Blake Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Well, the ARG list had a good amount of good hits and such... but the logic and intent was terrible. So, I decided to take the good/realistic and add on to it with some more solid logic and some removed. It's sizable, so not really a prediction on the whole, but things I'd think we should see. Banned: 9Denko SekkaDjinn Releaser of RitualsInzektor HornetRoyal Magical LibraryWind-Up HunterNekroz of TrishulaBlaze Fenix, the Burning Bombardment BirdLavalval ChainRaigekiLimited: 12Qliphort ScoutCir, Malebranche of the Burning AbyssEl Shaddoll ConstructWind-Up Carrier ZenmaityEl-Shaddoll FusionEmergency TeleportInstant FusionMask ChangeReinforcement of the ArmySummoner's ArtCall of the HauntedLose 1 TurnMistakeSemi-Limited: 6Genex Ally Birdman Inzektor DragonflyScarm, Malebranche of the Burning AbyssWind-Up MagicianMind Crush Torrential TributeNo Longer Restricted: 2Dark HoleCompulsory Evacuation DeviceDenko Sekka shuts out a 3rd or more of the game for being summoned, and promotes an unhealthy level of fear in the game. Djinn Releaser is a card that's really bad outside of TGU/Chain, but resolving it is a 1-sided Kristya. It's seriously all-or-nothing in an awful way. I know I banned Chain and TGU is limited, but I'd rather be safe than sorry when a card is either "total trash" or "broken as funk" with no inbetween. Hornet is banned so that Dragonfly can go up. Dragonfly to 2 because cautious, but D-fly makes the deck a Rank 4-5 turbo deck with R3 options, and I see no issue with that, especially considering how R4 isn't half as strong a pool as it once was. RML is pre-emptive for Igknights/Chicken Race/etc. No reason to keep it around, really, as it is and always has been just an FTK card. Hunter was banned so that Zenmaity and Magician can move back up. Without Zenmaity, but with 2 Magician, the deck is like an infinitely shittier Ritual Beast. Zenmaity is an edge. Without 2 Magician, but with Zenmaity, the deck doesn't have any real edge to using it. This way, there is incentive to use the deck (at least in theory). Nekroz of Trishula banned mostly because of its gamstate implications, especially with Exciton. It has more fangs than the rest of Nekroz put together, though Valk is strong, and this, Djinn, and Chain disappearing is enough in the way of hits. Fenix is dead so I can move Birdman up to 2, because I think it's a decent boost to Majespecters when it's not limited, given Genex Blastfan's synergy with the deck. Really early, but better to see if it has some negative implications outside of Majespecter sooner than later. Chain banned as a general punishment for all that it's done through the years, the general Nekroz implications, and a pre-emptive hit to hold back Seraphs (And, sadly, my baby Clownblade). Raigeki shouldn't exist. I'd rather the combo-enabling Dark Hole at 3, if only for a test. And no, "no one plays Dark Hole" isn't accurate, as most things sided it at least, iirc. Scout limit because it stops Tower Turbo and puts Qli down a notch. 1 Cir and 2 Scarm because Cir is stupidly good lategame... And Scarm gives you discard fodder and Doll hits are to curb Clownblade (y'know, this is the one deck it still really matters in) and just general hits. El-Shaddoll is the more powerful fusion, giving far too many OTK opportunies, so 2-birds-1-stone. E-Tele as a serious smack on the wrist to Ritual Beasts and Yuki Ueagi plays in that deck. Instant Fusion is pre-emptive, but it never does anything positive for the game, anyways. Mask Change is me being silly. As opposed to hitting Shadow Mist/Dark Law/AHL/etc., I decided it'd be neat to see how forcing more MCII on HEROs would work out. It certainly makes Anki combos harder to pull off, and makes it so you'd have to run Mask Charge for more of OG Mask Change. I dislik RotA at 3. The idea of "I'm any* other card in the deck so enjoy your 37 card deck" really irks me. This card isn't really comparable to Tenki, which has a sleugh of flaws, and gives you way too much utility given the pool it grabs from. Also a tellar hit. Same for Summoner's Art, except it will only get better with time, given Pendulums. Call of the Haunted is limited because Oasis exists, and now this means a maximum 4 copies. 3 inferior niche copies with fun implications for Synchros... and one of the stronger copy. Just a quality shift, and a personal feelin about how Call has become and the fact that there are now 6 copies. Mistake and L1T are powerful "you can't play YGO" cards. These should not exist so freely. Mind Crush is just a preference thing. It's seeing lots of usage, so just a small smack on the wrist for it to see what happens. 