Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/okla-pastor-attacks-cops-rescue-shot-dead-article-1.2243299 I'm confused by this. Couldn't the officers have just used a taser or pepper spray instead of using deadly force? I don't think he had a weapon with him. I don't know, it just seems excessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well at least he wasn't black so the race riots can't start again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well, he was white, so we won't get riots, but he was a pastor, so we will get jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/okla-pastor-attacks-cops-rescue-shot-dead-article-1.2243299 I'm confused by this. Couldn't the officers have just used a taser or pepper spray instead of using deadly force? I don't think he had a weapon with him. I don't know, it just seems excessive. 'Murica. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sander Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 But seriously, this is a clear cut example of excessive force. First line of defense should definitely not be the use of the firearm. Only logical explanation would be that he saw the pastor to be of greater strength than him; in that case, using a gun is understandable, but for the love of god, aim to subdue, not kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted June 2, 2015 Report Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you're aiming to subdue, you don't use a gun, you use a taser. Regardless, seems fairly tragic. I think I read somewhere that the guy might have been drinking or something, which might explain the attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icy Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 But seriously, this is a clear cut example of excessive force. First line of defense should definitely not be the use of the firearm. Only logical explanation would be that he saw the pastor to be of greater strength than him; in that case, using a gun is understandable, but for the love of god, aim to subdue, not kill. You never shoot to subdue, you shoot to kill. There are so many logistical and moral problems with shooting to subdue that it may as well not be option for anyone involved. That is why they have things like tasers, pepper spray (which if done right will send the dude to the hospital anyway and create its own problems), and possibly other tools. Looking over the article it sums itself up nicely "a bizarre but fatal confrontation". I see no part in that where the officer was not at right to use excessive force to diffuse the situation. What brought the pastor to behave in such a way could have one or more factors, likely exacerbated by his situation prior to the cops arrival, and it is most definitely a regrettable incident. My condolences go out to the family and all. But the pastor did attack the officers and displayed willingness to attack unprovoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mugendramon Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 This ain't misc. Only post if you have something to add pls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a bad post Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I would like to point out that not all police officers are armed with tasers or pepper spray. My dad's a cop and he has neither, but he does have a baton so make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epicmemesbro Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 How so they are going after church leaders now? I guess we were due another one of these incidences. Where there body cameras this time around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I would like to point out that not all police officers are armed with tasers or pepper spray. My dad's a cop and he has neither, but he does have a baton so make of that what you will. The solution is simple. Arm them with Pepper spray. They cannot bring someone back to life can they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makο Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 ...sigh Alright. If I'm looking at this footage correctly, and based on what the story says... Troopers sent out to go rescue two dudes. They find them, the dudes approach, and then one of them lunges at him. Officers react with firing their weapons. From one perspective, I'd say this was a logical reaction to such a situation. It's night, probably not so easy to see, two dudes approaching you in water at a decent pace, and then one suddenly lunges on you. If I had a gun, I'd probably shoot him. One moment I'm telling some dude to calm down, and the next he's on top of me. It's scary. I can definitely understand why people would think this was excessive force. But this whole problem stems from the current age we live in. If it were... I dunno, the 1950's? When cops were generally still respected? I don't know, some time like that. I could imagine this being considered excessive force. But in an age where people (sometimes for good reason, other times not so much) will openly threaten cops, cheer when they get hurt or killed, and other things? It must be kinda scary being a cop, with the knowledge that a couple clusters of assholes all across the nation are ruining it for everyone. In response to the whole taser/pepper spray thing, I dunno. For one, it's a lot easier for a cop to unholster a gun than it is to get out some pepper spray (My dad has it in a little pouch on his belt). But this might be a problem with police uniforms and equipment design. I wonder if shooting deaths would be less if pepper spray was easier to get to than a gun? However, in this situation, I don't think pepper spray would've ever done anything. As far as I can tell, this guy was drunk, and dead set on getting this cop for... reasons? I'm not totally clear on it. I dunno, maybe he woulda dropped, but he could've also flown into a drunken rage. We just don't know. As for a taser, I'm not totally clear on how strong a taser's current is, but... leg-high water, probably drenched. It might've caused more problems than solved them. I could see that cop getting flak for "not having proper judgement for using a taser in this situation." I might just be rambling about things I only have a cursory knowledge of. I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP Posted June 3, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 How so they are going after church leaders now? I guess we were due another one of these incidences. Where there body cameras this time around? I'm sorry but the first part of your post is just......dumb. Cops aren't going after church leaders. They were trying to RESCUE this guy at first before he lunged at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 As for a taser, I'm not totally clear on how strong a taser's current is, but... leg-high water, probably drenched. It might've caused more problems than solved them. I could see that cop getting flak for "not having proper judgement for using a taser in this situation." Did a quick google search but I won't cite sources as, well...I'm just not sure on