Brionac, Dragon Of The Ice Barrier

[mido9]

It's not an argument because it's not that hard to make an accidental OTK. I mean, Rabbit into Anu Piranha with Faultroll in hand is an OTK. Yes, 2 of those cards are badly designed, but it's still a /2/ card OTK.

 

Or, for example, Blue-Eyed Maiden + E-Tele. And so on. You act like OTKs are something that never happen randomly like that, and always have a specific structure, but that's in no way the case.

 

It's not okay at all. Is War God Yamato okay, in and of itself? Not at all, and it does basically the same thing, but with an End Phase restriction. And that's Brionac's fault, not Tenki's, at least in this case. And maybe you could say "But Yamato has grave reliant cards to abuse", but as long as any sort of retrieval from the grave exists, it's a problem.

 

So despite the fact that Call is amazing in a slow format, and this makes it even more amazing, it's fine to release Brio back into the environment?

 

You really don't understand card design if you think releasing a card that openly restricts said design is in any way okay.

Brionac wouldnt necessarily be the problem with accidental OTKs that happen in the future, either.

 

War god yamato is perfectly fine, in and of itself, and it's not with any sort of grave retrieval. Plaguespreader is fine with brionac for example because plague is balanced, it's just the stupid crap like malicious/mezuki that are +1s for just getting it into the grave that get out of hand.

 

Call is good in a slow format yeah, but brio just trades another card in hand for another use of call that's more predicable, it wouldnt make it more amazing, it'd be just as good, in general.

 

Brionac has only really been abused most of the time with poorly designed cards, if it restricted design of those that would be fine.

[Blake]

Brionac wouldnt necessarily be the problem with accidental OTKs that happen in the future, either.

 

War god yamato is perfectly fine, in and of itself, and it's not with any sort of grave retrieval. Plaguespreader is fine with brionac for example because plague is balanced, it's just the stupid crap like malicious/mezuki that are +1s for just getting it into the grave that get out of hand.

 

Call is good in a slow format yeah, but brio just trades another card in hand for another use of call that's more predicable, it wouldnt make it more amazing, it'd be just as good, in general.

 

Brionac has only really been abused most of the time with poorly designed cards, if it restricted design of those that would be fine

This changes the fact that it will support said random OTKs how? I mean, relaly, it not being the problem with OTK X doesn't mean it's not A problem.

 

War God Yamato is fucking awful design and a horrible influence on the game, what are you on about? And you keep ignoring a fact: Call is good in a slow format. Brionac can apparently come back in a slower format, in your logic. Brionac abuses Call of the Haunted and the fact that it's slow means nothing in a slow format. How does this not increase the utility of Call? I'm not even saying it's the most horrible thing on earth, but you're acting like beign able to reuse things is fine because it's for a "-1". 

 

Brionac can be abused by any continuous card. You can't just blanket say "it only abuses badly designed cards", it's not true in the slightest. It restricts the designs of continuous cards, and cards in general, because Brionac has the easy ability to enable loops.

 

Hell, your only real argument has been that Brionac's discard is a -1 so it can't cause trouble in a slower game, but that's totally wrong. Being a -1 isn't making it inherently balanced in any way at all. That's like saying that Emergency Teleport is good and balanced design because it makes -1 Synchros and Xyz, which is in no way true. Is E-Tele incredibly and for the game now? No, but a free pull from the deck isn't even remotely balanced, despite the fact it leads into "-1s".

[Aerion Brightflame]

Mido, just please stop trying to defend terrible card design. Or using other bad design to defend it.

 

Even if you hit every single OTK this enabled, as black said, it restricts design on an entire sub type of card. That shouldn't be a thing ever. Espeically not generic, in one of the arguably easiest levels to make.

 

The fact is, there's so much that would have to be hit for this to even remotely have a chance of coming back, even though 2/3's of that is terrible design, it's to much for one card. Which is worse design than half of it.