2 of it, 1 Mistake seems fine. TT to 2 because it hurts decks like RB and Yosen, while also increasing the amount of good backrow in the game. Theoretically. Compulse should be at 3. It's only getting worse with time, and pendulum makes that unlikely to be undone, so seeing it go to three doesn't seem like an issue for a game moving away from it. 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Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nekroz of Trishula Lavalval Chain Inzektor Dragonfly Not happy about these three. The reason Trishula is actually potent is due to Cycle making 1 copy worth 4 copies. How about instead of hitting the main powercard of the deck you hit the cards that make recycling possible (Unicore and Cycle) Chain isn't much of a problem at 1. Infernity needed multiples. Most loops need multiples. Clownblade in the Asian regions just make do with B-Soul if you take out Chain. Dragonfly and Hornet can both be at three. The cards target and destroy. We are not in 2012 anymore, and the only reason that Inzektors won worlds is Hieratic Chaos Dragons weren't legal in TCG, nor did they have TGU in OCG. TGU excuse to Rabbit and WU as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nekroz of TrishulaLavalval ChainInzektor Dragonfly Not happy about these three. The reason Trishula is actually potent is due to Cycle making 1 copy worth 4 copies. How about instead of hitting the main powercard of the deck you hit the cards that make recycling possible (Unicore and Cycle) Chain isn't much of a problem at 1. Infernity needed multiples. Most loops need multiples. Clownblade in the Asian regions just make do with B-Soul if you take out Chain. Dragonfly and Hornet can both be at three. The cards target and destroy. We are not in 2012 anymore, and the only reason that Inzektors won worlds is Hieratic Chaos Dragons weren't legal in TCG, nor did they have TGU in OCG. TGU excuse to Rabbit and WU as well But Valk is the main power card. Trish is just an ever present threat factor, more than anything, which, as I said, isn't fair in a game with Exciton existing. And Exciton adds more to the game. I mean, most decks can make stupid good use of 1 chain. Limiting it doesn't do the card justice, as most decks use it all the same, and banning it removes its toxic interactions in their entirety. I don't care for that logic, especially in a gamestate with less powerful backrow. Hornet adds far too much OTking to the game. It isn't just 'destroying', as he makes all sorts of mini loops that, otherwise, require more than 1 MST to do. So it's versatile in what it does, and it does too much. yeah, not moving rabbit up because i don't like that card and i think it's fine where it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Most decks only run 1 Chain.Limiting it does nothing. Removing Trishula makes Nekroz fair, as there is no threat of getting your resources fully drained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Nekroz of TrishulaNot happy about these three. The reason Trishula is actually potent is due to Cycle making 1 copy worth 4 copies. How about instead of hitting the main powercard of the deck you hit the cards that make recycling possible (Unicore and Cycle) Is it possible for me to agree with something Winter says?Not quite. Trishula is Trishula, so banned it should be, but I still dislike the ridiculous amount of recycling that goes on in that deck. Overall, I would say this is a good list, but I'm extremely biased, given that it doesn't hurt anything I play (except Tele-Speedroid, I guess, but that's not exactly a competitive version). Compulse to 3 seems like it's asking for trouble though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 HEROs loose some RotAs and some Mask Change. On the plus side, Dian is now playable....heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Ehh, w/e the format doesn't directly affect me. Come October if OCG is smart they'll limit Shruit and another mirror and put the infernal deck in the ground. TCG from the rumored list went the Unicore Cycle route too IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted July 9, 2015 Report Share Posted July 9, 2015 Trish is DEFINITELY the main power card. It's forcing people to play different, build their decks differently, and even stop playing certain decks because they're too easy to Trish. The only reason why Nekroz are as good as they are is that the opponent is forced to play suboptimally by things such as setting your hand or, in the mirror match, clearing your board and blowing through most of your resources. Valk is