May now be locked - The Original Chance Format

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='♥ D.A._Siegfried ♥' timestamp='1353991622' post='6078993']
I'm still not seeing how any of those reason makes it ban worthy.

And also, there are ways to keep it in game with it's effects but still balance it. Why not just give it a clause were it can't attack or use it's effect the turn it gets summoned?
[/quote]
Give an exception to a SINGLE card, just because you want to use it? Try and give a reason why it's a balanced card.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1353991775' post='6078996']
Give an exception to a SINGLE card, just because you want to use it? Try and give a reason why it's a balanced card.
[/quote]
It doesn't have to just be that one card you know. And yes you do know that but decided to attack me.

Also where have I once said "I" wanted to use it? I don't touch Chaos at all because I don't like running decks I don't like.

It's balanced because it's at 1.

[Sleepy]

[quote name='♥ D.A._Siegfried ♥' timestamp='1353991622' post='6078993']
I'm still not seeing how any of those reason makes it ban worthy.

And also, there are ways to keep it in game with it's effects but still balance it. Why not just give it a clause were it can't attack or use it's effect the turn it gets summoned?
[/quote]

Unlike Konami's way of selecting what goes in a list, my points above are not just limited to "it's doing well", but rather, we have a change that doubles our number of limited cards in use in a deck, upcoming pretty soon. It is wise to prepare since it will at least double the possibility of seeing it around.

Not to mention saying "X card is only broken if you use it in X deck" is not valid. If there's a single deck that makes BLS a load of bull, it won't help that BLS cannot be used in something like Madolches.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

even if you ignore the fact that more people could choose to run chaos decks because BLS is limited, theres the fact that its stupidly splashable. decks that have no real reason to run it but have plenty of light and dark monsters can throw one in and expect to have a 3k monster thats easy to summon and has not one but two very good effects for a monster.

i may not have played chance's format but BLS makes the game more uncompetitive, and since the goal of this format is to make lesser used decks more viable, i think it should be banned personally.

[Sleepy]

[quote name='clairedestroyer' timestamp='1353992782' post='6079006']
even if you ignore the fact that more people could choose to run chaos decks because BLS is limited, theres the fact that its stupidly splashable. decks that have no real reason to run it but have plenty of light and dark monsters can throw one in and expect to have a 3k monster thats easy to summon and has not one but two very good effects for a monster.

i may not have played chance's format but BLS makes the game more uncompetitive, and since the goal of this format is to make lesser used decks more viable, i think it should be banned personally.
[/quote]

Well, to be fair, it's only balancing factor here, is that you would usually have to give up your right to use Dark Hole, Heavy, or anything else that is limited in exchange for him. A gamble that he lost to other cards most of the time. Though this upcoming tournament is not simply doubling Limited spots in a deck, but the choice is between a more staple-like half of the list, and the other half in which this might become more of a priority depending on what it contains (but not staple-ish like cards).

So yeah... I agree.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

Okay allow me to let you in on how my mind set works towards cards.

First off, BLS. Do I agree that it's incredibly powerful yes. Would I ever remotely add it to a deck that could run it. No
Why? Cause it's garbage in my eyes. Not because it's broken or any of that nonsense but because it's not my cup of tea.

Simple put, I don't run things no matter how good they are because I know that they wont fit with my play style. This same reason applies to playing cards like book of moon or F. Lance. Those cards are just garbage to me.

I also, don't run decks I don't like unless I'm forced to I.E. the current to soon to be ending Tourny.

So really, no matter how many arguments you throw at me on why it should be banned or how good it is or any of that. I simply wont care in the slightest. Just how it's going to be.

[Sleepy]

[quote name='♥ D.A._Siegfried ♥' timestamp='1353993314' post='6079013']
Okay allow me to let you in on how my mind set works towards cards.

First off, BLS. Do I agree that it's incredibly powerful yes. Would I ever remotely add it to a deck that could run it. No
Why? Cause it's garbage in my eyes. Not because it's broken or any of that nonsense but because it's not my cup of tea.

Simple put, I don't run things no matter how good they are because I know that they wont fit with my play style. This same reason applies to playing cards like book of moon or F. Lance. Those cards are just garbage to me.

I also, don't run decks I don't like unless I'm forced to I.E. the current to soon to be ending Tourny.

So really, no matter how many arguments you throw at me on why it should be banned or how good it is or any of that. I simply wont care in the slightest. Just how it's going to be.
[/quote]

I know where you are coming from. I personally DID refuse to ever run Heavy Storm during the first entire 4 years of my playing the game (I've been playing for 10 years), mainly because I thought it was too boring to use such an easy way out, and I ran a Dark Magician Deck that essentially had 3 S/T hate cards.
Though the argument is merely about you liking it or not.

