Brionac, Dragon Of The Ice Barrier

[·Toot]

 

That name is so misleading.

lol Discuss?

[Aerion Brightflame]

It's the perfect example of a card ruined by not having a once per turn clause.

 

It can now never return.  Ever.

[Cute Rotten Yoshika]

what is there to discuss about this card? its obviously broken beyond all belief.

[Agro]

I wouldn't say obviously.

 

Simply bouncing cards in -1 fashion doesn't look all that broken until you realize the loops and shit it can produce.

 

Anyway, good riddance.

[~British Soul~]

Should remain sealed in its cell in yugimonz jail like it was before it was revived in the events of DT01.

[Sora1499]

I play synchros and I play WATER and even I want this to stay dead.

[Kingdom Xathers]

Atlanteans pretty much ensure that this can never come back... not that this card ever needs a reason to.

[Agro]

Should remain sealed in its cell in yugimonz jail like it was before it was revived in the events of DT01.

And when the world gets overrun with bullshit, it will be released...

 

*looks at format*

 

WHELP, WE'RE FUCKED

[~British Soul~]

And when the world gets overrun with bullshit, it will be released...

 

*looks at format*

 

WHELP, WE'RE FUCKED

...If there are any Ice Barrier people left alive after said BS overruns the world.

[Lunar Origins]

re-release a card like it that doesn't allow you to bounce from your side of the field and I'll be a happy maiden

[mido9]

Should totally come back after the atlanteans, infernity launcher/archfiend, gateway, and librarian die. It would pretty much kill most of its consistent OTK/Loop uses

[Blake]

Should totally come back after the atlanteans, infernity launcher/archfiend, gateway, and librarian die. It would pretty much kill most of its consistent OTK/Loop uses

... And?

 

It would still restrict future designs, would still make OTKs, and would still be an overall negative influence on the game.

[mido9]

... And?

 

It would still restrict future designs, would still make OTKs, and would still be an overall negative influence on the game.

It wouldnt make OTKs without those cards, and almost every OTK involving had something that was badly designed regardless, so it could prevent more of them from being released. It wouldnt be negative.

[Blake]

It wouldnt make OTKs without those cards, and almost every OTK involving had something that was badly designed regardless, so it could prevent more of them from being released. It wouldnt be negative.

 

A card that says "Discard your hand; clear their field" wouldn't make OTKs? Mido, you're drunk, go home.

 

And that's like saying Harpie Dancer is badly designed, in and of itself, because it enables an FTK that isn't even its fault in the end. No, Brionac will always limit design and be a negative influence on the game because it adds nothing good to the game, only OTKs, potential loops, etc.

[Sleepy]

Not only did they not make it once per turn, but they even went out of their way to have this be able to discard multiple cards and get multiple targets "per time".

They were fully aware this would not be balanced. They did not think "sh*t I messed up and forgot the once per turn" at any given moment.

[mido9]

A card that says "Discard your hand; clear their field" wouldn't make OTKs? Mido, you're drunk, go home.

 

And that's like saying Harpie Dancer is badly designed, in and of itself, because it enables an FTK that isn't even its fault in the end. No, Brionac will always limit design and be a negative influence on the game because it adds nothing good to the game, only OTKs, potential loops, etc.

If you could still have a lot of cards in hand and still have a field that makes 8000 without gateway/lib/etc, there's a problem.

 

And brio isnt only useful for OTKs and loops, it's a useful spot removal in a lot of synchro decks that without the OTK support doesnt cause OTKs.

[Blake]

If you're making removal as you go, you shouldn't need to clear much with Brio, just enough to ensure the OTK.

And it's not just removal. In addition to the OTKing,it also abuses anything continuous, and restricts card design.

[vla1ne]

If they want to be fair, they could do to this card what they did to Fairy king truesdale and infernalqueen archfiend

 

 

They changed the effects on these cards so badly that two of my favorite decks got killed immediately. And these two didn't even deserve it half as much as Brionac does.

 

all they need to do is give it a "once per turn" clause and it'd be almost not broken balanced out.

[mido9]

If you're making removal as you go, you shouldn't need to clear much with Brio, just enough to ensure the OTK.

And it's not just removal. In addition to the OTKing,it also abuses anything continuous, and restricts card design.

It's not brionac's fault there that you could put 8000 on the field though.

 

And there arent any continous spells that are broken when you -1 to add them to your hand again IIRC.

[Blake]

It's not brionac's fault there that you could put 8000 on the field though.

