Blake Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1352480393' post='6064805'] Once again. I am not saying that the card sucks. I am saying that the SECOND effect sucks. The first and second effect are not the same. They are on the same card, but not the same effect. I am not comparing Jar of Greed or Pot of Greed. Just because the effect exists on the same card does not make it a good effect. [/quote] Once again, you're not understanding that you cannot say an effect sucks unless you consider how the effect is applied, what it costs, and the like. You can't just say "Popping 1 card to pop another" is broken or shitty because it depends on how its applied. When the effect is a +0 negation from the grave, that happens to be connected to something that banishing from the grave means nothing for, it DOES make it a good effect, considering it sits there until you need it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='Reborn Black' timestamp='1352480675' post='6064809'] Once again, you're not understanding that you cannot say an effect sucks unless you consider how the effect is applied, what it costs, and the like. You can't just say "Popping 1 card to pop another" is broken or shitty because it depends on how its applied. When the effect is a +0 negation from the grave, that happens to be connected to something that banishing from the grave means nothing for, it DOES make it a good effect, considering it sits there until you need it. [/quote] It doesn't matter if it's free if it never comes up for use. "Your opponent must discard 1 'Forbidden One' card in their hand" is a horrible effect, even if it's free, because you're never going to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1352480820' post='6064813'] It doesn't matter if it's free if it never comes up for use. "Your opponent must discard 1 'Forbidden One' card in their hand" is a horrible effect, even if it's free, because you're never going to use it. [/quote] Except that's an awful comparison because this effect is actually, you know, useful. It DOES matter that it's free, because it's then tehre in case of needing it. Chump blockers, Evolzars, random Catastor, and a few other things exist. It's a free effect that waits until you need it. IF you don't need it, fine. If you do need it, good. It doesn't suck because it sits there and waits until you need it. Application of an effect is everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Slayer, you're wrong. This card's second effect is good. Takes out any effect monster that may limit your plays and does it whenever you want without issue. Any deck that doesn't want their hand to clog could use this (Like Dark Worlds for Fabled), the only consideration is whether Fiendish Chain is better. This is a pretty cool card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1352485186' post='6064867'] Slayer, you're wrong. This card's second effect is good. Takes out any effect monster that may limit your plays and does it whenever you want without issue. [/quote] If you can use it, sure, it's a good effect. The point is that you're almost never going to find yourself in a situation where you can use it to any effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1352485496' post='6064874'] I'm not wrong. It almost never comes up. [/quote] That doesn't make it bad. And chump blockers like Maestroke, Zenmaines, and sorta Gachi aren't rare. Yes, it's situational... But it sits in the grave until you need it. It's not like a situational card that clogs your draws, as its first effect is extremely live, and can even bait MST at times. It sits in the grave until you have a situation you can use it, and/or scares opponent AWAY from Chump Blockers and the like, as they'll just be shot down for free. Honestly, get your head out of your ass. This is not an effect in a vacuum, it's an effect that's gonna be there when you need it, provided you drew it/milled it. And, like said, it's even a Chain target for the off chance you need it. You can't say the second effect is bad without factoring in how it's set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Wait, the Banish effect only works during [i]MY[/i] turn? Ehh... Though, aside from that, Veiler in Trap form seems interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1352485496' post='6064874'] I'm not wrong. It almost never comes up. [/quote]Rai-Oh, Zenmaines, Maestroke, Evolzar Laggia, Evolzar Dolkka, Tragoedia, Gachi Gachi Gantetsu, Herald of Perfection, Constellar Pleiades, Photon Strike Bounzer, Tiras, Keeper of Genesis, Dark Mist, Mermail Abyssgaios, Number 39: Utopia, Steelswarm Roach, Heroic Champion - Gandiva, Stardust Dragon, Krebons, Constellar Omega, Archlord Krystia, Ancient Sacred Wyvern, Fabled Unicore, Number 17: Leviathan Dragon, Temtempo the Percussion Djinn, Malefic Stardust Dragon, Elemental HERO The Shining, any non-Synchro Karakuri, Ally of Justice Catastor, Naturia Beast, Naturia Barkion, Naturia Landoise, Shooting Quasar Dragon, Shooting Star Dragon, Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode, T.G. Hyper Librarian, Madolche Puddingcess, White Dragon Ninja, Evilswarm Ophion, Evilswarm Thanatos, Spirit Reaper, Gellenduo. Yeah, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNo.101 S.H. Death Knight Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1352486423' post='6064889'] Rai-Oh, Zenmaines, Maestroke, Evolzar Laggia, Evolzar Dolkka, Tragoedia, Gachi Gachi Gantetsu, Herald of Perfection, Constellar Pleiades, Photon Strike Bounzer, Tiras, Keeper of Genesis, Dark Mist, Mermail Abyssgaios, Number 39: Utopia, Steelswarm Roach, Heroic Champion - Gandiva, Stardust Dragon, Krebons, Constellar Omega, Archlord Krystia, Ancient Sacred Wyvern, Fabled Unicore, Number 17: Leviathan Dragon, Temtempo the Percussion Djinn, Malefic Stardust Dragon, Elemental HERO The Shining, any non-Synchro Karakuri, Ally of Justice Catastor, Naturia Beast, Naturia Barkion, Naturia Landoise, Shooting Quasar Dragon, Shooting Star Dragon, Stardust Dragon/Assault Mode, T.G. Hyper Librarian, Madolche Puddingcess, White Dragon Ninja, Evilswarm Ophion, Evilswarm Thanatos, Spirit Reaper, Gellenduo. Yeah, sure. [/quote] With that much of targets for the second effects, it will be often used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord200 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Effect Veiler Tuner/LIGHT/Spellcaster/Level 1 Sangan, One for One, Scrap Dragon, Catastor, Stardust, Black Rose Dragon, BLS, Chaos Sorcerer, Mist Wurm, ect. This No hand protection/surprise. This card is like Night Shot, its good, but there is something that does it better, and is still runable. Its art is kind of lame in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I don't think veiler does it better No one wants to run veiler its just a necessity because of the broken s*** running around This isn't useless when dfissure or macro cosmos are in play and it functions much more smoothly with two uses Without playtesting its impossible to tell but I do think this will be more viable than veiler based on versatility alone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Crouton Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Block Stun can run 6 Veilers now that don't collide with Blocky now. Or, you can run 1 since it's technically 2 Veilers and side the other 4. EDIT: Also, Uniflora.dek can run this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I might use this is Minefield burn. Has use in Things that /can't/ run veiler, like solid builds. It's pretty dang useful. I like it. I like it ALOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNo.101 S.H. Death Knight Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 I love the fact the first effect is flexible on any phase of the turn and can use it on your turn if it still there on your next turn, being an MST/Heavy bait <3 it give you a chance to take out veilers for other monsters you need in your decks and run 2-3 of this. Surely this may change the trap card line a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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