Agro Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [center][img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120531135751/yugioh/images/thumb/3/3c/MachinaFortress-BP01-EN-R-1E.png/300px-MachinaFortress-BP01-EN-R-1E.png[/img][/center] [center]It's well designed, you whores. [/center] [center]Besides having 3 effects, which is usually known as "too much" in card-making terms, everything it does is either a -1 or a +0 (with an occasional +1 off its last effect) and all but the summoning effect require p2p interaction.[/center] [center]The only thing you can possibly say is badly designed is that its summoning effect is actually an effect and not inherent.[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 It's not well designed. It punishes your opponent for playing, forcing them to work around it or get lucky in order to not have a card randomly popped, have your hand looked at, or otherwise vulnerable to a 2500 beater when they go. Yes, it isn't broken or anything, but it's not balanced ior well designed, being in a remotely similar boat to Zenmaines. Interaction means f*** all when anything except S/T or widespread destruction punishes you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I think part of the reason why people say its badly designed, is because it can use itself as part of its Summoning effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [quote name='Josh Black' timestamp='1357108860' post='6108886'] It's not well designed. It punishes your opponent for playing, forcing them to work around it or get lucky in order to not have a card randomly popped, have your hand looked at, or otherwise vulnerable to a 2500 beater when they go. Yes, it isn't broken or anything, but it's not balanced ior well designed, being in a remotely similar boat to Zenmaines. Interaction means f*** all when anything except S/T or widespread destruction punishes you. [/quote]SO WHAT YOUR SAYING IS: They gave it too many effects. [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1357109052' post='6108889'] I think part of the reason why people say its badly designed, is because it can use itself as part of its Summoning effect. [/quote]I don't see that as an issue at all since you still need another monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1357109108' post='6108890'] SO WHAT YOUR SAYING IS: They gave it too many effects. [/quote] They gave it exactly one too many. I would drop the hand clause, since it seems kind of random for a fortress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1357109108' post='6108890'] I don't see that as an issue at all since you still need another monster.[/quote] I know, but activating it's effect to Summon itself from the Hand, instantly switches over to Summoning from the Graveyard, despite it saying "Hand OR Graveyard" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1357109241' post='6108893'] I know, but activating it's effect to Summon itself from the Hand, instantly switches over to Summoning from the Graveyard, despite it saying "Hand OR Graveyard" [/quote]That's more of a ruling thing than anything else. If there wasn't confusion and the card specifically stated that it could do that from the get-go, do you really think it would upset people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 So basically, having too many effects can't mean bad design is your only argument? That's completely false. Having too many effects is not inherently bad design, but it can easily give way to it. Machina Fortress is a card that forces you to work around a reasonably high power monster that punishes many attempts to kill it then revives. Any of these effects alone isn't that bad, but all together try work too well. It's badly designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [quote name='Agro' timestamp='1357109346' post='6108895'] That's more of a ruling thing than anything else. If there wasn't confusion and the card specifically stated that it could do that from the get-go, do you really think it would upset people? [/quote] Sorry. Disregard my statements, I'm just remembering bad times on DN, that I've had to explain it to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hounds Of Anubis Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 idgi This is fine. Hyperion is fine. Grapha is fine. SD bosses in general are fine. Everyone stop f***ing bitching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0b3rt Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I guess you think Lightpulsar is also fine, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hounds Of Anubis Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 No s*** I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 Meh, it falls quite easily to all the backrows that stop Grapha but it is generally a bit of a b**** to get round. Its main issue however is that it's searched so easily by Gearframe and Geargia/Gadgets can get soo much fodder in hand really easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-so-Radiant Arin Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [url='http://forum.yugiohcardmaker.net/topic/295057-i-am-the-machine-machina-fortress/']This just makes me feel unimportant. [/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted January 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 [quote name='Josh Black' timestamp='1357109467' post='6108898'] So basically, having too many effects can't mean bad design is your only argument? That's completely false. Having too many effects is not inherently bad design, but it can easily give way to it. Machina Fortress is a card that forces you to work around a reasonably high power monster that punishes many attempts to kill it then revives. Any of these effects alone isn't that bad, but all together try work too well. It's badly designed. [/quote]I never said that .-. I said that the only real reason it's bad design is because it has too many effects. Also I don't think that punishing the opponent for playing one specific playstyle (relying too much on monsters and their effects) is a bad thing either, even if the entire card, all put together, doesn't seem completely well designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoRWBY65 Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I almost got around all of this card's effects with Malefic Truth Dragon... Then he used Fiendish Chain to stop me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeguBrit Posted January 2, 2013 Report Share Posted January 2, 2013 I use 3 of these in my DN Geargias. 1 of these and a Genex Ally Tri-Force into a Number 11 did the final push for victory. It's not borked completely, it's just a pain in the ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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