Danko Sekka (outing it)

[~~~~]

LIGHT Level 4 Thunder-Type

Cannot be Special Summoned. While you control no Set Spell/Trap Cards, neither player can Set Spell/Trap Cards nor activate Spell/Trap Cards that are Set on the field.

1700/1000

 

So, to explain the context of this topic, Paleozoics are basically Tier 1 at my locals because the judge there rules the trap summons as compulsory. While I am the only person who plays the deck there, I nearly always come second or third. The other two people who regularly come in the top 3 are clearly somewhat rich as they change their decks a lot. This makes them hard to side against. Thus, people are likely to side against me and my deck specifically, as I do not change my deck regularly at all.

 

If you are siding against Palezoics, what better card? Because this card ruins me, I need to run outs to it, side against the side style. However, these outs would ideally be applicable to other situations.

 

My solution is this: Solemn Warning can negate the Normal Summon, Appointer of the Red Lotus can snipe Denko from the hand and Effect Veiler can negate its effects to reactivate my backrow for a turn.

 

However, these all only work if I am going first. What if my opponent goes first and just Normal Summons Denko? I'm screwed right? Someone please help me think of an out to this evil situation.

 

td;dr Outs in Paleozoic to a first turn Denko when I am going second.

[Snatch Steal]

Kaiju?

They're searchable, considering how many of your traps will probably go to graveyard after you use them. I know Gameciel is an expensive rare, but it's pretty much an out to anything whatsoever at this point.

 

There's even the 3 dark hole they come with, which could mean 6 monster wipes in your deck. The Robot is fun to attack over with Thunder King for free 3300, too.

[~~~~]

Kaiju?

They're searchable, considering how many of your traps will probably go to graveyard after you use them. I know Gameciel is an expensive rare, but it's pretty much an out to anything whatsoever at this point.

 

There's even the 3 dark hole they come with, which could mean 6 monster wipes in your deck. The Robot is fun to attack over with Thunder King for free 3300, too.

Interesting. I'll consider this, but it will mean changing my build a lot. Thanks.

[Slinky]

tell your judge he's wrong and redirect him to the judge forum.

[~~~~]

tell your judge he's wrong and redirect him to the judge forum.

And make my deck worse? No thanks

[Blake]

And make my deck worse? No thanks

I mean, that's poor sportsmanship at best.

 

You shouldn't need to cheat to win.

[~~~~]

You shouldn't need to cheat to win.

Nah, I shouldn't need to, but it turns out that I do need to.

 

Regardless, are you going to comment something on the topic at hand, or chastise me for not telling a judge how to do his job?

 

EDIT: Anyway, I did tell him that they were optional in Korea when they first came out, but he insisted that he wanted to rule them as they were written. I'm simply not pushing it.

[Slinky]

Nah, I shouldn't need to, but it turns out that I do need to.

 

Regardless, are you going to comment something on the topic at hand, or chastise me for not telling a judge how to do his job?

 

EDIT: Anyway, I did tell him that they were optional in Korea when they first came out, but he insisted that he wanted to rule them as they were written. I'm simply not pushing it.

 

Then tell him that they work like LaDD. Even if they were compulsory, only the one that chained directly to the trap card will be summoned. They either work like LaDD or they are optional.

[Blake]

It's related to the topic at hand. This topic is in terms of Paleozoic, and while the topic is about Denko Sekkaa in title, you very clearly set a discussion precedent with the OP. Don't nitpick.

 

Telling him what Korea said =/= directing him to evidence of the TCG saying it is optional. It's just a really shoddy thing to do, all things considered, because other people could be legitimately testing, yet you're playing a deck that is, rather unfairly, changed by an illegitimate ruling.

[Snatch Steal]

I mean, that's poor sportsmanship at best.

You shouldn't need to cheat to win.

As if there's such thing as good sportsmanship in Yugioh. Winning is better than being honest, quite frankly.

Interesting. I'll consider this, but it will mean changing my build a lot. Thanks.

I mean, you could either just side three Gameciel and 1-2 dogoran and the Slumbers, or you could make your deck half-Kaiju with Kyotou and Thunder King and Kumongous and stuff. I've never played Paleozoic, so my arguments are solely based on the knowledge that they may be able to abuse Kyotou and that Denko is hard to stop if you're going second in a more/less only back row deck.

