[Archetype] Nethersoul

[-Noel-]

Welp, seeing more and more archetype threads lately encouraged me to make one. I wanna tell any of you who have seen Mirage Guardians and now reading this that that archetype was actually made from a single 1v1 card; Yggdrasil, and now I'll do the same thing:

 

[spoiler='Nethersoul Witch']

Templates credits to Zextra

You can discard 1 card; add 1 "Book of Life" from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand. During your Main Phase: You can banish this card and 2 Zombie-Type monsters from your Graveyard; Special Summon 1 "Dragonecro Nethersoul Dragon" from your Extra Deck or Graveyard. (This Special Summon is treated as a Fusion Summon.) You can only use 1 "Nethersoul Witch" effect per turn, and only once that turn.

 

As a single card for TCG, this one enable a Dragonecro play without relying on a dead draw early game like Dragon's Mirror or currently banned Super Poly. Also open with it is not as bad as Mirror since you can use another of its effect to collect a copy of Monster Reborn while also fueling. And if opponent have made some play, open with this and another Zombie in hand mean an instant R4 that can also banish something from opponent's Graveyard.

 

Another note. Its typing is intentionally, since being a Zombie seems out of question, both balance and flavor-wise.

[/spoiler]

 

With someone complaint about Mirage Guardians' uber advantage, every monsters in this archetype will be decided like Witch, with 1 ignition effect with a discard cost that will burn your hand in no time if use together and another ignition effect from Graveyard, restricted even more with hard OPT. Their main playstyle is to merge with typical Zombie Deck with Zombie Master, Mezuki, Plague and stuffs that help them bring out their DARK Dragon-Type big boss from Extra Deck, including Dragonecro and TCG Duel Dragons like Beelze, Level 10 counterpart of said Dragons, Hot Red or even Void Ogre, or an archetypal boss like Immortal Dragon who specifically require Plague as a Tuner.

 

[spoiler='Effect Monsters']

[spoiler='Nethersoul Caster']

You can discard 1 card; add 1 "Nethersoul" Spell/Trap Card from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand. During your Main Phase: You can banish this card from your Graveyard; send 1 DARK "Nethersoul" monster and 1 DARK Zombie-Type monster from your Deck to the Graveyard. You can only use 1 "Nethersoul Caster" effect per turn, and only once that turn.

From testing, I found out that even if I change from "Nethersoul" Spell/Trap to "Nethersoul Possession", it'd still make almost no difference XD.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Nethersoul Summoner']

You can discard 1 card; Special Summon 1 Level 4 or lower "Nethersoul" monster from your hand or Deck. You cannot Special Summon monsters for the rest of this turn, except for Zombie-Type and DARK Dragon-Type monsters. You can banish this card and 1 Zombie-Type monster from your Graveyard; Special Summon 1 "Nethersoul" monster from your Graveyard. You can only use 1 "Nethersoul Summoner" effect per turn, and only once that turn.

A T1 Beelze and an archetypal Mezuki with more cost.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Nethersoul Dark Dragon']

You can discard 1 card, then target 1 card your opponent controls; send it to the Graveyard. During your Main Phase: You can banish this card from your Graveyard, then target 1 "Nethersoul" card in your Graveyard; add it to your hand. You can only use 1 "Nethersoul Dark Dragon" effect per turn, and only once that turn

A spot removal that can be Summoned through Book of Life and Mezuki and being a Ritual's target for its better effect under Zombie World, also can retrieve cards you milled with Possession.

[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Synchro Monster']

[spoiler='Nethersoul Immortal Dragon']

Plaguespreader Zombie" + 1 or more non-Tuner "Nethersoul" monster

When this card is Synchro Summoned: You can add 1 "Zombie World" from your Deck to your hand. You can discard 1 card; destroy 1 card on the field. During your opponent's End Phase, if you control no monsters and the only monsters in your Graveyard are Zombie-Type monsters: You can Special Summon this card from your Graveyard. You can only use 1 "Nethersoul Immortal Dragon" effect per turn, and only once that turn.

Anyone who use this gonna have a hard time when choosing between searching Zombie World that also help with its last effect when you're losing and a removal that not targeting.

[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Spells']

[spoiler='Nethersoul Ritual']

Activate 1 of these effects. You can only activate 1 "Nethersoul Ritual" per turn.

