Agro Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Why is it called revert format? I don't f***ing know. Rule Differences from Current TCG: The first player to go does not Draw to begin their turn. Both players may control Field Spells at the same time. No single card can activate its effect twice in a single chain. (ex. Naturia Beast, Naturia Barkion, Herald of Perfection, LaDD) You'll probably see a lot of similarities with the format Armz and I made about a year ago. I tried to update it as best as I could, but of course I haven't really been paying attention to the game since May, so you can probably guess I may have missed more than a few things. Obviously, I'd love for people to test this, tell me what's good, what needs to be changed, and anything else relevant to trying to balance this format. Let me know. I'll try my best to stick around here a bit to see if it catches on. If it doesn't? Meh, see you in a year. Or longer. Depends on if I get tired of Pokémon X&Y. Give suggestions/comments. No harassment. Follow the rules. You get the gist. I've only listed the changes for now: [Spoiler='Newly Forbidden'] From Limited Left Leg of the Forbidden One Atlantean Dragoons Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning Blaster, Elemental Dragon of Calderas Dark Armed Dragon Gorz the Emissary of Darkness Honest Inzektor Hornet Morphing Jar Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Redox, Elemental Dragon of Crags Tempest, Elemental Dragon of Cyclones Tidal, Elemental Dragon of Cascades T.G. Hyper Librarian Divine Wind of Mist Valley Infernity Launcher Final Countdown Limiter Removal Mind Control Royal Tribute Spellbook of Fate From Unlimited Archlord Kristya Blackwing - Kalut the Moon Shadow Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Chicken Constellar Sombres Crane Crane Cyber Eltanin Evilswarm Kerykeion Infernity Archfiend Infernity Mirage Judgment Dragon Moulinglacia the Elemental Lord Nurse Reficule, the Fallen One Thunder Seahorse World of Prophecy Gladiator Beast Gyzarus Blaze Fenix, the Burning Bombardment Bird Shooting Quasar Dragon Vylon Sigma Constellar Ptolemys M7 Evilswarm Exciton Knight Gaia Dragon, the Thunder Charger Hieratic Dragon King of Atum Number 11: Big Eye Number 88: Gimmick Puppet of Leo Black Whirlwind Cyber Repair Plant Gishki Aquamirror Night Beam Onslaught of the Fire Kings Rekindling Spellbook of Fate Vylon Element Bad Reaction to Simochi Chain Material Geargiagear [/spoiler] [spoiler='Newly Limited'] From Forbidden: Heavy Storm Solemn Judgment From Semi: Lonefire Blossom Tragoedia Chain Strike Mirror Force From Unlimited: Coach Soldier Wolfberk Geargiarmor Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World Grandsoil the Elemental Lord High Priestess of Prophecy Madolche Hootcake Master Hyperion Mermail Abysslinde Mermail Abyssteus Mezuki Plaguespreader Zombie Snoww, Unlight of Dark World Temperance of Prophecy Tour Guide from the Underworld Watthopper Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei" Karakuri Steel Shogun mdl 00X "Bureido" Evilswarm Ophion Evolzar Dolkka Evolzar Laggia Gear Gigant X Madolche Queen Tiaramisu Advanced Heraldry Art Fire Formation - Tenki Forbidden Lance Forbidden Chalice Gravekeeper's Steele Hieratic Seal of Convocation Madolche Chateau Miracle Fusion Mystical Space Typhoon Salvage Spellbook of Secrets Swords of Revealing Light Wave-Motion Cannon Wind-Up Factory Abyss-sphere Breakthrough Skill Call of the Haunted Deck Devastation Virus Fiendish Chain Hysteric Party Just Desserts Secret Barrel [/spoiler] [spoiler='Newly Semi-Limited'] From Limited: Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind Debris Dragon Inzektor Dragonfly Neo-Spacian Grand Mole Book of Moon Dimensional Fissure Macro Cosmos Soul Drain From Unlimited: Destiny HERO - Malicious Geargiaccelerator Harpie Channeler Necro Gardna Necrovalley Level Limit - Area B Gravity Bind Magic Cylinder Royal Decree Skill Drain [/spoiler] [spoiler='Newly Unlimited'] From Forbidden: Burner, Dragon Ruler of Sparks Lightning, Dragon Ruler of Drafts Reactan, Dragon Ruler of Pebbles Stream, Dragon Ruler of Droplets From Limited: Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Spirit Gladiator Beast Bestiari Thunder King Rai-Oh Formula Synchron Gold Sarcophagus One for One Primal Seed Sacred Sword of the Seven Stars From Semi: Summoner Monk [/spoiler] I don't know where new stuff goes: Artifact Beagalltach Bujinji Crane Chronomaly Negra Disk Ghostrick Skeleton Artifact Durandal Oreia, the Sylvan High Arbiter Artifact Movement Sylvan Charity Theosophy of the Artifacts Bujin Yamato Galaxy Soldier Madolche Anjelly Noble Knight Medraut Ghostrick Parade Hysteric Sign Evo-Singularity Bujin Hirume Banlist Watchlist: Gravekeeper's Recruiter House Duston Norito the Moral Leader Full Armored Crystal Zero Lancer Dragged Down into the Grave Miracle Fertilizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultravires Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 So just nerf all playable archetypes into unplayability, okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 So just nerf all playable archetypes into unplayability, okay. The cards hit on this list were hit for problematic design. Many if not most never deserved to be made in the first place. A lot of the decks currently playable got hit badly, yes, but that's due more to the godawful design of the cards involved than some sort of imaginary hatred of the meta decks themselves. There's an saying we use around here that goes something like "If it relies on broken cards, it doesn't deserve to be a deck." That applies here. I didn't hit archetypes. I hit the problematic cards within them. And Konami's been stacking cards like that up since the GX era. But feel free to ignore than many of the decks are still very much playable in this format such as Constellars or Fire