Photon Martyt (Just cuz I'm bored)

[wero-vasto]

I love Photon monsters so I made a card for them, maybe OPed but should speed the Deck a little.

[center][img]http://i.imgur.com/UtE4h.jpg[/img][/center]


[center]LIGHT[/center]
[center]*[/center]
[center]Fairy / Effect[/center]
[center]You can banish this card from your Graveyard: Special Summon up to 2 "Photon" or "Galaxy" monsters with 2000 or more ATK from your Deck. Monster(s) Summoned by this effect cannot declare an attack. During the End Phase: Banish the monster(s) Summoned with this effect; take damage equal to the combined monsters ATK. The effect of "Photon Martyr" can only be activated once per turn.[/center]
[center]0 / 0[/center]


[center]Anyway, my OCG maybe a little off... so help is appreciated.[/center]

[Alpakha]

Restrict it to Photon monsters, other wise it's o'ped. It's basically a rabbit without normal monster restriction, but this is slightly harder to pull off. It can be easily dumped in grave to fuse for photon twin lizard (if you run it). Put the restrictions and it should be fine. Also, graveyard should be capitalized.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

So basically: Foolish this, use it's effect, SS 2 Level 6~8 and then summon a giant "F**k you" sign to your field.

Way. Too. Imbalanced.

I suppose you can make it restricted to Photons or Galaxies and make it so that you can only make Photon or Galaxies Xyzs to stop ridiculous abuse. Mind you, Photons already summon rank 8s easily enough to make at least 1 Destiny Leo each duel. But with those changes, this should be fun be fine.

[Alpakha]

[quote name='★Toyo-tan★' timestamp='1351843609' post='6059256']
So basically: Foolish this, use it's effect, SS 2 Level 6~8 and then summon a giant "F**k you" sign to your field.

Way. Too. Imbalanced.

I suppose you can make it restricted to Photons or Galaxies and make it so that you can only make Photon or Galaxies Xyzs to stop ridiculous abuse. Mind you, Photons already summon rank 8s easily enough to make at least 1 Destiny Leo each duel. But with those changes, this should be fun be fine.
[/quote]

>.< I basically just said that, but I didn;t mention foolish.

[newhat]

This badly needs some kind of restriction. Even if it were limited to just Photon monsters it's still a free Rank 3-8 monster with very little setup or cost involved.

[Sora1499]

Hierarics have a new plaything: ditch this, banish, summon 2 hieratics, tribute both for Su or nebeth, get +s, XYZ into Atum and a miscellaneous rank 6, search red-eyes with atum, you now have game. Evols can finally use the solda build: ditch this, special summon 2 copies of that really big 2.4k dinosaur guy, XYZ into solda. Evilswarms can spam 2 copies of Golem, field-wipe, go for Tiras, you basically have game. This has already been said, but please make a restriction for photons. Even if you do, do photons really need a rank 8-spamming rabbit? I don't think so. I don't like this card.

[Alpakha]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1351878105' post='6059548']
This badly needs some kind of restriction. Even if it were limited to just Photon monsters it's still a free Rank 3-8 monster with very little setup or cost involved.
[/quote]

If it's restricted to Photon/Galaxy, it wouldn't be badly broken. It would be semi'd or limited at worst. Photons/Galaxy can already easily get a rank 8 out on first turn, this would help to make a comeback .

[newhat]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1351897299' post='6059832']
If it's restricted to Photon/Galaxy, it wouldn't be badly broken. It would be semi'd or limited at worst. Photons/Galaxy can already easily get a rank 8 out on first turn, this would help to make a comeback .
[/quote]

Galaxy Wizard into Expedition into GEPD is a -1 Rank 8. Thrasher or Galaxy Zero into Galaxy Knight into GEPD is a -0 that requires some setup. This is a +1, from the Graveyard, without using up the Normal Summon, and not just for Rank 8. And to me "broken" doesn't translate to "Forbidden"; I think Honest and Monster Reborn are broken which is why KONAMI doesn't let you use three.

[wero-vasto]

Thanks for your comments guys, I've made some changes like you suggested.

[Blake]

It's... incredibly bad design.