 

And there arent any continous spells that are broken when you -1 to add them to your hand again IIRC.

It's brionac's fault that the field was clear enough for it to go through.

 

Tenki, which is in no way banworthy in and of itself, Call's not bad to bounce, and in a slower format where this could "come back", would be a great target, etc.

 

And, again, it restricts card design.

[ChaosGenocideReign]

That card is broken. I find it interesting that General Raiho, another Ice Barrier card, isn't broken, though.

[mido9]

It's brionac's fault that the field was clear enough for it to go through.

 

Tenki, which is in no way banworthy in and of itself, Call's not bad to bounce, and in a slower format where this could "come back", would be a great target, etc.

 

And, again, it restricts card design.

Semi-consistent OTKs shouldnt exist regardless, and hitting a neat synchro tech and keeping that OTK but making it harder to connect isnt the best hit.

 

Bouncing tenki/call with brionac essentially adds a discard 1 card to them, and for call you cant use it that turn, making them both much more balanced. I dont see anything wrong with that, tbh.

[Blake]

Semi-consistent OTKs shouldnt exist regardless, and hitting a neat synchro tech and keeping that OTK but making it harder to connect isnt the best hit.

 

Bouncing tenki/call with brionac essentially adds a discard 1 card to them, and for call you cant use it that turn, making them both much more balanced. I dont see anything wrong with that, tbh.

That's not a reason to ever release Brionac. It will always exist to be exploited by any rogue OTK that comes along, and keeping it around in the name of "It's not its fault alone" isn't an argument when it will still end up enabling them.

 

So... Brionac turns it into Discard 1, Add 1 BW from deck to hand for call, and that's balanced? Tell me how. The fact that it's not a +1 isn't an argument, because it allows you to search at a +0 for what you want when you want it every turn.

 

In a slower format, Call is much better. Even if it takes a turn, it's still easy to reuse and abuse.

 

Also, thanks for replying to the restricting future card design part <3

[mido9]

That's not a reason to ever release Brionac. It will always exist to be exploited by any rogue OTK that comes along, and keeping it around in the name of "It's not its fault alone" isn't an argument when it will still end up enabling them.

 

So... Brionac turns it into Discard 1, Add 1 BW from deck to hand for call, and that's balanced? Tell me how. The fact that it's not a +1 isn't an argument, because it allows you to search at a +0 for what you want when you want it every turn.

 

In a slower format, Call is much better. Even if it takes a turn, it's still easy to reuse and abuse.

 

Also, thanks for replying to the restricting future card design part <3

It's an argument, the OTKs ARE the problem, and brionac wouldnt be the problem in them if it supposedly enabled them.

 

Brionac turning it into discard 1 add 1 is fine by me, as long as what you're doing with whatever you search is balanced then having the option of doing any of those balanced plays at a time is OK.

 

Reusing COTH on a discard one every turn is still balanced, even in a slower format.

 

Almost all the consistent loops brionac had involved something else that's poorly designed, so if it restricted that kind of design I guess im ok with it. That and they can just design around.

[Blake]

It's an argument, the OTKs ARE the problem, and brionac wouldnt be the problem in them if it supposedly enabled them.

 

Brionac turning it into discard 1 add 1 is fine by me, as long as what you're doing with whatever you search is balanced then having the option of doing any of those balanced plays at a time is OK.

 

Reusing COTH on a discard one every turn is still balanced, even in a slower format.

 

Almost all the consistent loops brionac had involved something else that's poorly designed, so if it restricted that kind of design I guess im ok with it. That and they can just design around.

It's not an argument because it's not that hard to make an accidental OTK. I mean, Rabbit into Anu Piranha with Faultroll in hand is an OTK. Yes, 2 of those cards are badly designed, but it's still a /2/ card OTK.

 

Or, for example, Blue-Eyed Maiden + E-Tele. And so on. You act like OTKs are something that never happen randomly like that, and always have a specific structure, but that's in no way the case.

 

It's not okay at all. Is War God Yamato okay, in and of itself? Not at all, and it does basically the same thing, but with an End Phase restriction. And that's Brionac's fault, not Tenki's, at least in this case. And maybe you could say "But Yamato has grave reliant cards to abuse", but as long as any sort of retrieval from the grave exists, it's a problem.

 

So despite the fact that Call is amazing in a slow format, and this makes it even more amazing, it's fine to release Brio back into the environment?

 

You really don't understand card design if you think releasing a card that openly restricts said design is in any way okay.