[Leaderboard] - Abdelrahman vs Yuuko ( Closed )

[Abdelrahman]

Rules:

-All Leaderboard rules apply

-Best of 3 votes wins

-All voters must elaborate on their votes.

-Both contestants have the right to refuse votes, but must explain why they don't accept it.

-Cards must be PM'd to me, preferably written.

-Remove any evidence of the card being made by you to ensure anonymity

-In case a downtime happens, the deadlines may be extended.

 

Deadlines:

-Contestants have 48 hours ( 72 if needed ) to submit their entries.

-The contest ends after cards are uploaded in 3 days. After that, if no one voted, next vote wins.

 

Rewards:

-The winner gets a rep from the loser.

-All voters get a rep for voting.

 

Requirements:

Cyber Dragon support card

 

Entries:

[spoiler=Card A ( 0 Votes )]Cybernetic Factory

Continuous Spell

All face-up "Cyber Dragon" monsters you control gain 500 ATK and cannot be targeted by card effects. Once per turn, you can discard 1 card; add 1 "Cyber Dragon" monster from your Deck or your Graveyard to your hand. If this card is destroyed by a card effect: You can target 1 of your banished "Cyber Dragon" monsters; add that target to your hand. You can only control 1 face-up "Cybernetic Factory.

 

 

[spoiler=Card B ( 3 Votes )]Cyber Dragon Vier

LIGHT / Level 5

Machine / Effect

ATK: 1900 DEF: 500

If you control a "Cyber Dragon" monster, you can Special Summon this card (from your hand). You can only Special Summon "Cyber Dragon Vier" once per turn this way. If this card is Normal Summoned: You can target 1 "Cyber Dragon" in your Graveyard; Special Summon it, and if you do, you can change its Level to 5. This card's name becomes "Cyber Dragon" while it is on the field or in the Graveyard.

 

 

Card C ( 0 Votes )

[Yuuji Kazami]

Artifact support or D.D support. =/

[Abdelrahman]

Well normally I would accept but you can't enter more than 3 contests at a time.

[Yuuji Kazami]

Last one ended mate. So this is my third one again.

[Abdelrahman]

Alright then but I don't think I am familiar with the Archetypes you mentioned above so can you choose different ones?

[Yuuji Kazami]

Not even artifacts. Hm.

 

Just choose a topic yourself then. I'm familiar with pretty much everything.

[Abdelrahman]

Yeah I left the game for a while and returned during the Pendulum era so I am not too familiar with the new stuff. Anyway wanna try HERO's again?

[Yuuji Kazami]

You already did that once with me...

 

Aren't you familiar with anything else?

[Abdelrahman]

Well I am also familiar with Cyber Dragons, Gadgets and Red-Eyes.

[Yuuji Kazami]

I don't mind doing Cyber Dragons, since it's the one I haven't done for awhile.

 

So Cyber Dragon support?

[Abdelrahman]

Alright then.

[Abdelrahman]

Cards are up, voting starts now.

[Yuuji Kazami]

Bump. =(

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

It's only been 3 and a half hours, Yuuko; not like this thread's on page 2 right now -_-

 

But yeah, let's go. 

 

Card A grants your CyDra stuff immunity to targeting removal, which does exist pretty often nowadays and a decent power bonus. Then again, it lets you recycle stuff like Drei and Core so you can re-trigger their NS effects (make CyDra Level 5 so you can Nova/Infinity, or search out Network/Repair Plant/another copy of this). Or really, discard Core in hand, add Drei or something, banish Core, SS original CyDra and you can figure out the rest. Guess it's also useful when Network blows up and you need to retrieve something. 

 

Yeah, it gives them more options outside of Repair Plant to get things going, especially in the early game which Plant isn't great at. Power bonus is nice, although the CyDra Fusions can't really get the bonus (not like they need to). Also makes dealing with CDI a bit more painful too (2600 minimum that absorbs monsters and opponent can't really do much except run it over in battle, if they can). 

 

----

Card B is basically a more instant Rank 5 enabler than Drei is; in the sense that it can build off of you SSing a normal CyDra, then get this out and Rank 5 into anything you want (generically). You can still chain this off Drei too, but then you're locked into Nova (and the subsequent infinity), unless you run 33 in CyDra but why? To be fair, I really don't see how you'll get the Tribute Summon off, unless again, you SS CyDra first, then Tribute Summon this and revive it (sounds convoluted though). 

 

(I suppose you can use it on a smaller CyDra monster and revive it to make it Level 5) 

 

From my runs with CyDras, I generally don't Tribute Summon stuff and usually just Rank 5 or make the Fusions and go for game. This is a more generic Rank 5 enabler for them, so that helps them with Xyz plays.

 

------

I do like both cards, but as a whole, I think A answers more of the things they needed to patch up (and that's faster [re]cycling for their members and some protection from common removal [not talking about Raigeki and all]), so voting for that. 

 

Don't get me wrong, B is also good and generic Rank 5s are nice instead of being locked into Nova/Infinity with Drei (admittedly it's still a good play), but I just don't see that second effect triggering much; least from my testing with CyDras. 

