Witch of the Black Forest

[Synchronized]

Normally, I think SuperTrooper poses some really valid points and receives unwarranted criticism on YCM, especially when it comes to stuff like Magician of Faith.

 

In this case however, you're absolutely moronic.  Whether or not you're trolling for the sake of getting a reaction or genuinely convinced, Witch of the Black Forest has no business being back.  I might have advocated that it deserved a shot @1 on the list (assuming DaD was banned) before Prophecies came out, but now it's even more searchable than before and can turn stuff like Judgment into even more of a plus.  

 

This is a horrible idea.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Normally, I think SuperTrooper poses some really valid points and receives unwarranted criticism on YCM, especially when it comes to stuff like Magician of Faith.

 

In this case however, you're absolutely moronic.  Whether or not you're trolling for the sake of getting a reaction or genuinely convinced, Witch of the Black Forest has no business being back.  I might have advocated that it deserved a shot @1 on the list (assuming DaD was banned) before Prophecies came out, but now it's even more searchable than before and can turn stuff like Judgment into even more of a plus.  

 

This is a horrible idea.

 

See my above post. And Prophecy? Why on earth would they run this? Why would they Special Summon Witch with Judgment instead of Jowgen or Justice? Justice gives them an immediate +2 after being summoned by Judgment, and gives them any Spellbook (including another Judgment) and also gives them their boss, Junon. That is infinitely beter than what Witch could do. Jowgen is also far better because it stops the opponent from being able to make their main plays while you control them with backrow. No offense, but you sir are in a fantasy land of your own. I want people to stop and actually think about how mediocre Witch really is.

[宇佐見 蓮子@C94]

There's really no reason to overthink this. When Sangan was around, everyone has one in their deck because it's that good. This is like Sangan on steroids.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Just on the list of decks that wouldn't run it... aren't a good number of players under the opinion that at least 3 of those decks shouldn't exist outright? And a couple of others should be hit in someway. Since it's kinda defending something broken with something broken. Also... I thought Pure Lightsworns didn't exist as a deck?

 

As a searcher, it's one of the best in the game because of the scope of the targets. So on paper, it should stay firmly where it is. But then you look at in reality, and it's a tad slow. Even if you slowed down the meta a significant amount. Since, well it's still really really slow. So yes, it could actually be put at 1. It COULD, not that it should.

 

So yes... it could come back, but first we need Sangan back.

[Legend Zero]

Why do you guys even try to argue? Its obvious that super has a problem with growing banlist in a game which has a growing card pool.

His only point ever is that, "it won't do anything in today's meta".

And no, that's definitely not my only point.

You genuinely believe that? LOL. You think virtually every deck would play Witch of the Black Forest?

E-Dragons: No
Prophecy: No
Verz: No
Fire Fist: No
Merlantean: No
Constellar: No
Madolche: No
Hunder: No
Wind-Ups: No
Gadgets: No
Geargia: No
Karakuri: No
Six Sam: No
HERO: No
Lightsworn: No
Infernity: No
Chain Burn: No
Countdown: No

Dino Rabbit: Yes
Inzektors: Yes (can't even search Fly though lol)
Synchrocentric: Yes
War Gods: Maybe
Exodia: Maybe (depends on the build)

Feel free to add to the list folks.

See my above post. And Prophecy? Why on earth would they run this? Why would they Special Summon Witch with Judgment instead of Jowgen or Justice? Justice gives them an immediate +2 after being summoned by Judgment, and gives them any Spellbook (including another Judgment) and also gives them their boss, Junon. That is infinitely beter than what Witch could do. Jowgen is also far better because it stops the opponent from being able to make their main plays while you control them with backrow. No offense, but you sir are in a fantasy land of your own. I want people to stop and actually think about how mediocre Witch really is.

<_<


Also, Prophecy have a high chance at running Witch when J-Day gets the hammer. Once again, its not the fact that it is bad in the current meta. Its the fact that it searches <70% of the deck-able monsters.

[Synchronized]

Why wouldn't Fire Fists run one? Or Verz, even? It makes it easier to grab your Castor or something if you don't open with it.  There's no reason not to run the card in the majority of Decks that aren't Elemental Dragons, really...