only as "powerful" as it is in, say, the mirror, because it's essential for playing through Trish. Otherwise it's just a beefy Swift Scarecrow which can turn dead monsters into draws. I disagree wholeheartedly with 3 Dark Hole but other than that this list seems pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Nekroz of Trishula Is it really so hard to play artifact lancea. It's like TCG has all the outs but chooses to run none of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Nekroz of TrishulaIs it really so hard to play artifact lancea. It's like TCG has all the outs but chooses to run none of them You run Lancea. Outs existing that are bad in most other circumstances does not defend an overly polarizing card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Let's bring CED back because we have Warning.Is it really so hard to Warning CED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 You run Lancea. Outs existing that are bad in most other circumstances does not defend an overly polarizing card.Not really, you can also stop mirror floating. If you drop in SP...it has a wide variety of uses against the Nekroz Not to mention you can shut down Dank Law in BA if they choose to run MC2 And you can cock block ExoMirror I mean you guys are so fixed on the idea of banning the card that is not the problem that half of y'all don't see there are a myriad of outs that have multiple uses against the deck Let's bring CED back because we have Warning.Is it really so hard to Warning CED? Is CED even a good example anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Not really, you can also stop mirror floating. If you drop in SP...it has a wide variety of uses against the Nekroz Not to mention you can shut down Dank Law in BA if they choose to run MC2 And you can cock block ExoMirror I mean you guys are so fixed on the idea of banning the card that is not the problem that half of y'all don't see there are a myriad of outs that have multiple uses against the deckNo one denies the outs. You claim we deny them, but that's the oinly point you really make. You did not, in any way, manage to refute what I said. While in OCG Land trish isn't th big kahuna, he definiely is TCG-side, and you really overrate Unicore's negation. It's good, but hardly the best thing about the card. I'd say that it is its weakest asset, after being Lv. 4 and recycling. A card like Trish in a gamestate like the TCG is highlty destructive, esp with Exciton. And you can argue he doesn't "win the game" all you like, because massive blowouts end games. And anothr thing; You criticize being banhappy, yet you mass limit, which is so much worse than banning a single card. The problem is that, really, the OCG doesn't have the same mindset as the TCG, leading to a gamestate that's more volatile, and you have a hard-on for Trish. You can argue all you want about th OCG, but it is the correct TCG hit. Nekroz can do things without trish, be an engine, but neutering them to keep what could be compared to, I belive, Aegislash makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I honestly don't care what happens to Trishula as long as Unicore and Cycle go. Limiting Brio, Cycle and Unicore would save 3 cards actually. The Djinn Laval deal would be dead since nobody will burn Unicore for that Cycle would make Trish harder to summon due to you using it as target protection. Exciton becomes harder to abuse....etc. In 3 limits I'm saving 3 card from being banned That being said, funk fake trishula. I have a hard on for the real version, that takes effort to summon, not this blue pile of sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I honestly don't care what happens to Trishula as long as Unicore and Cycle go. Limiting Brio, Cycle and Unicore would save 3 cards actually. The Djinn Laval deal would be dead since nobody will burn Unicore for that Cycle would make Trish harder to summon due to you using it as target protection. Exciton becomes harder to abuse....etc. In 3 limits I'm saving 3 card from being banned That being said, funk fake trishula. I have a hard on for the real version, that takes effort to summon, not this blue pile of sheetBut you aren't saving anything. Chain's ban is not on Nekroz alone. It is the best TCG deck for it for now, but Chain is, always has been, and continues to grow more and more stupidly broken with time. That's 1-card off of your list. Djinn shouldn't exist anyways. It's an all-or-nothing card that adds infinitely less to the game than the 3 limits you desire do. Nekrozdolls is cute, for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Even if you take away those things, it