ihop Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 will fall into death without drawing into Sekka. https://tcg.konami-europe.com/coverage/top-8-profiles-14/ This lot all did pretty well for themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Nekroz. Shaddolls. Yeah, "coward". Excuse me I'm "cowardly" enough not to blindly advance my game when my opponent has a full backrow. You can win without using Denko Sekka in that scenario, right? Or must you rely on Denko Sekka to get by le backrow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Umm, hiding behind a crap tonne of backrow can be considered cowardly too. Traptrix hide behind countless walls, tearing down their opponent's monsters one by one while taking pot shots with Myrmelio and Dionaea. They don't face their opponent fairly, but spam spells/traps to deal with the problem without direct conflict. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that the definition of cowardice? Denko is a balancer, it forces backrow heavy decks onto the same level as those that don't have backrow. The critical exception being that the likes of Nekroz and Shaddoll happen to possess the stronger monsters, which is what tips the balance in their favour easily. It's not fair by the strictest margin, but to say it's a cowardly card is nothing but salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You can win without using Denko Sekka in that scenario, right? Or must you rely on Denko Sekka to get by le backrow?Why would I take unnecessary risks? This is a game about cutting as many corners as possible to win in the most optimal way possible. So should I now add 20 random bad cards to my deck to "prove" myself I'm a good player and don't need to play only good cards to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Why would I take unnecessary risks? This is a game about cutting as many corners as possible to win in the most optimal way possible. So should I now add 20 random bad cards to my deck to "prove" myself I'm a good player and don't need to play only good cards to win? I'm just saying that one shouldn't act as motionless as a sloth until they draw into Denko Sekka because that's just boring and boring games are dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I'm just saying that one shouldn't act as motionless as a sloth until they draw into Denko Sekka because that's just boring and boring games are dumb.Excuse me I have a competitive mindset, aka I'd rather wait 20 turns and win the game surely than vomit my hand on turn 1, get everything negated and run out of tools and lose on the spot. Because that's supposedly more "fun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 You can win without using Denko Sekka in that scenario, right? Or must you rely on Denko Sekka to get by le backrow? That's like saying MST is a coward's card because you're relying on the MST to get through your opponent's Vanity's Emptiness. Or Mirror Force is a coward's card because you're relying on it to get rid of your opponent's monsters. Or Deneb is a coward's card because you're relying on it to get your plays started. You can see what I'm getting at here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 That's like saying MST is a coward's card because you're relying on the MST to get through your opponent's Vanity's Emptiness. Or Mirror Force is a coward's card because you're relying on it to get rid of your opponent's monsters. Or Deneb is a coward's card because you're relying on it to get your plays started. You can see what I'm getting at here.Playing good cards is a coward's way to play because if you need to draw good cards to win then you're a pussy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Excuse me I have a competitive mindset, aka I'd rather wait 20 turns and win the game surely than vomit my hand on turn 1, get everything negated and run out of tools and lose on the spot. Because that's supposedly more "fun". Understandable. We both have different philosophies when it comes to how the game should be played. I play for fun and you play for glory. Either way, Denko Sekka leads to boring plays that a player not using handtraps cannot respond to and this card creates a state that prevents responses in a competitive setting. Should we agree to disagree here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Playing good cards is a coward's way to play because if you need to draw good cards to win then you're a pussy.Yugioh is coward's game. Russian Roulette is manliest game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Understandable. We both have different philosophies when it comes to how the game should be played. I play for fun and you play for glory. Either way, Denko Sekka leads to boring plays that a player not using handtraps cannot respond to and people get salty over losing this card because they can't do anything. To be honest if all you'd said was this I'd have totally agreed with you, it's the "coward's card" and "reliance" comments that look ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Understandable. We both have different philosophies when it comes to how the game should be played. I play for fun and you play for glory. Either way, Denko Sekka leads to boring plays that a player not using handtraps cannot respond to and this card creates a state that prevents responses in a competitive setting. Should we agree to disagree here?Yeah. As iHop stated, if that was the initial comment, zero problem. But you used pretty strong words, dunno for what purpose. This is why I kinda dislike casual players. Not that being casual is bad, but they tend to bring a lot of needless emotions into talking about cards, which is just icky. So you're implying all competitive players are cowards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 Yeah. As iHop stated, if that was the initial comment, zero problem. But you used pretty strong words, dunno for what purpose. This is why I kinda dislike casual players. Not that being casual is bad, but they tend to bring a lot of needless emotions into talking about cards, which is just icky. So you're implying all competitive players are cowards? I know how important a win is, but a win where your opponent can't do anything because you shut them out of all possible answers feels like a hollow victory. But, I suppose a win is a win, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I know how important a win is, but a win where your opponent can't do anything because you shut them out of all possible answers feels like a hollow victory. But, I suppose a win is a win, right?Uh, yes? Kinda? You think there are extra prizes on YCS for winning in a "fair" way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Warden Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 But isn't that the same as heavy backrow? You just flip trap after trap after trap to react to their every play, denying them the chance to do anything while you take pot shots at them until they lose. It's the other extreme and it's just as unfun for the opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I know how important a win is, but a win where your opponent can't do anything because you shut them out of all possible answers feels like a hollow victory. But, I suppose a win is a win, right? Yeah. Basically. The thrill, recognition and material gain makes almost any legal way of winning seem desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
玄魔の王 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 But isn't that the same as heavy backrow? You just flip trap after trap after trap to react to their every play, denying them the chance to do anything while you take pot shots at them until they lose. It's the other extreme and it's just as unfun for the opponent.Exactly. At the very least, Denko's effect means you have to use her when you intend to push for game; you can't defend her with backrow of your own, so summon her at the wrong time and she's gonna die. Having to time a card right is less "cowardly" than having 5 Traps you can lay down and use whenever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I could really almost swear we get a discussion on "casual and competitive" every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLG Klavier Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I could really almost swear we get a discussion on "casual and competitive" every dayAnd notice how it's always casuals who start it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(GigaDrillBreaker) Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 What always bugs me about this is that it really can't be effectively responded to. Even things like Royal Decree can be chained to with the likes of Fire Lake, Steeds, Stellarnova Alpha, and Call of the Haunted, where as this simply removes the opportunity for interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 If it actually had to activate maybe it would help. For example: "When this card is Normal Summoned, you can activate this effect: While you control no Set Spell/Trap Cards and this face-up card, neither player can Set Spell/Trap Cards nor activate Spell/Trap Cards that are Set on the field." I feel like that would have made all the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I feel like that would have made all the difference. I feel like you're probably right. Although, with the amount of effect negation this format that would probably make it useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I feel like you're probably right. Although, with the amount of effect negation this format that would probably make it useless.It would just make it a magnet for backrow like BTH/fiendish/etc instead of a negation. Basically, it'd be like forcing the activation of a backrow for your NS and at that point you might as well MST it or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Progenitor Posted August 26, 2015 Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 I feel like you're probably right. Although, with the amount of effect negation this format that would probably make it useless. Actually, I feel like that would actually have been a good thing. Denko is normally used to push for game. As I suggested Denko would do that. Everything that can't respond to it's summon is still locked. However, if they do have Bottomless, or Warning, or Book of Moon, or whatever, they just wasted it getting rid of Denko, and that's one less card to disrupt your play. It's marginally worse, but it would force your opponent to actively do something about it on its drop and waste their potential resources you know? EDIT: mido is Hanzo up in here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihop Posted August 26, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2015 If all it does is bait out a single backrow you may as well just run MST, it doesn't waste your normal summon and actually deals with floodgates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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