[Strider Tigerwolf]

Witch can make 37 card decks into 36 card decks. That's bad. I know it's very generalized, but its bad (especially since it gets you what you want instead of just drawing).

[Somnia]

<_<


Also, Prophecy have a high chance at running Witch when J-Day gets the hammer. Once again, its not the fact that it is bad in the current meta. Its the fact that it searches <70% of the deck-able monsters.

 

I'm not supporting his decision to want Witch back, but you called him out on bad logic. This is the epitome of that itself. Using something that hasn't even happened, and may never happen (though it probably will) is such astonishingly terrible logic.

[Agro]

[quote name="Somnia" post="6196359" timestamp="1368034936"]I'm not supporting his decision to want Witch back, but you called him out on bad logic. This is the epitome of that itself. Using something that hasn't even happened, and may never happen (though it probably will) is such astonishingly terrible logic.[/quote]It's not bad logic to say that something will happen if something else happens. Especially if it's very likely to happen. Please don't talk on things you don't know about. > Literally says this while sitting in a logic class.

[Legend Zero]

I'm not supporting his decision to want Witch back, but you called him out on bad logic. This is the epitome of that itself. Using something that hasn't even happened, and may never happen (though it probably will) is such astonishingly terrible logic.

If he can look to the future of next banlist to say certain decks will not run Witch then I can say what should be on said list to influence that choice, no?

And its not bad logic when it is the most OP legal card in the game.

[Somnia]

It's not bad logic to say that something will happen if something else happens. Especially if it's very likely to happen. Please don't talk on things you don't know about. > Literally says this while sitting in a logic class.

 

To disregard a statement based on logic of the present day only to back up your own with a speculation on the future is terrible logic, no matter how likely or unlikely your speculation is. 

 

 

 

If he can look to the future of next banlist to say certain decks will not run Witch then I can say what should be on said list to influence that choice, no?

And its not bad logic when it is the most OP legal card in the game.

 

He didn't. He's been saying it isn't any trouble in this format, not others. If I'm wrong quote where he says it won't effect the next banlist and I'll recall this statement. 

 

Most Op Card in Game. Still getting destroyed 3:1 by E-Drags

[Agro]

He didn't. He's been saying it isn't any trouble in this format, not others. If I'm wrong quote where he says it won't effect the next banlist and I'll recall this statement.

The part where Witch can't come back mid-format.

[Aerion Brightflame]

To disregard a statement based on logic of the present day only to back up your own with a speculation on the future is terrible logic, no matter how likely or unlikely your speculation is. 

 

 

 

 

He didn't. He's been saying it isn't any trouble in this format, not others. If I'm wrong quote where he says it won't effect the next banlist and I'll recall this statement. 

 

Most Op Card in Game. Still getting destroyed 3:1 by E-Drags

 

Yes, Judgement is the most broken single card in the game that's currently legal. And Dragon Rulers are the most broken series of cards currently legal. Also, 3:1? I thought Dragon Rulers were having a hard time as of late.

[Legend Zero]

He didn't. He's been saying it isn't any trouble in this format, not others. If I'm wrong quote where he says it won't effect the next banlist and I'll recall this statement.

Most Op Card in Game. Still getting destroyed 3:1 by E-Drags

oh! Oh! OH! Wow, lol. I thought for sure we were talking about after a banlist. The "You think virtually every deck would play Witch of the Black Forest?" post made me assume that we were talking about after a list, you know, because this format no deck will play Witch, because its banned. (this is serious too, did I get lost?)

What is the point of saying decks at this moment would function without Witch? Like, its a waste of time because Witch wouldn't be in the game until after the next list.

Most OP card in the game will obviously lose to most OP deck in the game, though I didn't think it was 3:1. Dragons are also a cheaper deck.

[Superdoopertrooper]

If he can look to the future of next banlist to say certain decks will not run Witch then I can say what should be on said list to influence that choice, no?

And its not bad logic when it is the most OP legal card in the game.

 

Wth? You think Witch would be the most OP card if it were legal now? LOL. You just shot yourself in the foot big time. Hell, it would be UP if it came back right now.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Wth? You think Witch would be the most OP card if it were legal now? LOL. You just shot yourself in the foot big time. Hell, it would be UP if it came back right now.