It's like a "Rescue" beast on crack, from the Graveyard. It's a One for One target and a Photon Satellite target, so getting it in the grave is no problem at all. You can just grab any 2 Photons with 2000+ ATK, resulting in assorted plays from Ranks 4 to 8 being made possible in exchange for this being in the Grave. There's no cost and you pull 2 big beatsticks from the deck and immediately use them either to Xyz or as Galaxy-Eyes Fuel.

Special Summoning from the Deck is a mechanic that shouldn't be touched more often than not. Things like Giant Rat are fine, things like Rescue Rabbit and Emergency Teleport are not. You shouldn't even try to make something remotely similar to the latter 2, as it will end up either badly designed in a broken sense or badly designed in an unplayable sense.

If you're looking to support Galaxy-Eyes itself, add that the monsters summoned by it can't be used as Xyz, Synchro, or Fusion material, and that they can't tributed except for the summon of a "Galaxy" or "Photon" monster.

[Alpakha]

[quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1351902600' post='6059885']
If you're looking to support Galaxy-Eyes itself, add that the monsters summoned by it can't be used as Xyz, Synchro, or Fusion material, and that they can't tributed except for the summon of a "Galaxy" or "Photon" monster.
[/quote]

With that effect it's close to useless, because photon sanctuary already does that job with no set up. How about you change it so that the monsters can only be used for an xyz summon of a photon/galaxy monster, also have the monster not be able to attack that turn. That should balance it out.

[Blake]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1351903153' post='6059895']
With that effect it's useless. How about you change it so that the monsters can only be used for an xyz summon of a photon/galaxy monster, also have the monster not be able to attack that turn. That should balance it out.
[/quote]
It's not useless, it just serves an express point. Fueling GEPD and, should they have it, Photon Kaiser.

Besides, allowing it to Xyz at all leaves it open to being broken. You gave up a single attack... So what? Things like Gaia Dragon the Thunder Charger exist and more are sure to come.

Also, to illustrate how flawed your idea is: The set up in this scenario is Martyr and GEPD in Grave with Galaxy Knight in hand.
Use Martyr, get 2 Photons from Deck. Summon knight, revive Galaxy-Eyes. Congrats, you have a field of a +1 Xyz and a +0 Xyz for a 1 card investment.

Not to mention your idea limits the card design, makign the "Photon" Xyz they'd release be subject to "BUT WHAT IF IT'S ABUSED BY MARTYR." this card's not real, but should still be viewed with a realistic design perspective.

Honestly, the card's borrowing from broken ideas, and it's gonna be badly designed no matter how much we nerf it without destroying it. Thus, we must make it as subtle as possible.

[Alpakha]

[quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1351903731' post='6059900']
Also, to illustrate how flawed your idea is: The set up in this scenario is Martyr and GEPD in Grave with Galaxy Knight in hand.
Use Martyr, get 2 Photons from Deck. Summon knight, revive Galaxy-Eyes. Congrats, you have a field of a +1 Xyz and a +0 Xyz for a 1 card investment.
[/quote]

You're using this combo to prove that it's broken? It's not exactly easy for a photon/galaxy deck to send their cards to the grave. That would require at least a couple of turns of set up, and you would still need to draw the necessary card.

Badly designed=/= broken. Rabbit is badly designed and broken because of all the xyz's it has assess too. Look at salvage, bad design but it's balanced because most of it's targets aren't that great (not completely sure about this though, with all the new water support). Sure this card has a bad design, but that doesn't make it broken. It current effect is slightly o'ped, but that can be remedied.

I'll admit exaggerated a bit when i said that the effect you offered was useless.

[Blake]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1351904417' post='6059913']
You're using this combo to prove that it's broken? It's not exactly easy for a photon/galaxy deck to send their cards to the grave. That would require at least a couple of turns of set up, and you would still need to draw the necessary card. I exaggerated a bit when i said useless. Badly designed=/= broken. Rabbit is badly designed and broken because of all the xyz's it has assess too. Look at salvage, bad design but it's balanced because most of it's targets aren't that great (not completely sure about this though, with all the new water support). Sure this card has a bad design, but that doesn't make it broken. It current effect is slightly o'ped, but that can be remedied.
[/quote]
I never said it was broken, and people really need to learn to read since they always assume I say such. I said it was badly designed. And badly designed cards have a tendency to swing far to the worthless side or far to the broken side. Just because it's not broken now how you want it doesn't mean it won't be broken sometime. While you can't predict if it will be or not, you can nip bad design in the bud, which is why you shouldn't make exploitable cards like this in the first place.