The fact here is, even if you refuse to run it (and I can respect your not wanting to), we still have a dozen other players with different mentalities and styles that ARE willing to use it, should the chance appear, because truth be told, it's a stupidly good card.

The list is not how a single person doesn't like a card's potential recognition, because if that one person doesn't care, there still are a lot more people that do, and DO have their fun ruined by things like this.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

[quote name='♥ D.A._Siegfried ♥' timestamp='1353993314' post='6079013']
Okay allow me to let you in on how my mind set works towards cards.

First off, BLS. Do I agree that it's incredibly powerful yes. Would I ever remotely add it to a deck that could run it. No
Why? Cause it's garbage in my eyes. Not because it's broken or any of that nonsense but because it's not my cup of tea.

Simple put, I don't run things no matter how good they are because I know that they wont fit with my play style. This same reason applies to playing cards like book of moon or F. Lance. Those cards are just garbage to me.

I also, don't run decks I don't like unless I'm forced to I.E. the current to soon to be ending Tourny.

So really, no matter how many arguments you throw at me on why it should be banned or how good it is or any of that. I simply wont care in the slightest. Just how it's going to be.
[/quote]

if you dont care either way then why consistently argue for its inclusion? if you dont want to use it then it doesnt affect YOU at all if its banned, and everyone else is pretty much in agreement. is it some principle thing? playing devil's advocate?

im not trying to be aggressive here, i am just incredibly confused atm and im hoping you can clear this up for me.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Just because you don't like to use a card, or just because it's already Limited, is not a reason for it to not be banned. Being Limited does not make it any weaker of a card than it already is. It just means you're less likely to draw it. If Pot of Greed, for example, were limited, would it not be overpowered?

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='clairedestroyer' timestamp='1353994606' post='6079025']
if you dont care either way then why consistently argue for its inclusion? if you dont want to use it then it doesnt affect YOU at all if its banned, and everyone else is pretty much in agreement. is it some principle thing? playing devil's advocate?

im not trying to be aggressive here, i am just incredibly confused atm and im hoping you can clear this up for me.
[/quote]

Because I may not care about ever using the card other people might want to use it. Having it banned prevents that. Not to mention the card has not made nearly the presence it has made in the normal format.
[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1353995695' post='6079031']
Just because you don't like to use a card, or just because it's already Limited, is not a reason for it to not be banned. Being Limited does not make it any weaker of a card than it already is. It just means you're less likely to draw it. If Pot of Greed, for example, were limited, would it not be overpowered?
[/quote]
Not really no. In fact imo it's probably the only banned card I would even start to consider to be allowed at one in Chance format.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Pot of Greed by itself is a +1 IN ANY deck. Free +s like that are bad mechanics. WORK for your +s. BLS has too many faulties that make it an abusable card at any given point and shielding the card can be moderate to easy to do. Forbidden equipment is pretty amazing you know?

As for exodia...well I already expressed my opinion on the votes

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1354030859' post='6079172']
Pot of Greed by itself is a +1 IN ANY deck. Free +s like that are bad mechanics. WORK for your +s. BLS has too many faulties that make it an abusable card at any given point and shielding the card can be moderate to easy to do. Forbidden equipment is pretty amazing you know?

As for exodia...well I already expressed my opinion on the votes
[/quote]
I think I'v made it pretty clear what side I'm on.

That being said, I'm on the side that while understands that a card can be broken by design but if it makes no impact on the meta then it isn't broken enough to be hit. In other words. I feel the meta is what dictates what is truly broken at the time.

Yes PoG is a free +1 but when you compare to many of the other banned cards its far more balanced. Hell even Cyber Stein is actually not to bad of a card in this format when you think about the Summoning Sickness.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Comparing banned cards with banned cards is kinda bad because you tend to just reach the statement that 1 is more banned than the other .-.

Compare JD to Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End and you'll see why you can't take Konami's method of hitting cards seriously.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1354036148' post='6079220']
Comparing banned cards with banned cards is kinda bad because you tend to just reach the statement that 1 is more banned than the other .-.

Compare JD to Chaos Emperor Dragon - Envoy of the End and you'll see why you can't take Konami's method of hitting cards seriously.
[/quote]
But CED-EotE is far more broken in just about every way then JD dragon. The only big difference is that JD stays on the field.

And how is it bad? With PoG, you give of up something like Dark Hole or Heavy for more consistanty.

[Aerion Brightflame]

JD is broken, beuase it's spamable... And then forces your opponent to take another 3k each turn. Then no matter what they set, or play, JD blows away the turn after. All the while doing grave set up.

CED was broken becuase it simply left your opponent with nothing for almost no cost. Oh and that Yata lock. Which was worse than Inzectors...