Fists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeebYGO Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Can't tell if trolling or trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Can't tell if trolling or trolling I assure you, this list is completely serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suibon Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I only find it serious for I've dabbled on things like this myself while in Pojo, but some of these moves are questionable to me. But we'll settle at two things for now -- -- first is the lack of Rescue Rabbit. If you think that Geargiagear summoning patently obvious materials for a R4 Exceed Summon attempt is problematic enough to be banned here, why not do the same thing to Rabbit? As March 2012 has amply demonstrated, the rewards of having a R4 Exceed on the field without the user jumping through hoops to get to it outstrips the risks of drawing vanilla. If nothing else, one must ask for consistency here -- even at one it still sees play, because a break-even beatstick is a tempting thing to have (so say Evilswarms). Second is the presence of Herald of Perfection. Given that the Ritual is hardly an offensive gem and must rely on the services of big throbbing beatsticks like fellow cellmate Archlord Kristya to think of winning games, how would you be able to stop opponents from running over it without Krystia and with the ruling preventing any card from using its effect more than once in a chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 I only find it serious for I've dabbled on things like this myself while in Pojo, but some of these moves are questionable to me. But we'll settle at two things for now -- -- first is the lack of Rescue Rabbit. If you think that Geargiagear summoning patently obvious materials for a R4 Exceed Summon attempt is problematic enough to be banned here, why not do the same thing to Rabbit? As March 2012 has amply demonstrated, the rewards of having a R4 Exceed on the field without the user jumping through hoops to get to it outstrips the risks of drawing vanilla. If nothing else, one must ask for consistency here -- even at one it still sees play, because a break-even beatstick is a tempting thing to have (so say Evilswarms). Second is the presence of Herald of Perfection. Given that the Ritual is hardly an offensive gem and must rely on the services of big throbbing beatsticks like fellow cellmate Archlord Kristya to think of winning games, how would you be able to stop opponents from running over it without Krystia and with the ruling preventing any card from using its effect more than once in a chain? Rabbit usually takes up Normal summon and can only summon Normal Monsters. It's mere presence means a deck has to put in liabilities, specifically now that it's at 1. (notice how all the decks that use Rabbit virtually disappeared once it got limited?) It also destroys its targets at the end phase. Geargiagear doesn't have any of those problems. It's only downside is you have to wait a turn to use it. Don't assume people immediately Xyz with it, either. I've watched more than a few duels where they've gone into a whole breath of options like Arsenal or Armor. In summary, Rabbit is virtually unusable @1. How about Geargiagear? Herald was initially left off the list because of the rule change, so I'll consider it's movement, but as for the moment, it has a track record of just being a... como se dice... total bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maeriberii Haan Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Hmm, so what is the main goal of the list/format? Can't really comment before I'm sure about what your goal is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog King Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 oh lol i would play this but the list is tooooooooo big so bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suibon Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Hmm, so what is the main goal of the list/format? Can't really comment before I'm sure about what your goal is. Maybe it's the years getting on to me, but is it so important to have a goal other than dealing with every offending card accordingly? Rabbit is virtually unusable @1. Evilswarms use it as tech -- you really can't throw up one Ophion after the other without break-even plays, which is what Kerykeion and Rescue Rabbit provide. Now the question is whether those plays should be allowed. Rabbit usually takes up Normal summon I don't understand. No, let me rephrase that -- I've used that line before myself (with other cards that really were limited that way), and have come to regret it -- good effects have a way to be and remain playable even with restrictions that limit activation to the Normal Summon, which isn't that much of a hoop to jump in the first place. and can only summon Normal Monsters Dino Rabbit users two years back didn't think drawing Normals was frustrating enough to quit using the deck altogether -- indeed, it became in due time a Tier 1 build alongside Wind-Ups and Inzektors. I bet it's even less frustrating now that it's at 1 and firmly a tech card to decks that need it and have no superior synergistic options -- I'm innumerate and ashamed of it, but I can imagine Evilswarm users are drawing into two Heliotrope before or with Rabbit far less than Dino Rabbit users were drawing into double Kabazauls or Sabersaurus in the course of a duel. It also destroys its targets at the end phase. You'd use them to Exceed Summon something anyway (preferably after running over something or attacking directly unimpeded) -- so who cares about things that never ever happen? Herald was initially left off the list because of the rule change, so I'll consider it's movement, but as for the moment, it has a track record of just being a... como se dice... total b****. How so? With the normal list Herald of Perfection can't run