Gender differences

[CLG Klavier]

Yes I'm going there and I really hope YCM won't make it into a shistorm. I mean, I know it will in 3 pages, but eh.

 

Let me state my opinion first: genders aren't equal, weren't equal, and will never be equal. Cherry picking arguments like "Why are male nipples fine to show while female ones aren't" or "Why are over-idealized male bodies fine but female ones aren't" is simply idiotic and won't ever work.

 

Males and females both have different "tags" on them, and you can argue against them all you want, but this is how the world worked for ages, that male's job was to hunt, work and earn for the family, while female's was to stay at home, clean up, take care of kids. Feeling offended at such stereotypes is feeling offended at thousands years of history and evolution of culture. so please don't.

 

Now let's discuss.

[Azuriena]

Obviously there are some differences that cannot be changed, only worked around. Most prevalent: biological ones.

 

I've heard this same argument before, but with different examples. Those same people would disagree with the examples you used. The whole point of this gender inequality thing is to get rid of the mindset that genders have roles assigned to them.

[CLG Klavier]

The thing is, isn't that already happening? I know a bunch of marriages that have roles "reversed", like the mother is mostly working while father stays home. Don't we hear about womens of success a lot? Or about stay-at-home dads? It happens. We're not in dark ages.

 

Just sometimes I feel like people who fight for gender equality literally want to reverse the roles, which is stupid because it's the same "problem" still.

[Azuriena]

I agree.

 

When you say that people are "offended", I don't know that (reasonable) people are offended at the stereotypes themselves. Stereotypes exist for a reason, and like you said, the ones you mentioned are the result of thousands of years of accumulated history. But I feel that it is fair to be upset about "Get back into the kitchen," and the like.

 

As for nipples and sexualisation, I'm not sure what you mean by cherry-picking arguments, but I do think those certain differences shouldn't exist.

[CLG Klavier]

Regarding last point: that's what I said, it's alright if someone wants to change that, but the fact is that female body in our current culture is considered more of a sexual "object" than a male one, so censorship and whatnot is more conservative towards females than males. That's why it generally checks out at the moment I think.

[.Rai]

The thing is, isn't that already happening? I know a bunch of marriages that have roles "reversed", like the mother is mostly working while father stays home. Don't we hear about womens of success a lot? Or about stay-at-home dads? It happens. We're not in dark ages.

 

Just sometimes I feel like people who fight for gender equality literally want to reverse the roles, which is stupid because it's the same "problem" still.

The social stigma still stands for working mums, and stay-at-home dads. Obviously, the stereotype is there for a reason, in that it's an almost immovable amount of tradition and history, but that's basically why the push towards breaking down these prejudgements is so prevalent anyway. It's definitely not as bad as it was maybe 50 years ago, but no point just stopping any progress at all because it's tolerable on an everyday level for Western countries.

 

I don't think people want role reversal. I think that's just what it looks like on the internet because minorities speak louder on the online platform. Most everyday people are just the good standard feminist. Equal opportunity for all.

[Tentacruel]

You stepped into a minefield.  

 

Also I agree. =3  Don't hurt me pls.

 

 

Regardless, I think the most important thing to remember is to be nice to people even if the have different opinions about stuff like this.  Topics such as this one get really toxic really quick.  (Not talking about YCM specifically, just in general.)

[Zauls]

You're right, genders aren't equal, nor are they defining. The different biological traits make males naturally better at some things and females naturally better at others, generally speaking. The goal should not be for genders to be treated equally, neither gender would actually want that. The goal should be for different genders to be treated equally well, i.e. they should be given the same opportunities in life and not be constrained by old fashioned gender roles. 

[Agro]

itt

 

 

lawl

[Shradow]

Agro beat me to it.

[a bad post]

You're right, genders aren't equal, nor are they defining. The different biological traits make males naturally better at some things and females naturally better at others, generally speaking. The goal should not be for genders to be treated equally, neither gender would actually want that. The goal should be for different genders to be treated equally well, i.e. they should be given the same opportunities in life and not be constrained by old fashioned gender roles.

 

This guys got it. This is the goal of feminism, no not tumblr feminism, but real feminism. Unfortunately this often gets clouded due to the minority's outlandish expectations for how men and women are treated.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Yeah of course there are differences, the main thing is...hmm...We shouldn't let those differences define us. As in, even though there are physical and emotional differences between men and women, no one should point to those differences as a reason someone can't do something, if they can show themselves capable of doing it.

[Tentacruel]

 no one should point to those differences as a reason someone can't do something, if they can show themselves capable of doing it.

Well, yeah.  That's almost a tautology.  If someone shows that they can do something, then they can indeed do that thing. 

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

Well, yeah.  That's almost a tautology.  If someone shows that they can do something, then they can indeed do that thing. 

I know but there's a sad amount of people who don't seem to get that.

[Flame Dragon]

Males and females both have different "tags" on them, and you can argue against them all you want, but this is how the world worked for ages, that male's job was to hunt, work and earn for the family, while female's was to stay at home, clean up, take care of kids. Feeling offended at such stereotypes is feeling offended at thousands years of history and evolution of culture. so please don't.

 

Now let's discuss.

 

This is factually incorrect. Looking over the whole of history men and women have more or less both been active workers. The woman stays at home while the man provides is an ideology that is rooted in the 50s and even then it wasn't fully true and wasn't really seen in nonwhite families.

 

This idea is also a problematic one since it limits a women's autonomy since they are than dependent on the man. If a person wants that, fine, but to say, "this is your role" is simply not correct to do.

 

 

Just sometimes I feel like people who fight for gender equality literally want to reverse the roles, which is stupid because it's the same "problem" still.

This isn't at all what they want. The type of things feminists fight for include the idea that a man can be a stay at home dad.

[Rapidfire]

 

Let me state my opinion first: genders aren't equal, weren't equal, and will never be equal. Cherry picking arguments like "Why are male nipples fine to show while female ones aren't" or "Why are over-idealized male bodies fine but female ones aren't" is simply idiotic and won't ever work.

 

 

Actually, men not wearing shirts and seeing their nipples was considered taboo, up until the 1930's it was actually illegal in many American states. That is until men got so fed up with having to wear shirts and such that they started rioting. There was so many protests, that it actually became okay for a while. The reason we don't ever mention this is because it happened so long ago that the stigma now is that it's completely fine. So much like men in the 1930's women are now trying to get over that bump as well with movements such as "free the nipple." Honestly it's a bit hypocritical to call it "cherry picking arguments" because women want that right as well. 

Don't even get me started on the fact that the female breast IS NOT a sex organ, and that mothers shouldn't have to sit in dirty bathrooms just to feed their new born children. 

 

Speaking of "cherry picking arguments", just because you don't find an issue important does not mean it's not a valid and real one. Feminism differentiates and fluctuates throughout the world, but in the end it's still a community and support system, so please don't call other peoples issues not important just because it doesn't fit your definition of a problem.