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[2DISC] Chimeratech Fortress Dragon and Silent Strider

Valkyrie Lupia Blitzer

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~ P O L A R I S ~ Newbie

~ P O L A R I S ~

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How is CFD banworthy? Machines are already obsolete. Besides' date=' nobody shouted "ban System Down!", so don't see why this is such a problem.

[/quote']

 

The current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

Right. So we'll ban Red-Eyes B. Dragon because he could be good in a different format and keep DAD because the current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

Banning something based on the fact that it could be too good were the format different is no better than banning something based on the fact that it is too good in the current format.

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

Posted
Posted

How is CFD banworthy? Machines are already obsolete. Besides' date=' nobody shouted "ban System Down!", so don't see why this is such a problem.

[/quote']

 

The current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

Right. So we'll ban Red-Eyes B. Dragon because he could be good in a different format and keep DAD because the current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

As usual, you do nothing but set up mindless straw men.

 

Saying that the current format does not determine the banworthiness of a card is not equivalent to saying that nothing justifies the banworthiness of a card and that the banlist should be constructed by throwing darts at the wall and rolling twenty-sided dice.

 

Banning something based on the fact that it could be too good were the format different is no better than banning something based on the fact that it is too good in the current format.

 

First of all' date=' "too good" is never a factor. It's a matter of the Skill-Luck balance. Straw man again.

 

Second of all, it would make more sense to construct the banlist based on the resulting format than based on a format that wouldn't exist in the end anyhow. It's a matter of lag; the problems that should be fixed are the ones that will plague the new format, not the ones that will vanish in the transition.

 

CFD is a card that you just throw in Extra. You play a machine deck, you brain CyDra. You play it. Not too monumental.

 

Do you even read cards, or is that too difficult for you?

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~ P O L A R I S ~ Newbie

~ P O L A R I S ~

Posted
Posted

How is CFD banworthy? Machines are already obsolete. Besides' date=' nobody shouted "ban System Down!", so don't see why this is such a problem.

[/quote']

 

The current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

Right. So we'll ban Red-Eyes B. Dragon because he could be good in a different format and keep DAD because the current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

As usual, you do nothing but set up mindless straw men.

 

Saying that the current format does not determine the banworthiness of a card is not equivalent to saying that nothing justifies the banworthiness of a card and that the banlist should be constructed by throwing darts at the wall and rolling twenty-sided dice.

 

I disagree.

 

Banning something based on the fact that it could be too good were the format different is no better than banning something based on the fact that it is too good in the current format.

 

First of all' date=' "too good" is never a factor. It's a matter of the Skill-Luck balance. Straw man again.

 

[b']Cards that're "too good" are cards that need little to no skill to majorly affect the duel.[/b]

 

Second of all, it would make more sense to construct the banlist based on the resulting format than based on a format that wouldn't exist in the end anyhow. It's a matter of lag; the problems that should be fixed are the ones that will plague the new format, not the ones that will vanish in the transition.

 

The resulting format of what? Banning a card that takes no skill and is dominating the format is what the "resulting format" is a result of in the first place.

 

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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

Posted
Posted

How is CFD banworthy? Machines are already obsolete. Besides' date=' nobody shouted "ban System Down!", so don't see why this is such a problem.

[/quote']

 

The current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

Right. So we'll ban Red-Eyes B. Dragon because he could be good in a different format and keep DAD because the current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

As usual, you do nothing but set up mindless straw men.

 

Saying that the current format does not determine the banworthiness of a card is not equivalent to saying that nothing justifies the banworthiness of a card and that the banlist should be constructed by throwing darts at the wall and rolling twenty-sided dice.

 

I disagree.

 

I'm sorry to hear that your mind is so narrow and shallow that you cannot even conceive of the possibility of any factors at all existing other than whatever crude madness has been dancing in front of your face for the past six months that would be largely obliterated by a mere handful of alterations.

 

Banning something based on the fact that it could be too good were the format different is no better than banning something based on the fact that it is too good in the current format.

 

First of all' date=' "too good" is never a factor. It's a matter of the Skill-Luck balance. Straw man again.

[/quote']

 

Cards that're "too good" are cards that need little to no skill to majorly affect the duel.

 

Terrible cards can also take little to no skill to "majorly" affect a duel. Meanwhile, extremely good cards can be perfectly balanced.

