CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 So the overall perception is that this card is a savior for all those poor Nekroz decks that are getting opresses by mean backrows. It's a good roadblock, yes. But people seem to be missing a single thing. By playing it, YOU YOURSELF, can't play any answers.. Any normal summoned Qliphort can run over this. Dante can. Shaddoll Dragon or Squamata can. SUANNI CAN for heaven's sake. As good as this card is, it locks you into playing no answers. Its sword is double-edged, albeit the artwork doesn't show it. It's not a miracle cure. Best case scenario it's a very poor quality bandage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Nekroz literally run ZERO answers and have just about NO room to. …Valk can protect this thing for days. Your job is to KILL THEM when you summon this. You basically use this to get a free "do whatever the f*** you want" turn…what is BAD about that? And if it stops you, just overlay with it. If you can't honestly protect this thing or account for it's "drawback" then you're using it wrong. This format (I mean in the OCG, at least…f***, it will be this way in a few months when they hit america as well) is a race to OTK format, largely. This helps you OTK. I just saw your deck! You also run no answers! Vanity's, if you count it, can be played first/you can just save Denko. Hell, Exomirror can even tribute this thing if need be. Not to mention, it also pushes for game with that 1700. This is a miracle cure for a deck with no answers/protection. I'm still not seeing how something that can temporarily lock but has no protection is better than this. And this is one card. The other setup can take 2-3. A tribute summoned Qliphort can most often run over anything you summoned using Releaser, as well. Releaser can do stuff in the mirror. Hell, I might even side it for the mirror and remove a Valk. But accounting for the lesser of three evils should involve maining side deck cards. Denko is shit in the mirror, save vanities. I would side it out. Other than that, it's a damn solid card. Also this card is my b****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 You could just read my post since I never used the sentence "this card is bad". I'm just saying it's not Jesus incarnated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 You could just read my post since I never used the sentence "this card is bad". I'm just saying it's not Jesus incarnated. You said this card has downsides and is easily destroyed. My goal was to address that. You didn't say it was bad, but you're telling me there is better when there really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Kinda' wish this were a Warrior.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Kinda' wish this were a Warrior.. That would be too amazing =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 In contort. WHAT BACKROW ARE YOU USING THAT COULD POSSIBLY BE HINDERED BY THIS? Necloths run 3 Traps. and thats 3 Vanity. Thats it. They run nothing else. There is nothing to hinder. They run 9 cards in total. 3 MST, 3 This, and 3 Vanity. EVERYTHING ELSE is tailored to consistency and maintaining a steady flow of resources. You can't take away from that without SEVERELY hurting the deck. Even if you remove 1 card, you'll notice a massive difference. And you can't take away from the other section either, because then it opens up parellels to cockblock the deck. There is literally no room in the deck for variation (outside of the extra deck at least) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 I didn't mean that by playing this, you're hidering yourself. Just that you simply CAN'T play backrow answers even if you wanted to. That's why your opponent is as free to do stuff as you are. If you drop this on a kill turn, and they manage to survive, suddenly YOU'RE fucked since it's THEM who get to do whatever the hell they want, knowing there will be no answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 . There is literally no room in the deck for variation (outside of the extra deck at least) Sounds terrible. Why would anyone play an archetype like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 That would be too amazing =DWould also defeat the purpose of it's name/concept, which I'm fully aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 because its the first archetype of rituals that aren't based on retarded loops (looking at you Gishki) AND actually good. I didn't mean that by playing this, you're hidering yourself. Just that you simply CAN'T play backrow answers even if you wanted to. That's why your opponent is as free to do stuff as you are. If you drop this on a kill turn, and they manage to survive, suddenly YOU'RE f***ed since it's THEM who get to do whatever the hell they want, knowing there will be no answers. Even if you wanted to, you can't run other s***. You'd kill the deck in the process. What part of "there is no room for anything else" do you not understand? The deck space is sooo tight as is, that when we do get access to Gungnir (officially at least, regarding DN), its going to be extremely difficult trying to find space for it, as well as Tidal in the process if you want access to rank 7s as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 What part of "this is not a miraculous lifesaver" do YOU not understand? I can ask the same thing. And sorry. There is space. 