m.s.t. vs. d.t.

[newhat]

I think most Decks can use Trap Stun effectively, and Call of the Haunted.

[TFMegamanlan]

Call's top use is when your Opponent will attack you directly more then on your turn.
Trap Stun isn't used in all Decks for some reason... Regardless, it's not worth playing DT to put it down.

[Blake]

Have you read Chain Material?

[Miror B]

Call's top use is when your Opponent will attack you directly more then on your turn.

Oh I thought it's main use was Synchro/Xyz Fodder

 

Exempting Reckless Greed, nearly all Traps that you should use on your turn aren't worth playing. (Note: I said 'nearly' not all. There are a few worth playing with specific decks.)

Non-Aggression Area was the card suggestion that started this convo so idk why you're changing the subject like that.

[TFMegamanlan]

The point is that Dust Tornado isn't worth playing just for the set ability.
Nearly all Traps you would play on your turn is still not worth playing. (I have Fusion Decks and I find Chain Material to be total junk. So it lets me Fuse from anywhere to have a Monster that can't really do anything and dies after my turn... Not worth it)
Non-Agression Area isn't really relevant anymore. Mermails and Dragon Rulers can easily go around it, Blackwings will either just wait it out or just SS to get around it.
In general, it's not worth playing DT for the set effect.

[Blake]

The point is that Dust Tornado isn't worth playing just for the set ability.
Nearly all Traps you would play on your turn is still not worth playing. (I have Fusion Decks and I find Chain Material to be total junk. So it lets me Fuse from anywhere to have a Monster that can't really do anything and dies after my turn... Not worth it)
Non-Agression Area isn't really relevant anymore. Mermails and Dragon Rulers can easily go around it, Blackwings will either just wait it out or just SS to get around it.
In general, it's not worth playing DT for the set effect.

Chain Material's a degenerate OTK card that has numerous OTKs associated.

 

It was also used in 'Roids before.

 

So please, don't post when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[Airride]

Dust Tornado's Status as a Trap and ability to set shit is it's novelty; If you have a use for either ability, it's usually good to run 2-2 MST-DT or something along those lines, unless your deck is anti-spell or something, in which case, still run at least 1 MST.

Otherwise, 3 MST > Dust Tornado.

[TFMegamanlan]

Chain Material's a degenerate OTK card that has numerous OTKs associated.

It was also used in 'Roids before.

So please, don't post when you don't have a clue what you're talking about.

I was playing when it came out. It had some OTK's then yes. But now it's not worth even $.25. If it was, then it would be used right now and it's not.

Oh, and don't forget, most decks are Anti-Trap Decks. Seriously, if your Deck needs more then 2-3 MST's there's just a problem with your deck. Don't start suggesting Dust Tornado because it can set stuff and be half as effective as a MST unless you set 5 already or are drawing in your Opponent's turn.

[Blake]

I was playing when it came out. It had some OTK's then yes. But now it's not worth even $.25. If it was, then it would be used right now and it's not.

Oh, and don't forget, most decks are Anti-Trap Decks. Seriously, if your Deck needs more then 2-3 MST's there's just a problem with your deck. Don't start suggesting Dust Tornado because it can set stuff and be half as effective as a MST unless you set 5 already or are drawing in your Opponent's turn.

... Do you even comprehend what Chain Material does? Because really, you're talking out of your ass.

 

It IS used right now. In a degenerate, rogue ass OTK deck. Electrum OTK, which can use Gustav Max or Blaze Fenix, uses it. Again, stop arguing when you don't know what you're talking about. No one cares how long you've been playing the game, because your posts show that the time you've spent playing haven't added up to a lick of knowledge of the game and gamestate.

 

And no, most decks are not "anti-Trap". Prepping for backrow doen't make you run "anti-trap".

[TFMegamanlan]

Your post proves my point. Nearly every card in the game is used in a rouge deck somewhere. Even though its an OTK deck, it's not competing with Tier 1 Decks effectively or even most Tier 2 Decks.
Regardless this discussion does not have to deal with MST or DT. My point is simple, DT isn't as good as MST even with the option to set stuff on your Opponent's turn. Even if Chain Material is worth using (and with how I read that OTK works its not that great and can be shut down by a well placed Effect Veiler or a Divine Wrath) it doesn't mean Dust Tornado is worth playing unless you need more then 3 MST's.