 

Second of all' date=' it would make more sense to construct the banlist based on the resulting format than based on a format that wouldn't exist in the end anyhow. It's a matter of lag; the problems that should be fixed are the ones that will plague the new format, not the ones that will vanish in the transition.

[/quote']

 

The resulting format of what? Banning a card that takes no skill and is dominating the format is what the "resulting format" is a result of in the first place.

 

A banlist should be designed to construct, from the ground upwards, a format of skill. It should not be designed to rectify the flaws of previous formats.

 

Let's say you see DAD waltzing all over everything today. Fine, you ban it, and CCV, and Sangan, and half a dozen other broken cards used in Tele-DAD - but you fail to foresee that the resulting format would have problems with Judgment Dragoon. Or suppose you take care of all such god bosses that would cause problems, but leave Treeborn Frog around on the grounds that it wasn't a problem in Konami's format, and thus allow it to ruin everything. Meanwhile, suppose you sensibly undo several of Konami's random Limits and Semi-Limits, but fail to notice the effect this would have on Accumulated Fortune.

 

The format that is being removed is no longer there; its problems are a thing of the past. What matters is the format you are constructing, and if you cannot properly foresee the results of this construction and act solely based on the previous format, your format will simply replace one set of problems with a new set of problems.

 

Moreover, problem cards are, for the most part, problems regardless of the format. Pot of Greed is an obvious problem regardless of all other factors, despite what you clowns say about how "LOL IT NOT BROKED IF DERE NUTHIN GUD 2 DRAW WIT IT". Painful Choice is always a problem. Sixth Sense, Chaos Emperor Dragon, Sinister Serpent - all of it damages the game regardless of the format. However, when multiple problems are allowed to run rampant, as in Konami's formats, one problem can mask others. For example, Treeborn Frog is a free source of infinite tribute fodder that is banworthy under any good list, but it still has no effect on Konami's format. Conversely, during September 2007, idiots were crying for Raiza to be banned for being "too good", when Raiza was in no way a problem.

 

This is why a detailed analysis of individual cards needs to be made; a mere analysis of the format produces such errors as Limtiing Raiza, Semi-Limiting Rescue Cat, and so on. Any intelligent analysis will reveal that DAD is banworthy and REBD is not, but you don't seem to want minor details like PEOPLE HAVE BRAINS to get in your way.

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~ P O L A R I S ~ Newbie

~ P O L A R I S ~

Posted
Posted

How is CFD banworthy? Machines are already obsolete. Besides' date=' nobody shouted "ban System Down!", so don't see why this is such a problem.

[/quote']

 

The current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

Right. So we'll ban Red-Eyes B. Dragon because he could be good in a different format and keep DAD because the current format is not good reasoning to justify the banworthiness of a said card.

 

As usual, you do nothing but set up mindless straw men.

 

Saying that the current format does not determine the banworthiness of a card is not equivalent to saying that nothing justifies the banworthiness of a card and that the banlist should be constructed by throwing darts at the wall and rolling twenty-sided dice.

 

I disagree.

 

I'm sorry to hear that your mind is so narrow and shallow that you cannot even conceive of the possibility of any factors at all existing other than whatever crude madness has been dancing in front of your face for the past six months that would be largely obliterated by a mere handful of alterations.

 

If you perceive me as shallow for believing that analyzing what's happening today has NOTHING to do with how banlists are made, then fine, that's how you're going to have to perceive me.

 

Banning something based on the fact that it could be too good were the format different is no better than banning something based on the fact that it is too good in the current format.

 

First of all' date=' "too good" is never a factor. It's a matter of the Skill-Luck balance. Straw man again.

[/quote']

 

Cards that're "too good" are cards that need little to no skill to majorly affect the duel.

 

Terrible cards can also take little to no skill to "majorly" affect a duel. Meanwhile, extremely good cards can be perfectly balanced.

 

Depends on what you mean by "good". CED-Envoy is good in the sense that it's good in your Deck, but not good in the sense that it's not good for the format.

 

Second of all' date=' it would make more sense to construct the banlist based on the resulting format than based on a format that wouldn't exist in the end anyhow. It's a matter of lag; the problems that should be fixed are the ones that will plague the new format, not the ones that will vanish in the transition.