It takes no effort to set this up. At all. It takes One for One, Foolish Burial, Accel Light or just setting it because you dead drew it. It works with Photon Satellite (Who is also a One for One target), and even a single copy is recyclable, even if not in a convenient manner for Photons at the moment. It thins the deck by 2 for a +1 Xyz from nowhere. If it takes being a +1 Xyz to make it usable, it deserves to not be made.

Any and all credibility your argument held was shattered the moment you acted like Salvage justified this being badly design.

[Alpakha]

[quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1351903731' post='6059900']
allowing it to Xyz at all leaves it open to being broken.
[/quote]

You should have been more clear?

[quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1351905040' post='6059918']
you acted like Salvage justified this being badly design.
[/quote]

That was an example of a badly designed but balanced card. It has nothing else to do with my arguement

[Blake]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1351906094' post='6059930']
You should have been more clear?

That was an example of a badly designed but balanced card. It has nothing else to do with my arguement
[/quote]
No, you should learn context. It should be obvious when I made a point of how much it allows in the way of Xyzing. Leaving it open to Synchros and Fusions is also a bad idea, due to the fact that it's a deck thinning +2 from the grave, and the only way to remotely "balance" that is to end without any advantage gain from it.

And you missed my point. Saying that a badly design card exists and is "balanced" does not mean that another badly designed card should exist. That's as bad as the argument that dragons deserve even 1 Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

I have to say, this card is broken AND badly designed. Free +1s without any prior setup is rarely good design and is usually broken. Although AznKvn has a point about how Salvage is badly designed but not broken due to it's lack of good targets. I personally believe that there are 2 types of broken cards; Cards which are broken either due to support or other third party cards that can abuse it. Rescue Rabbit is an example of this. And then, there are cards which are just broken in conception, like this particular one. It's a +1, okay, that's forgivable but then, it's targets are insane. It makes Rank 5~8 like crazy and worst of all, all this requires no setup.

You know what, I think the only way to make this balanced is to make it so that you cannot special summon monsters other than "Photon" or "Galaxy" monsters the turn the effect is used. Just my 2 cents

[Alpakha]

[quote name='★Toyo-tan★' timestamp='1351907116' post='6059943']
I personally believe that there are 2 types of broken cards; Cards which are broken either due to support or other third party cards that can abuse it. Rescue Rabbit is an example of this. And then, there are cards which are just broken in conception, like this particular one. It's a +1, okay, that's forgivable but then, it's targets are insane.

You know what, I think the only way to make this balanced is to make it so that you cannot special summon monsters other than "Photon" or "Galaxy" monsters the turn the effect is used. Just my 2 cents
[/quote]


This.

Although, it kinda does require set up (even if a tiny amount), as there no consistent for photons/galaxy to send cards to grave.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

[quote name='AznKvn' timestamp='1351907330' post='6059947']
Although, it kinda does require set up (even if a tiny amount), as there no consistent for photons/galaxy to send cards to grave.
[/quote]

Foolish Buria and other "Send to grave from deck" cards barely count as set up.

[Sora1499]

Toyo and Black are correct: card has shitty stupidbroke design, and even with the photon/galaxy restriction, card is still stupidbroke. You can just summon 2 copies of galaxy-eyes and go for heliopolis or thunder end in 1 turn, basically for free. You could balance this card (ish) by restricting its targets to level 5/6 and lower photn/galaxy monsters, but even then you can just spam bounzer, ptolemys, sword breaker, etc. out of nowhere. Also, @ Black Reborn, you get a like for Gurren Lagann, Row row fight the powah!!!

[Alpakha]

[quote name='★Toyo-tan★' timestamp='1351907462' post='6059948']
Foolish Buria and other "Send to grave from deck" cards barely count as set up.
[/quote]

I said a tiny amount, didn't I? Also foolish and 141 are both limited. But whatever, when 3-4 people say I'm wrong then I am. Backing out of conversation.