General Luck Discussion

[Zazubat]

How does luck effect YGO? I'm talking dice, coins, randomness etc. It's a part of many card games, yet YGO has avoided it, and it's mostly because it doesn't play well with the game at all. I find it sad that it's not really a thing anymore, while there're still cards that try to make it work, they fall flat because they always have drawbacks Should they have that? Most cards today don't even have drawbacks, so why should something that might or might not happen have?

[вєgσттєη ιηѕαηιту]

I feel they don't involve it because there are existing cards that would just demolish cards based on luck. One bad dice roll and your opponents ends up with some 4000 Beat Stick and you have to wait a turn to roll again. I feel that if the game had a much slower format then luck based would be nice, which is why it works in games like MTG which are slower.

[Βyakuya]

People are afraid to try their luck as these coin tosses/dice rolls can lead to bad consequences. Exceptions being cards like Snipe Hunter. I think nowadays people who user decks like Arcana Force or cards that utilize luck play for the fun of it. But pretty much a majority of us are stuck in a format where definite effects and fast pacing with intimidation while gambling in YGO will soon be forgotten and then level off.

[Sleepy]

I'm of the idea that drawbacks in luck cards should not exist at all. The bad outcome by itself should mostly be not haivng the benefit you actually needed, even if it's also a positive thing, or simply neutral, like "nothing happens", which pokemon uses fairly well.

 

Also, it should have been crawling inside multiple strategies rather than hoping to become a theme. Pokemon doesn't have such a thing as a "dice roll" deck as far as I know.

 

 

Not to mention, the good effects provided are meaningless if another card does the same job better, or even just as well. For example, what good is Graceful Dice when Rush Recklessly exists? Well, if you roll a high enough number with a decent amount of monsters, the total +ATK value of your field increases. Which varies from 100 to 3000. Too bad it's very unreliable and doesn't have any comeback potential most of the time. If you have the luck and resourses to make it work, you actually don't need it to win.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure how much creativity can designers put into luck cards nowadays. Anything branded "good" will most likely overdo it's positive effects to a broken extent to be viable, which can't be good, this is something the game should have done back in the DM era, especially with someone like Joey around to promote them.

 

 

Arcana Force Monsters have negative side effects that more than discourage their usage for something other than "felt like using them against X friend".

If their effects for tails were none, then it'd be more respectable. Or if their negative effects also had combo support pieces to make them "different" rather than "bad", it'd be awesome. 

 

For example, Arcana Force VII - The Charriot.

It's a 1700 ATK Goyo, which is very respectable. Why doesn't it see use? because you also have the risk of just giving away your monster to your opponent. It's much much worse than if it simply self-destroyed or something, or if it banished itself to come back next turn for another coin toss, or if it just became a 1700 ATK effect-less monster for the turn. That'd make much of a difference. I know its supposed to be focused on luck, but the amount of downsides is stupid.

Even if you have cards to turn the coin toss around, that just means your card now gained a -1 counter in it's effect, a space that you could have used for something more helpful. Not just any -1, but a -1 that technically required you to pay a specific card.

 

 

I'm  not sure where I'm going with this, just some thoughts.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

I actually also feel that the bad outcome for luck-based cards shouldn't exist, or at least be minimal. Since having a variable effect can cause problems to begin with (closest I can think of being Dangerous Machine), or an effect that can end up doing nothing can end up being crappy as well (See Snipe Hunter).

[RavingSuzerain]

I'm of the idea that drawbacks in luck cards should not exist at all. The bad outcome by itself should mostly be not haivng the benefit you actually needed, even if it's also a positive thing, or simply neutral, like "nothing happens", which pokemon uses fairly well.

 

Also, it should have been crawling inside multiple strategies rather than hoping to become a theme. Pokemon doesn't have such a thing as a "dice roll" deck as far as I know.

 

 

Not to mention, the good effects provided are meaningless if another card does the same job better, or even just as well. For example, what good is Graceful Dice when Rush Recklessly exists? Well, if you roll a high enough number with a decent amount of monsters, the total +ATK value of your field increases. Which varies from 100 to 3000. Too bad it's very unreliable and doesn't have any comeback potential most of the time. If you have the luck and resourses to make it work, you actually don't need it to win.

 

To be honest, I'm not sure how much creativity can designers put into luck cards nowadays. Anything branded "good" will most likely overdo it's positive effects to a broken extent to be viable, which can't be good, this is something the game should have done back in the DM era, especially with someone like Joey around to promote them.

 

 

Arcana Force Monsters have negative side effects that more than discourage their usage for something other than "felt like using them against X friend".

If their effects for tails were none, then it'd be more respectable. Or if their negative effects also had combo support pieces to make them "different" rather than "bad", it'd be awesome. 

 

For example, Arcana Force VII - The Charriot.

It's a 1700 ATK Goyo, which is very respectable. Why doesn't it see use? because you also have the risk of just giving away your monster to your opponent. It's much much worse than if it simply self-destroyed or something, or if it banished itself to come back next turn for another coin toss, or if it just became a 1700 ATK effect-less monster for the turn. That'd make much of a difference. I know its supposed to be focused on luck, but the amount of downsides is stupid.

Even if you have cards to turn the coin toss around, that just means your card now gained a -1 counter in it's effect, a space that you could have used for something more helpful. Not just any -1, but a -1 that technically required you to pay a specific card.

 

 

I'm  not sure where I'm going with this, just some thoughts.

 

I think Arcana Force monsters' reverse effects were mainly for narrative purposes in GX. I do remember The Chariot's reverse effect being used to a win a duel in the show, at least. But yeah, Pokemon has it right; there should be duds rather than negative effects.