● Fusion Summon 1 "Dragonecro Nethersoul Dragon" from your Extra Deck or Graveyard, banishing monsters from your side of the field or either player's Graveyard as Fusion Materials.

● Banish 1 DARK Tuner and 1 Level 6 or higher Zombie-Type "Dragon" monster from your Graveyard, then Special Summon 1 Level 10 DARK Dragon-Type Synchro Monster from your Extra Deck. (This Special Summon is treated as a Synchro Summon.) That monster is unaffected by your opponent's card effects until the end of this turn.

A Miracle Fusion or Miracle Tuning with specific target and more benefits.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Nethersoul Possession']

Excavate the top 5 cards of your Deck, you can send any excavated "Nethersoul" cards and/or Zombie-Type monsters to the Graveyard, also shuffle the rest back into the Deck. Then, if 2 or more cards were sent to the Graveyard by this effect, add 1 Level 4 or lower "Nethersoul" monster from your Deck to your hand. You cannot Special Summon monsters during the turn you activate this card, except for Zombie-Type and Dragon-Type monsters. You can only activate 1 "Nethersoul Possession" per turn.

Think of this as Solar Recharge for LS. An always 3-off that let you setup your Graveyard while being a ROTA for the deck. Though the restriction is fairly huge as it not let your just-added Summoner SS another Nethersoul from the deck even under Zombie World.

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Nethersoul Gate']

Target 1 "Nethersoul" monster in your Graveyard; Special Summon it. You cannot Special Summon monsters from your Graveyard for the rest of this turn. If you control a face-up "Nethersoul" monster and have no cards in your hand: You can banish this card from your Graveyard; draw 1 card, then you can shuffle 1 monster from either Graveyard into the Deck. You can only use 1 "Nethersoul Gate" effect per turn, and only once that turn.

An archetypal Reborn with huge restriction for the deck, also it let you retrieve some resource once you used up.

[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[spoiler='Trap']

[spoiler='Nethersoul Blast']

Target up to 3 of your banished "Nethersoul" cards and/or DARK Zombie-Type monsters; return them to the Graveyard, and if you do, destroy 1 card on the field. When a "Dragonecro Nethersoul Dragon" or "Dragocytus, the Impure Underworld Dragon" is Special Summoned to your side of the field: You can add this card from your Graveyard to your hand. You can only use each effect of "Nethersoul Blast" once per turn.

The only card in the deck with a softer OPT clause than others and can retrieve itself if certain bosses are Summoned. It's an archetypal Burial that having an extra benefit of non-targeting pop, with a downside of being slower as a Trap.

[/spoiler]

[/spoiler]

 

As usual, CnC appreciated.

[Love of Ghibli]

Personally I'm a little off put by the fact that the vast majority of these cards have effects that do something in the graveyard. To me this makes the "cost" of discarding for the first effects almost illusionary. In truth its just a way to transpose resources to a place where they can be better utilized. I'm sure I would have to see them in action in order to deem them broken or not. But at first glance the only monster in a deck that would mind being discard is actually zombie master.

While I'm not mad that they look very shenanigan prone I wouldn't say they're fair because of their discard cost. Actually I think they would be much slower if all the main deck members didn't have the medium to get each other into the grave. As for fixes I personally don't think gate should have a draw effect. Yes I understand its intention as a recovery card...but the VAST majority of your resources and plays stem from the grave so have a low hand count pretty much balances that out.

[-Noel-]

hmm... Gate is literally the only card that generate plus in the deck atm, so I'm a bit iffy about changing that part. I guess I will wait for more playtest result before deciding about it. Anyway thx for the feedback :)

[Yemachu]

hmm... Gate is literally the only card that generate plus in the deck atm, so I'm a bit iffy about changing that part. I guess I will wait for more playtest result before deciding about it. Anyway thx for the feedback :)

Are you sure? A lot of cards in this archtype seem to create plusses:

1. "Nethersoul Dark Dragon" lets you retrieve a "Nethersoul" card from your Graveyard by banishing it from the Graveyard;
2. "Nethersoul Summoner" can banish itself and 1 Zombie-Type from your Graveyard to Special Summon;
3. "Nethersoul Witch" can get a Fusion Monster out of nowhere when it, and 2 Zombie-Type monsters are in your Graveyard.
4. "Nethersoul Blast" can be retrieved when you summon a specific monster in which the archtype specializes.

