Unbanning cards becuase they can be countered : Debate

[CrabHelmet]

Unfortunately for all of you' date=' both Atem's banlist and Konami's ban list are failures. Why? Because ban lists for IRL SHOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HOW DIFFICULT A CARD IS TO GET, AND ON THE INTERNET, SHOULD NOT.

[/quote']

 

Because turning Yugimonz into a money game is clearly good for the players, right?

 

Good for the Pro's who buy the cards, and irrelevant to the average player down the block who doesn't go to regionals/SJC's.

 

So we have Money Format for pros and Coin Flip Format for everyone else, neither of which requires the slightest degree of skill? Good job, the game is dead.

 

Konami's list: Considering how hard it is to get a Dark Armed Dragon' date=' it is fair that it is not banned IRL, because if you pay that much money, you should be allowed to go to wins prizes and try to make more money than you spent. Yugioh is a market more than it is a game, and that is what the Ban list IRL should reflect. However, Konami's ban list fails on the internet when everyone can get any card they want.

[/quote']

 

Again, money game. Ban lists should be created for the players, not for UDE's benefit. They aren't, but they should be. What you are advocating would make success even more directly proportional to wealth than it already is.

 

What good does banning a $250 card do? Makes the people who payed for it find no use for it. They ARE the players, making it a money game helps the pro's who are prepared to spend that much money on the game. It is only bad for the players who are unwilling to spend that much money to have a top tier deck. (who can always proxy unofficially anyway, so they can still have fun)

 

Victory should be determined by skill, not by who's willing to shell out $250 for every card in their deck. Even if casual players can proxy them, they're still stuck with a format that doesn't take skill - you know, like the one we're in right now.

 

Atem's List: The list would fail IRL' date=' and would cause imminent market danger to UDE. (Though I strongly agree concerning Snipe, Frog, and RFTDD for both IRL and an interweb list) Even for the internet use, I question banning DDV and Norales, which, if anyone could deck (even IRL, still easy to get stuff) should be unlimited and limited respectively, especially if Phantom of Chaos is banned in Norales' case. And is the Atem list from that Atem the Pharoah guy from Pojo/YF/other YGO sites, because I may have traded with him once. xD

[/quote']

 

Norleras is better than Chaos Emperor Dragon in terms of advantage, rewards bad play, and is a total reset button. DDV's cost is incredibly easy to pay, and basically wins games on its own in the same way that CCV does.

 

I go to YF, and I'm fairly sure that Pharaoh Atem is someone completely unrelated to YF's atem the pharaoh.

 

DDV does not win the game on its own unless used against a deck that primarily uses a lot of monsters that DDV would hit. I understand that it is good, but it is not close to banworthy. Norleras without phantom isn't the easiest thing to summon, though it is pretty brutal with Feather of the Phoenix/3 valleys. But alas, only that single dedicated deck type can run it, and it cannot win first turn, so it is not entirely broken.

 

DDV does win on its own, particularly thanks to the easy hand look plus the removal of searchable monsters.

 

DAD also can't FTK, also requires its own deck, and also generates a ridiculous amount of advantage.

 

 

Nowhere have you stated why a perfect YVD banlist would not also work IRL. All you've done is make one unsubstantiated claim about UDE's market share. Oh, and you said that people get stuck with cards they can't use, which happens to be what happens whenever you ban a card.

 

Why would a YVD list not work?

 

Because no one would make money

 

I'm going to stop reading there and give you a helpful link.

[Static]

Unfortunately for all of you' date=' both Atem's banlist and Konami's ban list are failures. Why? Because ban lists for IRL SHOULD TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HOW DIFFICULT A CARD IS TO GET, AND ON THE INTERNET, SHOULD NOT.

[/quote']

 

Because turning Yugimonz into a money game is clearly good for the players, right?

 

Good for the Pro's who buy the cards, and irrelevant to the average player down the block who doesn't go to regionals/SJC's.