[TFMegamanlan]

Your post proves my point. Nearly every card in the game is used in a rouge deck somewhere. Even though its an OTK deck, it's not competing with Tier 1 Decks effectively or even most Tier 2 Decks.
Regardless this discussion does not have to deal with MST or DT. My point is simple, DT isn't as good as MST even with the option to set stuff on your Opponent's turn. Even if Chain Material is worth using (and with how I read that OTK works its not that great and can be shut down by a well placed Effect Veiler or a Divine Wrath) it doesn't mean Dust Tornado is worth playing unless you need more then 3 MST's.

Dragon Rulers don't run Traps, Mermails run 1 that they need, Blackwings use them, but most Tier 1 Decks either do not run them beyond Decree or don't need them to run effectively.

[Miror B]

Your post proves my point. Nearly every card in the game is used in a rouge deck somewhere. Even though its an OTK deck, it's not competing with Tier 1 Decks effectively or even most Tier 2 Decks.
Regardless this discussion does not have to deal with MST or DT. My point is simple, DT isn't as good as MST even with the option to set stuff on your Opponent's turn. Even if Chain Material is worth using (and with how I read that OTK works its not that great and can be shut down by a well placed Effect Veiler or a Divine Wrath) it doesn't mean Dust Tornado is worth playing unless you need more then 3 MST's.

The OTK usually requires 2 Veilers/Divine Wraths to stop

[Blake]

Dragon Rulers don't run Traps, Mermails run 1 that they need, Blackwings use them, but most Tier 1 Decks either do not run them beyond Decree or don't need them to run effectively.

Uhm... Yes, Dragon Rulers do run traps. And there are more relevant decks than lolBlackwings.

 

Most decks do run traps again.

[TFMegamanlan]

Yea, decks will run the broken Sixth Sense and Return from the DD but tell me how many Dragon Ruler decks you've played that are competent that run more Traps then that and maybe Decree?
...you have no idea of the meta do you? Dragon Rulers, Mermail, Blackwings and Spellbooks. Dark World, Bujin and others are Tier 2 nationally. Maybe not in your area, but nationally they are.

That OTK sounds more like it could be stopped by 1-2 Effect negator effects or maybe a Karma Cut or two.

[Blake]

Yea, decks will run the broken Sixth Sense and Return from the DD but tell me how many Dragon Ruler decks you've played that are competent that run more Traps then that and maybe Decree?
...you have no idea of the meta do you? Dragon Rulers, Mermail, Blackwings and Spellbooks. Dark World, Bujin and others are Tier 2 nationally. Maybe not in your area, but nationally they are.

That OTK sounds more like it could be stopped by 1-2 Effect negator effects or maybe a Karma Cut or two.

You're silly if you think Blackwings and Dark Worlds are remotely tier. They're rogue decks that straggle along but never really matter.

 

Mermail are beneath Rulers and Prophecy by a long ways, and are barely T2, so IDK what you're on about.

 

And you're also silly if you think that Raigeki Break, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, and the favor falling Vanity's Emptiness aren't played/haven't been played.

[TFMegamanlan]

The latest YCS would strongly disagree.

Blackwings are top Tier, Dark World has been Tier 2 for a while now. Mermail are still Tier 1. You sir do not know of the current Meta at all if this is what your thinking.

Raigeki Break, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast and Vanity's Emptyness are played. (In the TCG most top players look down on others that use Break... I don't personally.) But from what you're saying you sound like an OCG player, not TCG. Which would explain your weird ideas of the meta as well as Break.

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

Don't define what is meta and what isn't just from a single event. :\ I think that's the part where most people will call you out on that.

[Blake]

The latest YCS would strongly disagree.

Blackwings are top Tier, Dark World has been Tier 2 for a while now. Mermail are still Tier 1. You sir do not know of the current Meta at all if this is what your thinking.

Raigeki Break, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast and Vanity's Emptyness are played. (In the TCG most top players look down on others that use Break... I don't personally.) But from what you're saying you sound like an OCG player, not TCG. Which would explain your weird ideas of the meta as well as Break.

Uh... First off, what Arin said. One event does not a meta define.

 

Blackwings aren't top tier, and IDK why you'd think they were.

 

Secondly, TCG Rulers use Break. Any build worth its stock uses Break. I'm not talking OCG, I'm talking TCG. Like really, you keep saying I know nothing, yet you keep saying things that are absolutely untrue of the format

[TFMegamanlan]

I'm trying to research other major events since the new format and not much is coming up right now so that's most of what I got to go on.

Remember Meta is not based on Locals or even most Regional tournaments. The big ones are what defines the meta in the TCG.

[Blake]

I'm trying to research other major events since the new format and not much is coming up right now so that's most of what I got to go on.