Then there is "Nethersoul Caster" which - if she is in the Graveyard - can set up the Graveyard with some of the above cards. Also "Rekindling" (not that it serves any purpose in this deck).

 

Back on "Nethersoul Dark Dragon". It appears the archtype relies on "Zombie World" for quite a bit; this card cannot be tribute summoned while that card is on the field (it is not a Zombie-Type after all). It at least has "Monarch" stats going for it, so it can benefit from their support I suppose... Maybe you can have it be treated as a Zombie-Type monster while it is in your hand and/or Graveyard, akin to "Simorgh, Bird of Ancestry". 

 

About "Nethersoul Summoner": Besides being able to revive other monsters when she is in the Graveyard, she is also able to set-up Xyz Summons. Though you get quite restricted in what monsters you can summon that turn. But that is not all, it is also a rather generic Level 4 DARK Tuner.

 

Even if most cards do not create plusses, they do not minus much either; despite their costs.

[Darj]

Kinda off-topic but want to mention that I found the artwork of Caster really beautiful, and the rest of the Spellcaster's artworks aren't far behind either. May I ask for the source of the artworks?

 

That aside, I have not read all the cards yet and I may drop feedback after reading them and perhaps after a couple of tests if we get the chance, but I can say that I agree with the previous posters in that the archetype seems to be able to generate pluses, despite their discard costs, through their grave effects, and eventually "out-advantage" the opponent and overwhelm it.

 

Also, summoning a Beelze/Void Ogre Dragon through Summoner looks unfair on paper.

[-Noel-]

Are you sure? A lot of cards in this archtype seem to create plusses:

1. "Nethersoul Dark Dragon" lets you retrieve a "Nethersoul" card from your Graveyard by banishing it from the Graveyard;
2. "Nethersoul Summoner" can banish itself and 1 Zombie-Type from your Graveyard to Special Summon;
3. "Nethersoul Witch" can get a Fusion Monster out of nowhere when it, and 2 Zombie-Type monsters are in your Graveyard.
4. "Nethersoul Blast" can be retrieved when you summon a specific monster in which the archtype specializes.

Then there is "Nethersoul Caster" which - if she is in the Graveyard - can set up the Graveyard with some of the above cards. Also "Rekindling" (not that it serves any purpose in this deck).

 

Back on "Nethersoul Dark Dragon". It appears the archtype relies on "Zombie World" for quite a bit; this card cannot be tribute summoned while that card is on the field (it is not a Zombie-Type after all). It at least has "Monarch" stats going for it, so it can benefit from their support I suppose... Maybe you can have it be treated as a Zombie-Type monster while it is in your hand and/or Graveyard, akin to "Simorgh, Bird of Ancestry". 

 

About "Nethersoul Summoner": Besides being able to revive other monsters when she is in the Graveyard, she is also able to set-up Xyz Summons. Though you get quite restricted in what monsters you can summon that turn. But that is not all, it is also a rather generic Level 4 DARK Tuner.

 

Even if most cards do not create plusses, they do not minus much either; despite their costs.

Hmm, yeah first I admit I'm too hurry when I typed that and looked over the pluses in form of retrieving resources. So I might think about Gate only activate only when you have 0 hand or something like that, still keep its +1 nature but much more situational, and thx for spending your time to analyze my archetype and a thoughtful feedback :) rep will definitely be given. About Dragon, I knew that from the start, but you know I actually never Normal Summoned it. Even my playtest counts have not reach 10 yet, but most of the time this card will be either SS'd through Mezuki, BoL or Gate, or banished to recycle something, so the cannot be Tributed is really not an issue, especially when it is better as a discard fodder.

 

Kinda off-topic but want to mention that I found the artwork of Caster really beautiful, and the rest of the Spellcaster's artworks aren't far behind either. May I ask for the source of the artworks?

 

That aside, I have not read all the cards yet and I may drop feedback after reading them and perhaps after a couple of tests if we get the chance, but I can say that I agree with the previous posters in that the archetype seems to be able to generate pluses, despite their discard costs, through their grave effects, and eventually "out-advantage" the opponent and overwhelm it.

 

Also, summoning a Beelze/Void Ogre Dragon through Summoner looks unfair on paper.