3 Manju 3 Unicore 3 Clausolas 3 Brionac 3 Shrit 2 Trish 3 RotA 3 Rites 3 Necromirror 2 Kaleidomirror 3 MST 3 Vanity's 34 cards. Valkyrus and Deceisive Armor are up to your liking, but let's say you run 2 Valkyrus. 4 free slots, possible even 5. Maybe 6 if you cut down to 2 MSTs. Seriously. There is room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 OCG just runs Senju as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 OCG just runs Senju as well …says who, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 …says who, and why? http://www.ygorganization.com/ocg-10272014-japan-decklists/ consistency, and shockmaster mostly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 …says who, and why? Senju is an additional searcher for Clausolas/Brio, which in turn searches everything else in the deck. It takes the already drastically low chance of a brick hand, and lowers it even further. What part of "this is not a miraculous lifesaver" do YOU not understand? I can ask the same thing. And sorry. There is space. 3 Manju 3 Unicore 3 Clausolas 3 Brionac 3 Shrit 2 Trish 3 RotA 3 Rites 3 Necromirror 2 Kaleidomirror 3 MST 3 Vanity's 34 cards. Valkyrus and Deceisive Armor are up to your liking, but let's say you run 2 Valkyrus. 4 free slots, possible even 5. Maybe 6 if you cut down to 2 MSTs. Seriously. There is room. Okay. Then why don't you tell us what you'd use instead of Sekka. Because none of the Djinns come even close to what Sekka does. How are you going to bypass the backrow in a backrow-heavy format without hurting your speed (This excludes traps, because Traps force you to wait a turn, while Denka immediately solves the problem for a turn or 2, which is more than enough for you to end the game). What miracle cure do you have that could possibly do better than Sekka? Because I'm pretty damn sure there isn't one. This has been tested again, and again, and again. 3 Sekka is flat-out staple in Necloths. If you aren't going to run 3 Sekka, then don't run Necloths, because you'll constantly be ramming into backrows as simple as Compulse or BTS completely halting your turn and advantages., and you won't be able to do a damn thing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 If you aren't going to run 3 Sekka, then don't run Necloths Tell that to all those lists who topped in Winter's link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Tell that to all those lists who topped in Winter's link. This is the OCG. Where apparently running ONE Claus is ok. ... However, I'm considering dropping a shrit or a claus because I want to continue to test this deck in as many ways as possible. Also, this will all change soon. SECE is supporting Necloths. We may stop having Vanity's. Etc. I realize that in an environment where Necloths are the only Tier one deck, yes, Denko is shit. But the TCG has other meta ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Tell that to all those lists who topped in Winter's link. To be fair that may be cause ShockMaster is a lot more terrifying for Necloths than S/T especially when DDT is such a effective deck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Qliphorts and Shaddolls exist in OCG as well. ONLY thing we have that they don't is Burning Abyss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Qliphorts and Shaddolls exist in OCG as well. ONLY thing we have that they don't is Burning Abyss. >Only >Burning Abyss are topping here like nuts >Denko would fight Burning Abyss Also, their ban lists are s***, which can alter the meta a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted November 8, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 BTH@2. Compulse@3. Judgement@1. I'd argue OCG backrow is way more scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 This is the OCG. Where apparently running ONE Claus is ok. ... However, I'm considering dropping a shrit or a claus because I want to continue to test this deck in as many ways as possible. Also, this will all change soon. SECE is supporting Necloths. We may stop having Vanity's. Etc. I realize that in an environment where Necloths are the only Tier one deck, yes, Denko is s***. But the TCG has other meta ATM. There are atleast 3 other decks that are terrifyingly powerful Skilldrain.dek Shocklaw.dek Shaddoll.....you sir don't know OCG BTH@2. Compulse@3. Judgement@1. I'd argue OCG backrow is way more scary. *TT @3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goddamnit names are a pain Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 BTH@2. Compulse@3. Judgement@1. I'd argue OCG backrow is way more scary. Heavy Storm. I would also like to point put that the OCG has people who think Claus should be ran at 1. And Shrit….holy fuck, these deck lists suck ass. I'm going to test Claus and Shrit at 2 (in all ways), and then see if they can afford that. If they can, I'll add Releaser. Denko, at the very least, is a 3 Side Deck card. If Necloth become the top dog over here, I'll side. Until then, nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted November 8, 2014 Report Share Posted November 8, 2014 Tell that to all those lists who topped in Winter's link. The OCG has Heavy Storm. Denko Sekka isn't needed when you have heavy storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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