key word there is [b]HAD[/b]...stop being a cry baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347336077' post='6023065'] Key word there is [b]HAD[/b]...stop being a cry baby. [/quote]Now they have a 2 card loop that pluses like f*cking crazy. Not like much has changed. Even if hitting one card will kill them enough for them to stop being stupid, I feel like they've done enough stupid to warrant a TeleBAN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1347336077' post='6023065'] Key word there is [b]HAD[/b]...stop being a cry baby. [/quote] And your a fanboy, you can't claim to be unbiased here They are definitely OP still, and probably will be hit again in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347338371' post='6023079']Even if hitting one card will kill them enough for them to stop being stupid, I feel like they've done enough stupid to warrant a TeleBAN. [/quote] What happened to controlled hits? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpectralMaliceX Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 I'd will be using wind ups now with my own little twists, they no longer seem as cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Shark to 0, keep the magicians. They are still playable but no longer AS playable (inb4: Magician/Rat+Foolish combo since it's not as consistent anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1347359417' post='6023139'] What happened to controlled hits? [/quote]lolrestraint [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1347373998' post='6023205'] Shark to 0, keep the magicians. They are still playable but no longer AS playable (inb4: Magician/Rat+Foolish combo since it's not as consistent anyway). [/quote]That'd put them about where they were before. Which is fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1347375285' post='6023213'] That'd put them about where they were before. Which is fine by me. [/quote] That was basically the point. The loop is not as easy to preform, they would require a bit more player to player interaction and would still be competitive as a hybrid engine (inb4atlanteans). They have as much Xyz Flexibility as Glad Beasts have being a form of anti-meta, which is good but not in excess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 Only good combo i can think of with no shark is banish rabbit,wait next turn,NSummon magician and banish rabbit again for a free rank 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted September 11, 2012 Report Share Posted September 11, 2012 The fact that they're doing so well makes me laugh at those who said "lolban Hunter problem solved". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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