Caster's art (and I believe most of the rest) are from my Safebooru folder, so you can browse there using tags (or I may find their full arts before upload them to imgur and PM the link to you, but it may take some time :)) and about Beelze/Void, my excuse is that Summoner Monk can do the same thing with Lv.4 DARK Tuner, but if it's really an issue on my playtests after this, might think about more restrictions.

 

Hmm so all of you said they still generate a huge number of plus even with discard cost and hard OPT that prevent them from using both of their effects twice? I still need more playtest results, but if the pluses are really overwhelming they maybe revamped.

 

sry for slow reply even have read this a while ago, been working on group project.

[Cirrus]

All I really have to say that this deck is Zombies on triple crack. You have Mezuki / Zombie Master / Book of Life as the holy trinity of really strong Zombie cards, and this archetype just fills in all the blanks (rather, places where Zombies would be weak) by having everything good when being milled (instead of, eh, just Mezuki and Plaguespreader). Even your S/Ts generate pluses by being milled! So your mill-5 is basically a +2/3 since it makes your Graveyard full of resources to abuse, and on top of that you get a search. The Synchro monster is difficult to deal with, aside from being countered by Stardust Dragon, but as your deck can search Book of Life that basically goes out the window.

 

One thing you have to keep in mind is that this deck basically plays with the Graveyard as a hand, and so your cards generate far more pluses than it may appear.

 

Thankfully for everyone involved, it still loses to well-protected floodgates. So ... y'know. Drain and Vanity both destroy this deck's life, but that's actually not necessarily a good thing, since most decks lose to floodgates.

[shadychaosblack]

I LOVE the way witches effects work i was playing with it on ygopro i just coded it today and its so good i think u might like what you see ill be posting videos up for you to watch your cards in action for real lol

[Love of Ghibli]

I LOVE the way witches effects work i was playing with it on ygopro i just coded it today and its so good i think u might like what you see ill be posting videos up for you to watch your cards in action for real lol

We have duel portal here...a program where we can use our own custom cards against each other. Therefore the user has used their own archetype and "seen it in action for real"

Also being one of the people who played against this archetype. I must say that everyone's suspicions and concerns were valid. They do too much for close to nothing. The cost is borderline non-existent, it is nothing but another plussing opportunity and there were some cards that were not even shown in this thread that had to be discussed. But nerfing is being done so hopefully it will be better to play against.

[-Noel-]

and there were some cards that were not even shown in this thread that had to be discussed. But nerfing is being done so hopefully it will be better to play against.

I just added those cards in my DP Archieve thread btw, since they're not parts of the archetype but can be tech'd so I don't think it fit here.

[Darj]

Just had a closer encounter with the archetype and I must say that it is indeed a problem. Cirrus summed it up:

- Possession is potentially a +5 at best by milling "Nethersoul" cards.

- The Graveyard is virtually a second hand, since Nethersouls and Mezukis can generate advantage from there.

Also:

- The discards are fake costs because by discarding Nethersouls, Mezuki and cards that want to be in the grave, the cost is paid off. In a way, the discards are more like hand fixers or "speed boosts" than actual costs.

 

The result is a deck with monsters that first turn into Extra Deck monsters, including big monsters such as Synchro 8s and 10s, and then further generate advantage from the grave.

 

Really, when too many cards have in-grave effects that generate advantage, it is really difficult for things to end well. I don't think this archetype can be fixed. Even if you heavily limit their effects or nerf the milling support, unless you remove their in-grave +1 effects they will remain as an issue, because there are so many ways to set them up, like resorting to LS and Card Trooper engines.

As I mentioned before, cards with both a field and an in-grave effect basically are "2 cards in 1", and when an entire archetype behaves like that, well... I think you can tell to where it is going.

[VampireofDarkness]

Since everyone here is just complaining and not doing much else, I thought I would be positive and actually give some suggestions, after testing it multiple times with shady. For starters, you have to play Nethersouls with Nethersoul. Teching in Lightsworn, Card Trooper, and other random techs becomes very inconsistent and in general, relying on such cards to play the game proves how bad said Deck is. We tried it even with just 3 Raiden and it just held back so many bigger plays. The Infernoids already proved how inconsistent these kinds of engines can be, so why would it be different with Nethersouls?