 

............... He was talking about Judgement Day. Not this.

[Legend Zero]

Wth? You think Witch would be the most OP card if it were legal now? LOL. You just shot yourself in the foot big time. Hell, it would be UP if it came back right now.

..................J-Day, not Witch.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Witch can make 37 card decks into 36 card decks. That's bad. I know it's very generalized, but its bad (especially since it gets you what you want instead of just drawing).

 

This is a case of "what this is I don't even".

[Somnia]

The part where Witch can't come back mid-format.

 

But that's not the premise. It's if it were to come back now, would it do anything? Nah. 

 

oh! Oh! OH! Wow, lol. I thought for sure we were talking about after a banlist. The "You think virtually every deck would play Witch of the Black Forest?" post made me assume that we were talking about after a list, you know, because this format no deck will play Witch, because its banned. (this is serious too, did I get lost?)

What is the point of saying decks at this moment would function without Witch? Like, its a waste of time because Witch wouldn't be in the game until after the next list.

Most OP card in the game will obviously lose to most OP deck in the game, though I didn't think it was 3:1. Dragons are also a cheaper deck.

 

That also makes it a waste of time to consider what it would do next banlist seeing as how Konami hasn't even thought of the name of the set that the next Meta will be from.

 

No argument there. E-Drags are pretty broke.

[ihop]

Oh just shut the f*** up and stop being so stupid.

 

Really.

[Superdoopertrooper]

..................J-Day, not Witch.

 

Ok, that sure was confusing though.

 

And the list I compiled didn't just stop at the tier 0 decks like E-Drags and Prophecy, it went all the way down throughout most of the playable decks, and still not that many would play Witch, and even if they did, it sure as heck wouldn't be anything spectacular.

 

I mean, lets put it this way. If you play Witch in a themed deck, it's basically just a worse version of Gravekeepers Recruiter, because it doesn't have themed synergy or support. Would you give a shit if an archetype had a themed Witch (and many do, or have a better version)? No. I mean, if there was a card called "Witch of Prophecy" that said "when this card is sent from the field to the grave, add 1 "prophecy" monster from the deck to your hand", no-one would care. And that's the thing, no matter what deck you put her in, that's basically exactly what she would do, she'd just be a wannabe themed searcher that is slow and has little synergy and support.

 

The fact that she can search things which normally can't be because they aren't part of an archetype is GOOD, because it gives them much-needed support and makes non pre-fabricated archetype decks marginally more viable, makes generic toolboxing for situations better, and it allows personal techs to become more playable. Basically, it would do no harm at all, and not much would even play it in the first place anyway.

 

Oh just shut the f*** up and stop being so stupid.

 

Really.

 

Take your own advice, and take a chill pill while you're at it. So mad.

[Aerion Brightflame]

Now, I agree with you that Witch could come back, but not with the fact she should. But the same can be said about a lot of the banlist.

 

But for the love of all that's Holy, there is not a Tier 0 this format. Please stop using it as a way of referring to the decks (Even if it's just a figure of speech), because it will give people the impression you're an idiot.

[Agro]

But that's not the premise. It's if it were to come back now, would it do anything? Nah. 

The premise of the argument was that it should come back to 1. That's literally the first thing he said.

 

That can only happen in a format change.

[Canadian]

Didn't Hatcher make "being stupid" against the rules?

If so, why isn't superpoopertrooper banned?

[Superdoopertrooper]

The premise of the argument was that it should come back to 1. That's literally the first thing he said.

 

That can only happen in a format change.

 

When you propose a certain card to change position on the list, that doesn't imply anything else has to or will along with it. For example, 2 formats ago when I said Tsukuymi should come back (and yes, a LOT of people thought I was crazy and blasphemous for questioning the almighty and unfathomable power of Tsukuyomi), that would not require anything else to change, and it would be quite silly to automatically assume I was talking about bringing it back in the next list. Nobody knows what the next list is going to be, so it's quite meaningless to assume that and involve the unknown. Unless stated otherwise, you should assume the change based on the most recently known official list, because that's all we can meaningfully go by at this time.