[mido9]

This changes the fact that it will support said random OTKs how? I mean, relaly, it not being the problem with OTK X doesn't mean it's not A problem.

 

War God Yamato is fucking awful design and a horrible influence on the game, what are you on about? And you keep ignoring a fact: Call is good in a slow format. Brionac can apparently come back in a slower format, in your logic. Brionac abuses Call of the Haunted and the fact that it's slow means nothing in a slow format. How does this not increase the utility of Call? I'm not even saying it's the most horrible thing on earth, but you're acting like beign able to reuse things is fine because it's for a "-1". 

 

Brionac can be abused by any continuous card. You can't just blanket say "it only abuses badly designed cards", it's not true in the slightest. It restricts the designs of continuous cards, and cards in general, because Brionac has the easy ability to enable loops.

 

Hell, your only real argument has been that Brionac's discard is a -1 so it can't cause trouble in a slower game, but that's totally wrong. Being a -1 isn't making it inherently balanced in any way at all. That's like saying that Emergency Teleport is good and balanced design because it makes -1 Synchros and Xyz, which is in no way true. Is E-Tele incredibly and for the game now? No, but a free pull from the deck isn't even remotely balanced, despite the fact it leads into "-1s".

Okay, and since it isnt THE problem with the OTK there isnt a reason to get rid of it for that OTK, when they come out, and keeping a nifty synchro tech banned just because it supports OTKs that arent its fault is silly.

 

Yamato is fine, it's not badly designed at all. And I didnt ignore that call is good in a slow format, I said that reusing call in a slow format for that -1 is fine. Saying it's always OK because it's a -1 is silly, yeah i get that, but in this case, reusing call for that -1 is balanced, and it's not abusing it, just reusing it, basically.

 

It only being broken with badly designed cards is true so far in general. It doesnt restrict design heavily since the things that help it in the loops it makes are poorly designed, so it would just make the designers more careful about designing S/T, not straight up decimate most continuous S/T releases.

 

-1s dont make everything balanced yeah, but in this case it does in a balanced format. Im fine with teleport.

[ihop]

It's a bad thing when I'd rather have this back than have E-Dragons released.

[Blake]

Okay, and since it isnt THE problem with the OTK there isnt a reason to get rid of it for that OTK, when they come out, and keeping a nifty synchro tech banned just because it supports OTKs that arent its fault is silly.

 

Yamato is fine, it's not badly designed at all. And I didnt ignore that call is good in a slow format, I said that reusing call in a slow format for that -1 is fine. Saying it's always OK because it's a -1 is silly, yeah i get that, but in this case, reusing call for that -1 is balanced, and it's not abusing it, just reusing it, basically.

 

It only being broken with badly designed cards is true so far in general. It doesnt restrict design heavily since the things that help it in the loops it makes are poorly designed, so it would just make the designers more careful about designing S/T, not straight up decimate most continuous S/T releases.

 

-1s dont make everything balanced yeah, but in this case it does in a balanced format. Im fine with teleport.

When did I ever say it was the problem with any given OTK? It's a major problem in-and-of itself. It's not a "nifty Synchro tech", it's a card that does nothing but awful things for the game, and is a Synchro staple.

 

Yamato's fucking awful design. Similar cards like Lavalval Dragun push it, but they at least take effort, not just summon and go for the rest of the game. It's borderline broken. And reusing Revival cards is abusing them.

 

So promoting OTKs by existing, abusing otherwise balanced cards (Call), abusing cards that are not half as badly designed as Brionac (Chronomaly City Babylon), and adding nothing positive to the game is grounds for it to be unbanned? It restricts design heavily, and you're kidding yourself if you think it doesn't. It's inherently broken, in and of itself, not just the cards it could abuse.

 

Yes, I know you're fine with Teleport on a design level. It shows how you know nothing ABOUT card design. And no, the fact that the discard is a -1 doesn't make it balanced.