How this is relevant is to explain what can be done. It can become manageable if you don't make the advantage so quick and/or require specifics to actually go crazy with. Although Blast is quite a mess and Caster needs a whole different second effect, Summoner can be easily fixed by requiring a Nethersoul Spell, which means that you have to either clear of one of your Possessions, Gates (The only one that acquires you any sort of advantage when sent aside from Blast, which needs to be redone altogether), or your usually 1 Ritual. That's about 7 targets, 9 if you want to decrease your consistency.

Possession is also fixed easily by either killing the search altogether, making it send 3, or just change the whole scheme of it and make it a personal Kuribandit. (You could even make it trigger during the End Phase for further preventative measures)

Caster I suppose you could make a literal Mezuki by banishing it and a Nethersoul, but have it prevent you from activating the effect of other monsters in your Graveyard that turn. Even an extra Spell/Trap search would be pretty great, banishing it and a Level 4 Nethersoul to fetch a Possession if you bricked to get the deck going would make for a good opening play or even very late game when you actually want to play Ritual.

Blast just...... All I gotta say is Diva Zombies got Burial from a Different Dimension Limited. So you get to do that, then get Non-Targeting destruction? And if you summon the big dude, you get it back? Remind me again why Moralltach got limited as well. I'll give an attempt at reworking it.
[Spoiler Hopefully This Works]
During the End Phase, if a "Nethersoul" monster was banished this turn, you can return 1 "Nethersoul" monster and 1 DARK Zombie-Type monster to your Graveyard. During the End Phase, if a "Dragonecro Nethersoul Dragon" or "Dragocytus the Impure Underworld Dragon" was destroyed this turn, you can target 1 card on the field; destroy it, and if you do, return this card to your hand. You can only activate 1 "Nethersoul Blast" effect per turn, and only once that turn.
[/spoiler]

Although I much appreciate seeing someone giving Zombies support they need to compete outside of the Oni loop that's becoming less and less relevant, I find a bit of this to be overboard. It's not quite unfixable, it needs a bit of work before it becomes something other than Infernity 2.0. However, again, a nod on the attempt, as I feel Konami's attempts aren't the full step forward to helping such Decks out, and adapting Dragonecro as a boss saved the Deck on its own merit. I look forward to seeing fixes and I sincerely hope this isn't dropped.

[Darj]

Since everyone here is just complaining and not doing much else, I thought I would be positive and actually give some suggestions, after testing it multiple times with shady. For starters, you have to play Nethersouls with Nethersoul. Teching in Lightsworn, Card Trooper, and other random techs becomes very inconsistent and in general, relying on such cards to play the game proves how bad said Deck is. We tried it even with just 3 Raiden and it just held back so many bigger plays. The Infernoids already proved how inconsistent these kinds of engines can be, so why would it be different with Nethersouls?

 

When the deck can make much bigger plays than milling 1~3 Nethersouls who translate into card advantage, then there should be a serious power problem. It's like saying "why do X to draw 2 cards when I can do Y to draw 3?" And the LS/Trooper engine comment was an extreme example of how, regardless of the way it is decided to fix/nerf the archetype, you will be able to make them work through milling engines. It's like Shaddolls: They can tech LS for mills and free pluses, but most builds don't because are stronger without them; that doesn't mean they are fair.

 

I would suggest fixes but to be honest I got nothing besides removing the in-grave plusing effects entirely, and perhaps reduce the milling power of Caster and Possession, and scrap Ritual which is basically a better Dragon's Mirror.

[VampireofDarkness]

When the deck can make much bigger plays than milling 1~3 Nethersouls who translate into card advantage, then there should be a serious power problem. It's like saying "why do X to draw 2 cards when I can do Y to draw 3?" And the LS/Trooper engine comment was an extreme example of how, regardless of the way it is decided to fix/nerf the archetype, you will be able to make them work through milling engines. It's like Shaddolls: They can tech LS for mills and free pluses, but most builds don't because are stronger without them; that doesn't mean they are fair.

I would suggest fixes but to be honest I got nothing besides removing the in-grave plusing effects entirely, and perhaps reduce the milling power of Caster and Possession, and scrap Ritual which is basically a better Dragon's Mirror.