over anything by itself in addition to it consuming in-hand resources to negate -- with your list, you have that, and with the ruling it's become a far costlier and harder-to-summon LADD. Stable stats, but otherwise unable to run over anything above 1800 ATK and unable to deal with removal or negation more than once in a chain, which it was once able to do at the cost of a discard. I personally think it's not a problem even today due to the design constraints I outlined earlier -- and now you made it weaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Hmm, so what is the main goal of the list/format? Can't really comment before I'm sure about what your goal is. Undo years of Konami not giving much of a shit about balance. Evilswarms use it as tech -- you really can't throw up one Ophion after the other without break-even plays, which is what Kerykeion and Rescue Rabbit provide. Now the question is whether those plays should be allowed. I don't understand. No, let me rephrase that -- I've used that line before myself (with other cards that really were limited that way), and have come to regret it -- good effects have a way to be and remain playable even with restrictions that limit activation to the Normal Summon, which isn't that much of a hoop to jump in the first place. It's going to take up a Normal Summon. There are only 2 decks that can even still use Rescue Rabbit, and neither can afford to put in too many cards to focus on getting around what using up the NS on it affects, otherwise the entire deck suffers. That's part of what makes Rabbit much more reasonable @1. Dino Rabbit users two years back didn't think drawing Normals was frustrating enough to quit using the deck altogether -- indeed, it became in due time a Tier 1 build alongside Wind-Ups and Inzektors. Dino Rabbit users two years ago didn't only have one Rabbit. Did you notice that deck doesn't exist anymore? I bet it's even less frustrating now that it's at 1 and firmly a tech card to decks that need it and have no superior synergistic options -- I'm innumerate and ashamed of it, but I can imagine Evilswarm users are drawing into two Heliotrope before or with Rabbit far less than Dino Rabbit users were drawing into double Kabazauls or Sabersaurus in the course of a duel. You'd use them to Exceed Summon something anyway (preferably after running over something or attacking directly unimpeded) -- so who cares about things that never ever happen? The destruction matters because you're never going to leave the monsters on the field. You're ALWAYS going to Xyz with it. There's no other play. You're forgetting that the point here is comparing it to Geargiagear. You may attack before Xyzing with Rabbit, sure, but that's it. That's ALL you're doing. And there's a MUCH higher probability you won't have the targets you need for Rabbit than you will for Geargiagear. Rabbit was a problem at 3, yes, not so much anymore. Geargiagear is a problem no matter what it's at. That's why one is banned and the other isn't. You can argue against Rabbit all you want, but Geargiagear is clearly more problematic. That's why one is banned and the other isn't. How so? With the normal list Herald of Perfection can't run over anything by itself in addition to it consuming in-hand resources to negate -- with your list, you have that, and with the ruling it's become a far costlier and harder-to-summon LADD. Stable stats, but otherwise unable to run over anything above 1800 ATK and unable to deal with removal or negation more than once in a chain, which it was once able to do at the cost of a discard. I personally think it's not a problem even today due to the design constraints I outlined earlier -- and now you made it weaker. Herald is a problem today, whether it's competitive or not is not the issue. My concern is only with the design of the card. I may move it off of forbidden at some point due to the rule change I've made, however, it can still be problematic and I'd like it to be tested out first in this format before I feel comfortable having it played... especially since I'm considering putting ARA to 3 here. Not really a point I'd like to make, but more an observation: I took out Shi-En & Durandal, and am considering whether to do the same with Norito. You wanted consistency, there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Agro this is fucking terrible Even ignoring the fact that massive banlists like these are a bad idea, you hit everything incorrectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted March 8, 2014 Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Me being me the only issue I have with the list is Hyper Librarian. Quasar makes enough sense. Hyper is a Draw engine....that exists at one.... I mean with that logic I think Upstart and Reckless could get hit. But I mean Formula did go to 3....which isn't the best idea. Its a really neat idea, imo. Also Magician of Faith is already at 1. =D I can really appreciate that you guys agree that if Skill and Decree got hit they should get hit to 2. Drives me crazy when people think they need bans. This is good and all, but it does need some work. I feel some archetypes got crushed a bit too hard, but I dun play em so i dun care. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted March 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2014 Agro this is f***ing terrible Even ignoring the fact that massive banlists like these are a bad idea, you hit everything incorrectly. Then help out. Especially with the new stuff. Particularly because I get scared when the only person I see commenting positively is that TechGenus dude. EDIT: Moved all the new cards off the list and into a separate side so people can actually help me figure out where they should be going. Removed Herald of Perfection from list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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