The Forbidden Trio

[jabber2033]

 

We all know what they do.

 

So how good are these three spells going to be in the upcoming format?

[goddamnit names are a pain]

I think cards like this will be "good" for years to come. And by good, I mean gay

I'm just confused as to why Lance doesn't boost ATK. It doesn't make sense with the effect, yes, but it's a lance. 

 

I see that Lance has the most use, but I personally like Chalice.

Got me 2x Chalice in Battle Pack, and then got 2x Lance for Christmas. Happy to have these guys. They play "nice."

The 800 ATK loss seems far to good in Lance though, considering it screws with ATK boosts via Spells and Traps.

[Zauls]

Lance is definitely the best of the three. I once won a game because I had double Lance set and a Blaster out and he had 2 3k Barbaros out but was on 800 Life. It is the replacement Swiss Army knife that we needed after Book got limited.

Dress is good in Evilswarm but not much else.

Chalice is outclassed these days.

[Toffee.]

Chalice was cool back in the day, before we had Veiler n' junk.
Lance is solid in general.
Dress' issue is the fact that it's semi-useless.

[Zauls]

Chalice was cool back in the day, before we had Veiler n' junk.
Lance is solid in general.
Dress' issue is the fact that it's semi-useless.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say Dress is useless. It stops destruction/targeting from monster effects, which is something that Lance does not. Lance is still better, but Dress has it's niche.

[Sora1499]

[quote name="Saberzauls" post="6328432" timestamp="1388340555"]I wouldn't go as far as to say Dress is useless. It stops destruction/targeting from monster effects, which is something that Lance does not. Lance is still better, but Dress has it's niche.[/quote] He didn't. He said it was semi-useless, which it is since it's effect that prevents the monster from being targeted doesn't work if its already targeted. I've been finding myself not putting Lance in my decks more often than not recently, which is strange cuz the card is great. Dress is undependable. Chalice is outclassed.

[goddamnit names are a pain]

which it is since it's effect that prevents the monster from being targeted doesn't work if its already targeted.

Which I really don't understand. If something can't happen when it already happened, then explain cards like Rainbow Kuriboh and Fiendish Chain. Konami really is stupid.

[玄魔の王]

Not gonna lie, I was expecting a discussion of Banned Spells.

Dress' problem is it needs to be activated preemptively, as opposed to Lance which can come out of thin air. Chalice is only good for decks that also run Skill Drain, because making Barbaros suddenly 3400 is nasty.

[Toffee.]

I wouldn't go as far as to say Dress is useless. It stops destruction/targeting from monster effects, which is something that Lance does not. Lance is still better, but Dress has it's niche.

No, see....
Things you would usually want Dress to protect from, Big Eye, Veiler, etc, etc, it can't do that because said cards have already targeted the monster you would be using Dress on.
Yes, you could use Dress ahead of time, but then said monster in question will result in being met with a different scenario, because once you've used Dress, the opponent can now change his strategy easier.
It's not so much element-of-surprise that Lance can offer.
Or something like that.
Point is, Dress needs more dedication to work to it's fullest, but isn't as easily splashable as Lance is.

[evilfusion]

Which I really don't understand. If something can't happen when it already happened, then explain cards like Rainbow Kuriboh and Fiendish Chain. Konami really is stupid.

 

It is slightly convoluted.

 

However, Rainbow Kuriboh and Chain both prevent ATTACKING. If an attacking monster is cursed with "you can't attack", the attack stops without completing.

 

With targeting, targeting happens BEFORE anything can chain. So if a card is targeted and you then chain a card that says "that card cannot be targeted", targeting already happened. All that's left is to resolve the effect that's targeting. What those types of cards need to say is "negate effects that target this card".

 

Easiest way to think about it is "A monster is lunging at an opponent. Use card that prevents it from attacking. The monster is chained up/deflected/paralyzed/etc. The attack never completed."

 

Targeting is more "I choose that one. Use card to say you can't choose it anymore. Choice was already made before you added that rule."

[Dog King]

I'm just confused as to why Lance doesn't boost ATK. It doesn't make sense with the effect, yes, but it's a lance. 

Because lance makes your monster be uneffected from spells and traps, giving it an attack boost would make the card op

thats why the forbidden cards if they help out a monster they take away attack

if they dont help the monster like chalice they give them attack

 

id say all three are good, like none of them are non usable

[goddamnit names are a pain]

Because lance makes your monster be uneffected from spells and traps, giving it an attack boost would make the card op

I know THAT wouldn't make since. But a lance is a weapon; it by nature should help you deal more damage. Magically enchanted lowering ATK makes sense, I guess. But still using a lance when you didn't have one should boost ATK.

=D

 

And evilfusion, I guess that makes sense. But I still think of it like "I stopped your targeting from going all the way through" which is kinda stupid, so yeah. =3

[玄魔の王]

It is slightly convoluted.

However, Rainbow Kuriboh and Chain both prevent ATTACKING. If an attacking monster is cursed with "you can't attack", the attack stops without completing.

With targeting, targeting happens BEFORE anything can chain. So if a card is targeted and you then chain a card that says "that card cannot be targeted", targeting already happened. All that's left is to resolve the effect that's targeting. What those types of cards need to say is "negate effects that target this card".

Easiest way to think about it is "A monster is lunging at an opponent. Use card that prevents it from attacking. The monster is chained up/deflected/paralyzed/etc. The attack never completed."

Targeting is more "I choose that one. Use card to say you can't choose it anymore. Choice was already made before you added that rule."

Then there's the convoluted interaction between Fiendish Chain and cards like D-Prison...

[The Hounds Of Anubis]

For some reason I expected this to be Chaos Emperor Dragon, Yata-Garasu and Pot of Greed.

How disappointing.

[Dog King]

I know THAT wouldn't make since. But a lance is a weapon; it by nature should help you deal more damage. Magically enchanted lowering ATK makes sense, I guess. But still using a lance when you didn't have one should boost ATK.

=D

 

And evilfusion, I guess that makes sense. But I still think of it like "I stopped your targeting from going all the way through" which is kinda stupid, so yeah. =3

oh for that reason well, umm its a very heavy lance? idk lol

[evilfusion]

Then there's the convoluted interaction between Fiendish Chain and cards like D-Prison...

 

How so?

 

If Fiendish Chain chains to D-Prison, it resolves first, stopping the attack. Since the target is no longer attacking, D-Prison does nothing. And vice versa.

[玄魔の王]

How so?

If Fiendish Chain chains to D-Prison, it resolves first, stopping the attack. Since the target is no longer attacking, D-Prison does nothing. And vice versa.

And that's the key to it - that it invalidates the target. People try to claim it invalidates the activation.

[Trebuchet MS]

Targeting is more "I choose that one. Use card to say you can't choose it anymore. Choice was already made before you added that rule."

And it gets slightly disorienting when you switch to MtG and hexproof/shroud rulings work differently there.

 

If Dress and co. worked that way they'll be several degrees more potent.

[evilfusion]

They think it invalidates D-Prison's activation? That's just people being dumb, then, not because it's complicated. The anti-targeting rulings are complicated and rather dumb.

[Miror B]

And it gets slightly disorienting when you switch to MtG and hexproof/shroud rulings work differently there.

which is why I rarely compare Magic and Yugioh stuff