how valid they are. But it seems that tasers seem to discharge directly into a person, so touching a person who is tazered will have no effect on you, and standing in water won't conduct any of the charge. And apparently the president DefenseProducts101 (a self proclaimed Tazer Superstore) was even stunned while standing in water to prove this point.Oh, just found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs7z23rw-Z4 So while the current won't do anything different, there's the issue of drowning we have to think of, since a Tazered person loses all control of their nervous system for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makο Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 Did a quick google search but I won't cite sources as, well...I'm just not sure on how valid they are. But it seems that tasers seem to discharge directly into a person, so touching a person who is tazered will have no effect on you, and standing in water won't conduct any of the charge. And apparently the president DefenseProducts101 (a self proclaimed Tazer Superstore) was even stunned while standing in water to prove this point. Oh, just found this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs7z23rw-Z4 So while the current won't do anything different, there's the issue of drowning we have to think of, since a Tazered person loses all control of their nervous system for a time. Interesting. It might've been a better option, though the drunkness might cause some problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm more concerned with why Tasers are even used in the first place. Whose bright idea was it to arm police officers with a gun that shoots lightning at people whose bodies are 70% water? Logic would dictate that wouldn't end well, and I'm thoroughly surprised there aren't more deaths associated with Tasers. Anyways, guy attacks cop, gets shot. Idiocy leads to death, nothing new here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makο Posted June 3, 2015 Report Share Posted June 3, 2015 I'm more concerned with why Tasers are even used in the first place. Whose bright idea was it to arm police officers with a gun that shoots lightning at people whose bodies are 70% water? Logic would dictate that wouldn't end well, and I'm thoroughly surprised there aren't more deaths associated with Tasers. If you say it like that, then yeah it seems like a dumb idea. But evidently, it does something right, since there [i]aren't[/i] more taser deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icy Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 If you say it like that, then yeah it seems like a dumb idea. But evidently, it does something right, since there aren't more taser deaths. Because while you can definitely kill someone those things are good for one zap and are not enough to do anything but cause violent muscle spasms for a period, if that. Maybe make it harder for them to walk. Which is the idea. However, as stated. Tasers use an absurd amount of power and to my knowledge can only discharge once maybe twice on a battery. Nevermind the projectile kind that could miss. Regarding Pepper Spray; The effects are mainly upon the eye and skin with the most severe effect on exposed mucous membranes. Concentrations as low as 0.01 -0.1% (0.1-1mg CR/ml) when splashed onto the face result in immediate eye pain and temporary blindness which persists for about 15-30 minutes. Over all areas of exposed skin contact, a nettle stinging sensation is produced which grows more severe as exposure increases. Even after a person is removed from the contaminated area, these effects will persist. Other effects include raised blood pressure, inner eye pressure, and, because of the general shock of the effects upon some individuals, hysteria. Source: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/etudes/stoa/2000/168394/DG-4-STOA_ET(2000)168394_EN(PAR02).pdf I wouldn't exactly consider it a viable option considering it's likened to torture. For some these effects are permanent or may cause other issues. It also may not stop the person in a way to stop the attack. I guess Pepper Spray would be the better option in most situations, but I... I do not have a currently full opinion on this matter. Will dwell on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 I'm more concerned with why Tasers are even used in the first place. Whose bright idea was it to arm police officers with a gun that shoots lightning at people whose bodies are 70% water? Logic would dictate that wouldn't end well, and I'm thoroughly surprised there aren't more deaths associated with Tasers. You aren't shooting lightning. You're shooting rods that discharge a short, controlled electrical current. If you want shooting lightning, go look up mythbusters with their water tazer attempt that they were only able to achieve with a tesla coil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ririku Posted June 4, 2015 Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Police brutality is very strong in America. They don't care how they treat most people. Things like this nowadays never surprises be because of how twisted most departments are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP Posted June 4, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2015 Police brutality is very strong in America. They don't care how they treat most people. Things like this nowadays never surprises be because of how twisted most departments are. Not all American cops are bad and out to hurt people. I hope you realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ririku Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I do realize that. I'm an AnCap, I don't necessarily agree with most of their principles of force. Either way police departments shouldn't be state funded and parasitic at nature to bring in their revenue. I just don't like the economic bit or how they are supposedly the magic men in magic suits that are somehow in charge of my own life. Sorry if it seems like I'm angry or anything, I'm not, I just love talking about this kind of stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astolfo Posted June 6, 2015 Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 And how else would police make money? They're also the ones who take care of said criminals, although yes, there are some incidents of police brutality. It's not even close enough to being a majority that you can just go and make a generalization like that, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutant Monster RAEG-HAPYP Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2015 And how else would police make money? They're also the ones who take care of said criminals, although yes, there are some incidents of police brutality. It's not even close enough to being a majority that you can just go and make a generalization like that, though. I feel the media is at fault for this. All they do is show the bad cops which gives off the vibe that all cops are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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