Remember Meta is not based on Locals or even most Regional tournaments. The big ones are what defines the meta in the TCG.

No shit Sherlock. That's what I'm arguing based on.

 

A good place to check what the current meta is would be duelistgroundz.com, because you seem totally out of the loop with the format while insisting you're in it.

[TFMegamanlan]

Uh... First off, what Arin said. One event does not a meta define.

Blackwings aren't top tier, and IDK why you'd think they were.

Secondly, TCG Rulers use Break. Any build worth its stock uses Break. I'm not talking OCG, I'm talking TCG. Like really, you keep saying I know nothing, yet you keep saying things that are absolutely untrue of the format

Top Tier TCG D-Rulers don't need Break. They already use Blaster, Snipe Hunter, and other cards.
Let me make this clear: Top TCG Players don't like Raigeki Break! They see it as a -1 that isn't worth the space. You may like it but that doesn't mean most players do!
You keep talking as if you don't know the TCG except at the very low levels. I try to keep tabs on top tier decks and top level tournaments. I bet you think that Evilswarms are still a top Tier deck the way your talking.

No shit Sherlock. That's what I'm arguing based on.

A good place to check what the current meta is would be duelistgroundz.com, because you seem totally out of the loop with the format while insisting you're in it.

Your current arguments seem to be based on some Locals or the OCG. I mean your talking of cards that lots of TCG Player's run from.

[Blake]

Top Tier TCG D-Rulers don't need Break. They already use Blaster, Snipe Hunter, and other cards.
Let me make this clear: Top TCG Players don't like Raigeki Break! They see it as a -1 that isn't worth the space. You may like it but that doesn't mean most players do!
You keep talking as if you don't know the TCG except at the very low levels. I try to keep tabs on top tier decks and top level tournaments. I bet you think that Evilswarms are still a top Tier deck the way your talking.

Are you actually fucking serious?

My God, you just have your head so far up your ass you can't see a hint of reason.

Here, look at this:
http://magicianofchaos.forumcommunity.net/?t=55304552

CTRL+F Raigeki Break, would you?

On top of that, the only reason Break is falling out of favor is because Wing Blast wrecks Vanity's Emptiness even harder and destruction is easier to stop. Billy Brake, for example, ran 3 PWWB and no Break.

The TCG Side used Break in Rulers because it's chainable destruction that basically doesn't have a cost. Why? IT'S A DECK THAT SPITS OUT ADVANTAGE.

PWWB does the same thing.

Snipe Hunter's on there once.

So please, tell me more about how Snipe Hunter's more played than Break, as of San Mateo, in the top cut.

I don't know how London's going/went, but that doesn't change that Break and PWWB are/were recently played. A lot.

Your current arguments seem to be based on some Locals or the OCG. I mean your talking of cards that lots of TCG Player's run from.

... Look at the fucking site.

I'm not talking from locals. I don't even have a locals atm. I'm not talking about the OCG.

So please, stop trying to say I'm talkign about the OCG while shoving your fingers in your ears, because the argument isn't working.

[Toffee.]

[Black's giant post]

[Not-so-Radiant Arin]

[Black's giant post]

I tried clicking the X and it wouldn't close. :(

[Althemia]

The latest YCS would strongly disagree.

Blackwings are top Tier, Dark World has been Tier 2 for a while now. Mermail are still Tier 1. You sir do not know of the current Meta at all if this is what your thinking.

Raigeki Break, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast and Vanity's Emptyness are played. (In the TCG most top players look down on others that use Break... I don't personally.) But from what you're saying you sound like an OCG player, not TCG. Which would explain your weird ideas of the meta as well as Break.

7 Dragons got into YCS London out of the Top 8, the other one was Evilswarm. To think that you think Blackwings of all decks are a Tier deck is utterly ridiculous. From what I recall, it only actually had one major top and that was at Toronto. Seeing as how it was at Toronto, it doesn't really count... The deck doesn't do enough to stand up against what is essentially some of the strongest decks we've seen in recent history. The only decks I would say have any chance of competing with them is Evilswarm and Mermail.

Also lol at thinking that Raigeki / PWWB seems like more of an OCG thing, despite near enough all TCG builds playing (for the most part) PWWB from the additional draw power setting it up to be alive at near enough any point in the game.

Oh yeah, and just to blow your argument wide apart:

https://tcg.konami-europe.net/coverage/final-match-alpay-engin-dragon-ruler-vs-patrik-rieder-dragon-ruler/

Ctrl F "Phoenix Wing Wind Blast" and "Raigeki Break".