 

Obviously don't overdo it.

[Slinky]

anyways, outs:

 

Thunder King Rai-oh: now @2, boasts a 1900 beatstick which overrides denko, will not affect you much, if at all, but it can do major damage to your opponent.

 

Raigeki

 

Forbidden Chalice: increases its attack threshold to 2100, but that isn't a problem (since you can just Xyz), as it completely shuts it off for the turn, and is also a quickplay spell card.

 

Breakthrough Skill: Normally run in the Kuribandit/Mill variant. It can completely ignore Denko by activating in the graveyard, and shuts it off for the turn, allowing you to get rid of it.

 

Diskblade Rider: Paleozoics are a trap deck. This makes it a 2200 normal-summonable out to various things that can potentially shut you down. At worst, it trades with Denko anyways. Searchable through ROTA, alongside things like Bull Blader and Exiled Force, which are also potential outs.

 

Tsukuyomi: Just turn it off and run it over. It has 1100 attack, allowing you to just run it over while also flipping it facedown, which also shuts it off.

 

Book of Moon/Book of Eclipse: inferior to Tsukuyomi, but options nonetheless

 

Fissure/Smashing Ground/Hammer Shot: Denko is likely going to be alone, so use these to get rid of it. Fissure is best choice, as even if they summon more stuff, Denko is the more likely one to have less attack. Also less risky than Dark Hole, since it won't kill your sheet.

[Snatch Steal]

anyways, outs:

 

Thunder King Rai-oh: now @2, boasts a 1900 beatstick which overrides denko, will not affect you much, if at all, but it can do major damage to your opponent.

 

Raigeki

 

Forbidden Chalice: increases its attack threshold to 2100, but that isn't a problem (since you can just Xyz), as it completely shuts it off for the turn, and is also a quickplay spell card.

 

Breakthrough Skill: Normally run in the Kuribandit/Mill variant. It can completely ignore Denko by activating in the graveyard, and shuts it off for the turn, allowing you to get rid of it.

 

Diskblade Rider: Paleozoics are a trap deck. This makes it a 2200 normal-summonable out to various things that can potentially shut you down. At worst, it trades with Denko anyways. Searchable through ROTA, alongside things like Bull Blader and Exiled Force, which are also potential outs.

 

Tsukuyomi: Just turn it off and run it over. It has 1100 attack, allowing you to just run it over while also flipping it facedown, which also shuts it off.

 

Book of Moon/Book of Eclipse: inferior to Tsukuyomi, but options nonetheless

 

Fissure/Smashing Ground/Hammer Shot: Denko is likely going to be alone, so use these to get rid of it. Fissure is best choice, as even if they summon more stuff, Denko is the more likely one to have less attack. Also less risky than Dark Hole, since it won't kill your sheet.

Diskblade rider lmao

You're a prodigy

 

I think Breaktrough also has some good utility outside of stopping Denko, so I'd estimate that's probably your best bet. Bear in mind that the card itself can sometimes be mediocre against stuff that doesn't have lingering effects.

[~~~~]

I like the Rai-Oh idea. Thunder vs thunder. I do rely of Anomalocaris' excavate effect a lot, but hopefully I would have negated a summon before then.

 

Chalice and BTS only let me set cards and then they're dead once I end turn, so that's not ideal.

 

Warriors toolbox: would be interesting but Rota is limited and they do nothing else for the deck.

 

Tsukuyomi clashes with Reasoning and Monster Gate, but they are getting worse (as I have to increase monster count for other reasons) anyway.

 

Book of Moon is iffy because I am already basically running 3 (Canadia) and only partly outs it. Eclipse reactivates Denko before my traps are live, so that wouldn't be an option even if it didn't grant them a draw.

 

Fissure etc just seem like worse Raigekis and bad mills. They are interesting only in the fact that they do this job and that they don't clash with Reasoning/Monster Gate.

 

 

 

I will consider and test. Thank you.

 

EDIT: If I'm going to be running monsters which I can't use as Rank 2 Fodder, then Fairy Tail - Snow I think is a good option, since it also does something if I mill it.