[/quote']

 

The resulting format of what? Banning a card that takes no skill and is dominating the format is what the "resulting format" is a result of in the first place.

 

A banlist should be designed to construct, from the ground upwards, a format of skill. It should not be designed to rectify the flaws of previous formats.

 

Once you rectify the flaws, you have format of skill. If you rectify every flaw possible, you have a perfect skill-based format. You seem to think that basing list decisions based on what will happen in the meta and what will happen in the meta as a consequence of the list decision don't have ANYTHING whatsoever to do with the construction of a format of skill.

 

Let's say you see DAD waltzing all over everything today. Fine, you ban it, and CCV, and Sangan, and half a dozen other broken cards used in Tele-DAD - but you fail to foresee that the resulting format would have problems with Judgment Dragoon. Or suppose you take care of all such god bosses that would cause problems, but leave Treeborn Frog around on the grounds that it wasn't a problem in Konami's format, and thus allow it to ruin everything. Meanwhile, suppose you sensibly undo several of Konami's random Limits and Semi-Limits, but fail to notice the effect this would have on Accumulated Fortune.

 

Yes, once you take care of the cards that require little to no skill in the meta, you can then solve problems with other cards that require little to no skill that would take over as a consequence, but what's happening now is the root. To say that what's happening in the format today has NOTHING to do with how a banlist is constructed is something I disagree with.

 

The format that is being removed is no longer there; its problems are a thing of the past. What matters is the format you are constructing, and if you cannot properly foresee the results of this construction and act solely based on the previous format, your format will simply replace one set of problems with a new set of problems.

 

I agree. I never didn't agree to this.

 

Moreover, problem cards are, for the most part, problems regardless of the format. Pot of Greed is an obvious problem regardless of all other factors, despite what you clowns say about how "LOL IT NOT BROKED IF DERE NUTHIN GUD 2 DRAW WIT IT". Painful Choice is always a problem. Sixth Sense, Chaos Emperor Dragon, Sinister Serpent - all of it damages the game regardless of the format. However, when multiple problems are allowed to run rampant, as in Konami's formats, one problem can mask others. For example, Treeborn Frog is a free source of infinite tribute fodder that is banworthy under any good list, but it still has no effect on Konami's format. Conversely, during September 2007, idiots were crying for Raiza to be banned for being "too good", when Raiza was in no way a problem.

 

I never said Pot of Greed wasn't banworthy, it takes no skill and creates instant obvious advantage with no drawbacks. I disagree on your point of Raiza however. The monarchs don't take skill to use and instantly generate advantages, although Raiza wasn't the only Monarch which deserved placement.

 

This is why a detailed analysis of individual cards needs to be made; a mere analysis of the format produces such errors as Limtiing Raiza, Semi-Limiting Rescue Cat, and so on. Any intelligent analysis will reveal that DAD is banworthy and REBD is not, but you don't seem to want minor details like PEOPLE HAVE BRAINS to get in your way.

 

Yes, but a part of this "intelligent analysis" is analysis of what's happening in the game today. I obviously wasn't serious about Red-Eyes being banworthy, I think you know that, but if you made decisions that were in no way based on what's happening in today's duels, the resulting list should have a few problems to say the least.

 

 

 

Summarize that into a few words to be sigged?

Post is win.

 

This is the problem with YCM's TCG section.

 

 

 

"If you have a brain' date=' use it. If not, shut up, you simple-minded fool."

 

SO YEAH.

[/quote']

 

I've given you what I have to say. If you disagree, I'm fine with that. But I'd be grateful if you'd stop abusing the fact that people look up to you to make others who disagree with you into "simple-minded fools."

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~ P O L A R I S ~ Newbie

~ P O L A R I S ~

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Posted
This is the problem with YCM's TCG section.

Good Ygoz is wrong with the TCG section?

 

No, the TCG section's got a lot going for it, like good ygoz, but mindless sheep following their leader simply because they have no idea what to think and because they need someone to tell them what to think, which is why you agree every time and constantly sig their quotes and suck up to them, you want to be in the leader's good sheep book so that you won't be made into a fool by the masses of other "leader's sheep".

 

"Oh grate leeder gimmee quotes 4 my siggy pl0x" is not showing independent thinking, it is showing sheep-ism. If you can't think for yourself and merely reiterate what your leader throws at you, you are not helping anyone, you are being a Sarah Palin.

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