 

So we have Money Format for pros and Coin Flip Format for everyone else, neither of which requires the slightest degree of skill? Good job, the game is dead.

 

Konami's list: Considering how hard it is to get a Dark Armed Dragon' date=' it is fair that it is not banned IRL, because if you pay that much money, you should be allowed to go to wins prizes and try to make more money than you spent. Yugioh is a market more than it is a game, and that is what the Ban list IRL should reflect. However, Konami's ban list fails on the internet when everyone can get any card they want.

[/quote']

 

Again, money game. Ban lists should be created for the players, not for UDE's benefit. They aren't, but they should be. What you are advocating would make success even more directly proportional to wealth than it already is.

 

What good does banning a $250 card do? Makes the people who payed for it find no use for it. They ARE the players, making it a money game helps the pro's who are prepared to spend that much money on the game. It is only bad for the players who are unwilling to spend that much money to have a top tier deck. (who can always proxy unofficially anyway, so they can still have fun)

 

Victory should be determined by skill, not by who's willing to shell out $250 for every card in their deck. Even if casual players can proxy them, they're still stuck with a format that doesn't take skill - you know, like the one we're in right now.

 

Atem's List: The list would fail IRL' date=' and would cause imminent market danger to UDE. (Though I strongly agree concerning Snipe, Frog, and RFTDD for both IRL and an interweb list) Even for the internet use, I question banning DDV and Norales, which, if anyone could deck (even IRL, still easy to get stuff) should be unlimited and limited respectively, especially if Phantom of Chaos is banned in Norales' case. And is the Atem list from that Atem the Pharoah guy from Pojo/YF/other YGO sites, because I may have traded with him once. xD

[/quote']

 

Norleras is better than Chaos Emperor Dragon in terms of advantage, rewards bad play, and is a total reset button. DDV's cost is incredibly easy to pay, and basically wins games on its own in the same way that CCV does.

 

I go to YF, and I'm fairly sure that Pharaoh Atem is someone completely unrelated to YF's atem the pharaoh.

 

DDV does not win the game on its own unless used against a deck that primarily uses a lot of monsters that DDV would hit. I understand that it is good, but it is not close to banworthy. Norleras without phantom isn't the easiest thing to summon, though it is pretty brutal with Feather of the Phoenix/3 valleys. But alas, only that single dedicated deck type can run it, and it cannot win first turn, so it is not entirely broken.

 

DDV does win on its own, particularly thanks to the easy hand look plus the removal of searchable monsters.

 

DAD also can't FTK, also requires its own deck, and also generates a ridiculous amount of advantage.

 

 

Nowhere have you stated why a perfect YVD banlist would not also work IRL. All you've done is make one unsubstantiated claim about UDE's market share. Oh, and you said that people get stuck with cards they can't use, which happens to be what happens whenever you ban a card.

 

Why would a YVD list not work?

 

Because no one would make money

 

I'm going to stop reading there and give you a helpful link.

 

Right after I edit my post to say I know what it means and all.

 

POINT TAKEN. I secede, this argument is silly when I was trying to argue for realism's sake and the rest of you for Idealism's sake.

 

You winz, because I agree with you Ideally, and I would not have argued if I was talking about "Should"

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Price shouldn't matted at all when it comes to making a banlist. It should entirely be about the health of the game.

 

Why is Dark Armed Dragon at 3 fair when I paid 100 dollars for it, yet Dark Armed Dragon at 3 when I paid 20 dollars for it suddenly unfair?

[Static]

Price shouldn't matted at all when it comes to making a banlist. It should entirely be about the health of the game.

 

Why is Dark Armed Dragon at 3 fair when I paid 100 dollars for it' date=' yet Dark Armed Dragon at 3 when I paid 20 dollars for it suddenly unfair?