[ihop]

Breakthrough Skill only outs Denko if it's already in grave, however. Thunder King, Chalice and Raigeki are your best bets if it's already on board.

[vla1ne]

card trooper may have some utility for you too. the build i run can't fit it, but if you're running pure paleo, then the effect should be insanely easy to benefit from. it kills denko, mills 3 cards (which is usually more of a blessing than a curse in the deck,) and nets you a draw when it dies.

 

also, for a temporary solution, flipflop frog and penguin soldier would bothbe welcome additions, especially since treetoad's coming out soon, which'll give them additional utility.

 

there's always dark hole as well, considering denko will likely be locking out your little trap monsters, there's little risk in running it at one or two.

 

if you want a stylish, yet practical method of doing it, wild tornado x twin twisters/MST would be my personal favorite. you can pop tornado to kill denko. and even without denko present, it still works on pretty much every other card anyways.

[~~~~]

card trooper may have some utility for you too. the build i run can't fit it, but if you're running pure paleo, then the effect should be insanely easy to benefit from. it kills denko, mills 3 cards (which is usually more of a blessing than a curse in the deck,) and nets you a draw when it dies.

 

also, for a temporary solution, flipflop frog and penguin soldier would bothbe welcome additions, especially since treetoad's coming out soon, which'll give them additional utility.

 

there's always dark hole as well, considering denko will likely be locking out your little trap monsters, there's little risk in running it at one or two.

 

if you want a stylish, yet practical method of doing it, wild tornado x twin twisters/MST would be my personal favorite. you can pop tornado to kill denko. and even without denko present, it still works on pretty much every other card anyways.

lol you would have to set wild tornado, which is kinda the problem.

 

Breakthrough Skill only outs Denko if it's already in grave, however. Thunder King, Chalice and Raigeki are your best bets if it's already on board.

Neither Breakthrough or Chalice can out Denko, as they both only let you set cards and then end your turn, at which point Denko is now active again.

[vla1ne]

lol you would have to set wild tornado, which is kinda the problem.

 

true, but when it's already down it turns MST into archfiend eccentrick.

 

for fun, set it off of chalice hitting denko, and then pop it with MST for the lols.

[~~~~]

true, but when it's already down it turns MST into archfiend eccentrick.

 

for fun, set it off of chalice hitting denko, and then pop it with MST for the lols.

Ok mate, I'll let you have your 3 card -2 combo fantasies in peace now.

 

please

[ihop]

Chalice outs Denko from hand

[~~~~]

Chalice outs Denko from hand

No it doesn't.

 

To show you this, let's try it.

 

My first Main Phase of the duel, I went second and my opponent controls Denko Sekka.

I have a load of backrow in hand - oh darn.

But yes! One of these backrow is the mighty Forbidden Chalice.

I activate Chalice, targeting Denko Sekka, negating its effects until the end of the turn.

Now that Denko Sekka's effect no longer applies, can set S/T cards. I set 5 and pass.

My opponent begins their turn. Yes! Now I can activate all my set S/T and disrupt my opponent's brains out!!

owait

[vla1ne]

Ok mate, I'll let you have your 3 card -2 combo fantasies in peace now.

 

please

again, was just saying it for fun, the practical ones would be dark hole, card trooper, and frog/penguin.

[玄魔の王]

As if there's such thing as good sportsmanship in Yugioh. Winning is better than being honest, quite frankly.

And as a result we're going to condone borderline cheating? I'm not sure I wanna be part of this playerbase anymore.

 

As for outing Denko, the things already stated are your best bets, especially Slumber etc.

[~~~~]

ffs, it's not cheating.

 

Other people who use Paleozoics at this place get the same ruling. This is entirely incomparable to hiding cards up your sleeves or wiping greasy acne on your opponent's cards to mark them.

[玄魔の王]

ffs, it's not cheating.

 

Other people who use Paleozoics at this place get the same ruling. This is entirely incomparable to hiding cards up your sleeves or wiping greasy acne on your opponent's cards to mark them.

You're using a ruling you know to be wrong to get an advantage.

 

But I was refering less to this specific case and moree to his general comment of "do whatever to win".

[ihop]

Just because it doesn't compare doesn't mean it's not cheating, you're making plays that are illegal. There's a difference between sportsmanship and cheating, anyway.