wouldn't save Chain. Lavalval Chain itself is already a ridiculously broken card that was looking at a ban from release. It has only gotten worse, and worse since then. And sure, it could save Djinn, but guess what? Djinn is a toxic that limits future ritual decks. It's a cancer. So "saving" those 2 cards, just makes the gamestate worse in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I mean...fine...I guess? Chain has never been that bad in my eyes. It foolish burial as a monster. Should it be at 3. No. Does it deserve to be banned. IMO no. We live to disagree TCG isn't my forte and I suppose things I find broken (Unicore, Cycle and Raigeki) are balanced to you guys and cards I find balanced (Chain and Trishula) are broken to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Foolish Burial is @1 for a reason. Lavalval Chain is that same foolish burial but is available on demand and at all times, as well as also having an extremely potent stack effect. Said stack effect breaks the Seraphs even further, and is also stupidly good with the Jus. Among many many many other examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Foolish Burial is @1 for a reason. Lavalval Chain is that same foolish burial but is available on demand and at all times, as well as also having an extremely potent stack effect. Said stack effect breaks the Seraphs even further, and is also stupidly good with the Jus. Among many many many other examplesRemind me again why TCG feels its a good idea not to hit Chair and Stick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Because they are still a little too new.They also won't hit them once Noden comes because of the synergy to help boost sales.A format later, they might hit them. Maybe. If they haven't been powercreeped to death by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 10, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Remind me again why TCG feels its a good idea not to hit Chair and Stick A. Chair is actually ass, so...B. Stick is far too new, so I won't even put it on a fanciful wishlist.C. Given how new they are, how much synergy they have with Chain, and Chain's track record, it's just more reason to just smack them and kill chain now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 Because they are still a little too new.They also won't hit them once Noden comes because of the synergy to help boost sales.A format later, they might hit them. Maybe. If they haven't been powercreeped to death by then.No. Bad. Noden+Star Seraphs made shaddolls tier 0 in OCG Very bad....we only had to deal with that for about a month, I'm crying for you guys if you have an entire format to that......bad bad bad A. Chair is actually ass, so...B. Stick is far too new, so I won't even put it on a fanciful wishlist.C. Given how new they are, how much synergy they have with Chain, and Chain's track record, it's just more reason to just smack them and kill chain now. Ehh, chair can form nasty combos with Scale I suppose and is degenerate in Multiples, I get what you mean about Stick being the main problem however. The fact remains, Oroborus-Delt Turbo might not be as bad as Shock Turbo, but it's still pretty terrible for the game, hopefully you guys don't get Infinity any time soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slinky Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 By then, Shaddolls will have been effectively neutered to the point where it won't matter as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryusei the Morning Star Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 By then, Shaddolls will have been effectively neutered to the point where it won't matter as much.Clownblade then. Pretty sure non-Japan Asia no longer has chain due to set rotation. Berserker soul still makes the Clown tier 1. The deck will find a way and giving them the games best Rank 4 engine is a bad idea Meh, they stopped using multiples in favor of Soul atleast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted July 10, 2015 Report Share Posted July 10, 2015 I like the list quite a bit. Not a fan of the hit to Mask Change. I don't even think it's necessary, I'd argue that Dark Law or Shadow Mist is more the problem there, but I digress. Also not a fan of the hit to Raigeki, but that doesn't mean I don't agree with it. Compulse to three? Eh, still seems too much for me. It's 1-for-1 removal that can also allow you to re-use and combo with a bunch of your own stuff, which is why I'm not comfortable with it at three. Good list though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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