BLS should be banned in my view, becuase Main Deck monster have become far more powerful, and BLS will realistically win the game in the turn its summoned. Either killing anything that could kill it, or gaining huge plus's for no effort.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I wasn't comparing PoG to BLS, I was just saying that you can't say that a card is balanced just because it's at 1.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Okay, I'm back, and I'm looking at something interesting. With all seriousness...I want to know why 2 of you guys want to have Exodia viable XP

[Sleepy]

[quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1354046158' post='6079329']
Okay, I'm back, and I'm looking at something interesting. With all seriousness...I want to know why 2 of you guys want to have Exodia viable XP
[/quote]

I didn't vote for that option, but I'd imagine that, if it's not top tier IRL, it has less reason to be so here, where all it's drawing cards being reduced to 2 per deck.
We can aknowlege that it's a legit deck that can deserve to be there for the ones that wanna build it, although I personally see it as pretty boring and uninteractive.
FTK is solitaire at light speed.
Stall is.... my playstyle in decks is to take hits and give them back and have fun with the exchange, I really hate when someone just defends until a win-condition appears, because half my deck that's defensive becomes useless, and the offensive is nulled because that's the point of stalling. Of course, this last one is a personal opinion and definitely NOT a real point.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Exodia is even worse in this format than it was in previous, and it's not like anyone is actually going to play it anyways. If they did, they would more than likely lose. If it ends up being a problem, which I don't think it will, we can remove it.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

To be fair, In regards to exodia. The reason I even mentioned it was because of Primal Seed. You can't treat a useless card one way and not treat a useless card(s) another way.

Meaning, putting Primal Seed at 3 does nothing to the game cause it can't even be used. Similarly, keeping all the non-head exodia pieces at 1 which are in of themselves useless contradicts having primal seed at three.

Hopefully finally, you'll understand what I'v been trying to get at this whole time in regards to that topic.

As for allowing exodia to be played. Eh, I don't care either way. It's fun to play and funner to play against but I can live without it.

Slayer, when I say it's balanced cause it's at 1 I mean because of the restrictions of how many limited/Semi-limited cards we can we have that plays a factor into the balancing issues.

So when we make a deck, we have to ask are selves if adding a very powerful boss is really worth adding to the deck when it takes up a very important slot were we could be adding something that does more overall.

[Strider Tigerwolf]

I understand the Exodia part. I'm not convinced at the BLS arguments you keep putting though.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1354048446' post='6079379']
I understand the Exodia part. I'm not convinced at the BLS arguments you keep putting though.
[/quote]

Let me try and put it simply.

If a card isn't used in favor of something else overall it can't show presence in the meta. If it doesn't show presence in the meta it can't be considered broken. If it can't be considered broken then it can't be hit.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

as has been explained previously, BLS WILL impact this format's meta. its a main deck boss that doesnt get summoning sickness like extra deck monsters, can run over the majority of extra deck staples, and can banish those it cant. it doesnt really matter if you lose a staple slot for it. theres less effective replacements for staples that can mitigate that. the fact of the matter is that the rules of this format are unfairly biased towards BLS, especially since many cards that in the official meta that can get rid of it will be limited or semi-limited in this format.

also stop using primal seed as a reason it shouldnt be banned. 1) diamond dude still exists so if someone wanted to run a ddt deck they have the option to use it 2) even if no one does that, id rather lose a decent utility card to keep a broken piece of junk out then have both.

[D.A._Sakuyamon]

[quote name='clairedestroyer' timestamp='1354059051' post='6079543']
as has been explained previously, BLS WILL impact this format's meta. its a main deck boss that doesnt get summoning sickness like extra deck monsters, can run over the majority of extra deck staples, and can banish those it cant. it doesnt really matter if you lose a staple slot for it. theres less effective replacements for staples that can mitigate that. the fact of the matter is that the rules of this format are unfairly biased towards BLS, especially since many cards that in the official meta that can get rid of it will be limited or semi-limited in this format.

also stop using primal seed as a reason it shouldnt be banned. 1) diamond dude still exists so if someone wanted to run a ddt deck they have the option to use it 2) even if no one does that, id rather lose a decent utility card to keep a broken piece of junk out then have both.
[/quote]
What? The Primal Seed thing is an entirely different topic. If BLS stays/gets banned I don't think Primal Seed should be unlimited. It does nothing for the game. And having it unlimited while Exodie can't be used at all at staying at one is contradictory to that. So to prevent the contradiction just ban the head and unlimit the other pieces.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

i cant tell its a different topic because you keep bringing it up when talking about BLS and frankly you are not a very effective communicator. who cares if you think its a contradiction? you yourself keep saying you dont actually care either way about any of these cards yet keep insisting everyone listen to you and only you when youre the only person arguing for BLS to not be banned. i really dont understand what youre trying to prove here besides something about "the meta" which if you had your way would be negatively impacted.


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