The difference between Shaddolls and Nethersoul is regardless of what you hit in Shaddoll, you can freely setup whatever you like and go from there. Infernoids are very specific in what they require, which makes builds with Lightsworns very inconsistent and even Reasoning/Monster Gate is horrifying because it becomes more about luck over consistency. Instead, you run a Scarm/BA engine that fetches resources and thins your Deck appropriately to get to what you need, not rely on 4 cards in your Deck to play the game. Same goes with Nethersoul. It's better to run Uni-Zombie, MAYBE run a Grepher or Armageddon so you can have controlled deck milling, (Though I have yet to test this) and use the rest from your hand.

It's more a Deck Choice Vs. Duel Mechanic. Yes, it sounds FANTASTIC on paper, but it makes for wildly inconsistent hands. It's why you don't play Scrap Iron Scarecrow in Ultimaya Hieratics, Rank Up in BA (Assuming you are running BA with Traps), Skybase in Qli, or Glow Up Bulb in Shaddolls. All cards with broken combos on paper, but they make your hands inconsistent and rely on specifics for their own combos which are, in the end, situational when you could be playing real cards.

EDIT: The Deck could actually go without Ritual, but considering the flavor of this Deck mainly is to adapt Dragonecro as the big boss without having to play Dragocytus Turbo, I think it has its purpose as a 1 of for late game.

[Darj]

I agree, there are a several engines you can play to support an archetype/deck, and of course some are better than others, as you pointed out. But my point is that even with inconsistent engines such as LS/Card Trooper, you could make Nethersouls work even if they are badly nerfed. Again, as long as they keep the "2 cards in 1" effects, they will be an issue waiting to be abused by the right engine.

[VampireofDarkness]

I agree, there are a several engines you can play to support an archetype/deck, and of course some are better than others, as you pointed out. But my point is that even with inconsistent engines such as LS/Card Trooper, you could make Nethersouls work even if they are badly nerfed. Again, as long as they keep the "2 cards in 1" effects, they will be an issue waiting to be abused by the right engine.

With enough luck, you can sack your way through YCS Toronto, become the next Jeff Jones, and do that all while playing Sylvans. All I gotta say.

[Self-Destruct Button]

With enough luck, you can sack your way through YCS Toronto, become the next Jeff Jones, and do that all while playing Sylvans. All I gotta say.

Sylvans mostly Stack their cards themselves though, and only have to excavate unknowns if their hand absolutely sucks. So it's not as sacky as LS which is purely RNG-based.

[Love of Ghibli]

With enough luck, you can sack your way through YCS Toronto, become the next Jeff Jones, and do that all while playing Sylvans. All I gotta say.

I feel the main point of "bad stuff is bad" is being a little looked over. If someone comes to you with a statement on how potentially horrific the set can be with reasons and an example. I feel you lose the argument if you attack that example. Allow me to demonstrate

Me: Dark Counterparts are bad because their ritual pulls from deck and therefore sets-up monsters like shadolls. 
You: You don't even use shaddolls in the deck because it would ruin consistency

This happened before you don't address the problem of pulling from the deck you attack my example of Shaddolls which is frivolous really. Same thing just happened in this thread:

Voltex: Nethersouls have too many resources in the grave you could even use an LS engine or Card Trooper etc etc.
You: All cards with broken combos on paper, but they make your hands inconsistent and rely on specifics for their own combos which are, in the end, situational when you could be playing real cards.

See this almost dismissive and rude. You aren't acknowledging the base of his argument and simply attacking the example. You didn't tackle the bulk of why those Nethersouls are not fair.
 

Second, I'm not a fan of the whole "Since everyone is here is just complaining and not doing much else..." statement. It breeds condescension. Normally I don't care about internet comments ever. But I've come to semi-respect this whole DP sub-culture on YCM and I haven't seen a DP user who doesn't have at least 3-4 HORRIBLY designed cards posted where this level of lambasting is required. Honestly I'm jealous that this thread gets so much attention. I've posted three threads and NO ONE has actually commented on them. At the very least everyone here is eloquently discussing the problems of this archetype. I myself didn't feel the need to write down the other nerfs I suggested because I suggested them when I played on them Duel Portal. 

Nevertheless I'll say what I said then. All of the cards should loose one of their two effects. Half could lose the discard effect and the other half could lose the graveyard effect. Even though I don't think making a set around making a 4k beatstick that is immune to something easier to summon a bad starting point.

[-Noel-]

Oh and there were these discussions without me knowing XD Welp gonna figure out what to do to the archetype when I'm home, either revamp or.. abandon if there're too hard to fix like Voltex said.