[/quote']

 

Because realistically, when its worth 100, people are more likely to buy the product that has it in there. I'm not saying its right, its just realistically the way that it will be done if the money maker is the one who makes the list.

[cyberdude]

Becouse price detremes the ban list like static said konami is intrested as all corperations in the world is not the people they sell to but just to make the most money in the shortest amount of time think of it this way do you honestly think konami whould ban a card thats selling out faster then smash brothers or whould they ban the cheap alternetive so you whould have to buy the expensive stuff

[b7hamma]

"Price/rarity should be taken in account blablabla"

 

NEWSFLASH GUYZ! Neither Konami nor UDE sees a cent of that 250$ DAD. They only make money of boosters and boxes.

 

It's called second market. Konami/UDE doesn't set prices, dumbasses who pay a fortune for cardboard does.

[cyberdude]

Actually yes they do retailers often buy there singles direct from konami

[b7hamma]

Actually yes they do retailers often buy there singles direct from konami

 

Proof or GTFO

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Dark Spiritual Art can counter itself. Oh, but wait, you don't care about counters! It's a Pot of Greed. Ban it.

[cyberdude]

How the hell do you suggest i prove common sense get order files hack into konami and steal documents what

[CrabHelmet]

Dark Spiritual Art can counter itself. Oh' date=' but wait, you don't care about counters! It's a Pot of Greed. Ban it.

[/quote']

 

Bad logic is bad.

 

1. Dark Spirit Art - Greed is a +0.

2. Dark Spirit Art - Greed is a trap.

3. Dark Spirit Art - Greed only works in decks with significant amounts of DARK monsters.

4. Dark Spirit Art - Greed has an additional built-in weakness, and the opponent loses no advantage by exploiting it. That's not the same as saying that the opponent must always have a Solemn Judgment ready, just in case.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

How the hell do you suggest i prove common sense get order files hack into konami and steal documents what

 

I never heard of stores directly buying singles from Konami either. In any case, I don't feel like googling it or whatever, so... do it for me.

[cyberdude]

I never said stores i said retailers like Gatheringground.com

[Guest PikaPerson01]

I never said stores i said retailers like Gatheringground.com

 

Never heard that either. Proof plz?

[cyberdude]

Wait what does it really matter where geting off topic here

[Guest PikaPerson01]

The topic veered towards "should a banlist be defined by the prices of cards?" Someone argued that Konami wouldn't do that, because it'd be taking money out of them. Then, someone else said that Konami doesn't sell the cards individually. You argued otherwise. Now prove it.

[cyberdude]

Again im not going to search for somthing i wont find tahts common knowledge annywhey and has liltle to do with the topic at hand

[Gravitize Me Cap'n!]

Again im not going to search for somthing i wont find tahts common knowledge annywhey and has liltle to do with the topic at hand

 

No it's not common knowledge or they would've known it, it's made up beliefs fabricated into facts. So proof or it didn't happen.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

It's common knowledge that the fisherman of New York harbor have sex with every single fish they catch before they sell it. Sometimes while the fish is still alive.

 

Don't bother asking me for a source because it's common knowledge. Enjoy your tuna sandwich.

[cyberdude]

i get your point but the proof that you ask for is almost impossble to obtain

and in case of future refence i hate tuna fish

[Guest PikaPerson01]

It's normally a bit hard to obtain proof that doesn't exist.

[cyberdude]

Fine for the sake of the arguement and becouse im fighting a losing battle well say your right

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Because being right over the internet is so important.. >_>

[Gravitize Me Cap'n!]

i get your point but the proof that you ask for is almost impossble to obtain

and in case of future refence i hate tuna fish

 

Then what's with your attempt at using gatheringground.com as reference when you clearly have no proof. It's common knowledge that Kraft tuna sandwiches are made from pre-digested and mechanically-separated AAA batteries.

[cyberdude]

Uhhm i wasnt useing gathering ground as a refrence to the wbuying its refrenceing the types of stores i was talking about