[Abdelrahman]

Score is 0-1 to Card A unless Yuuko has any objections.

[Yuuji Kazami]

It's only been 3 and a half hours, Yuuko; not like this thread's on page 2 right now -_-

 

But yeah, let's go.

 

Card A grants your CyDra stuff immunity to targeting removal, which does exist pretty often nowadays and a decent power bonus. Then again, it lets you recycle stuff like Drei and Core so you can re-trigger their NS effects (make CyDra Level 5 so you can Nova/Infinity, or search out Network/Repair Plant/another copy of this). Or really, discard Core in hand, add Drei or something, banish Core, SS original CyDra and you can figure out the rest. Guess it's also useful when Network blows up and you need to retrieve something.

 

Yeah, it gives them more options outside of Repair Plant to get things going, especially in the early game which Plant isn't great at. Power bonus is nice, although the CyDra Fusions can't really get the bonus (not like they need to). Also makes dealing with CDI a bit more painful too (2600 minimum that absorbs monsters and opponent can't really do much except run it over in battle, if they can).

 

----

Card B is basically a more instant Rank 5 enabler than Drei is; in the sense that it can build off of you SSing a normal CyDra, then get this out and Rank 5 into anything you want (generically). You can still chain this off Drei too, but then you're locked into Nova (and the subsequent infinity), unless you run 33 in CyDra but why? To be fair, I really don't see how you'll get the Tribute Summon off, unless again, you SS CyDra first, then Tribute Summon this and revive it (sounds convoluted though).

 

(I suppose you can use it on a smaller CyDra monster and revive it to make it Level 5)

 

From my runs with CyDras, I generally don't Tribute Summon stuff and usually just Rank 5 or make the Fusions and go for game. This is a more generic Rank 5 enabler for them, so that helps them with Xyz plays.

 

------

I do like both cards, but as a whole, I think A answers more of the things they needed to patch up (and that's faster [re]cycling for their members and some protection from common removal [not talking about Raigeki and all]), so voting for that.

 

Don't get me wrong, B is also good and generic Rank 5s are nice instead of being locked into Nova/Infinity with Drei (admittedly it's still a good play), but I just don't see that second effect triggering much; least from my testing with CyDras.

 

You get a rep just for the emotion shown in the first sentence alone~ =3

 

Btw, when Network blows up for Card A, keep in mind that the SS effect of your banished Machines is not an optional effect, but a mandatory that forces you to SS as much as possible when it dies. In all honesty, the only time that you would use Network on a target would be Drei when you're desperate. Float effect would only really be used if Network wasn't played at all.

 

Also, for CDI, I wouldn't really consider just 2600 being a minimum for Cyber Infinity. If Nova Xyz Evols into Inifnity upon its own Xyz Summon, you're looking at 3 Xyz Materials + the 500 boost + being untargetable. It'll be at 3200 ATK at that time, 3400 instead if it absorbs a monster on Summon. Not sure if you feel that's still making Infinity balanced tbh.

 

A thing to note for Card B is that aside from Instant Fusion a Lv 5 Machine after SS the original Cyber Dragon, it's hard to R5 if you already have the original on the field but no Instant Fusion or Galaxy Soldier in hand. Also, considering people do run Cyber Core and maybe Drei sometimes, depending on the build, it's to point out that NSing one of these guys makes the original Lv 5 Cyber Dragon a dead card.

 

In a sense, both cards worked towards te bricking issue that sometimes occur with the archetype. It wasn't surprising that mechanics could beat out flavour in some cases, depending on the voter. The vote's completely valid and all that I guess.

[Abdelrahman]

What does flavour mean in this forum? Card's name? Also does it affect voting for the card?

[Flash Flyer - Sakura]

[spoiler=(name here)]
card and effect goes here
[/spoiler]

As for flavor, it basically means design notes. In card B's case, it's named Vier (which is German for 4, and follows Zwei and Drei in naming; 2/3). Because it's Archetypal, did you at least try to follow the naming patterns? 

 

Flavor does count, but how often it counts depends on the individual member. I tend to grade more on usability / general balance, but flavor factors in a little bit. 

[Yuuji Kazami]

 

[spoiler=(name here)]
card and effect goes here
[/spoiler]

As for flavor, it basically means design notes. In card B's case, it's named Vier (which is German for 4, and follows Zwei and Drei in naming; 2/3). Because it's Archetypal, did you at least try to follow the naming patterns? 

 

Flavor does count, but how often it counts depends on the individual member. I tend to grade more on usability / general balance, but flavor factors in a little bit.

Bump.

 

It depends on the voter. Besides, aside from the naming scheme, there's also effects fitting with the name as well as sticking with the overall theme, etc. It's not just the name.

[Trebuchet MS]

Card A

The 500 ATK boost can be enough to allow base Cyber Dragon to beat in a few monsters it can't trump in battle, but not boss standards. In terms of the other Cyber Dragons, Zwei can actually kill things now at 2000-2300, and Drei can function well at 2300 for no Tributes. Proto and Core have too low stats to matter, though the rage-inducing Infinity becomes 3200 at first (and scales up as it eats things), which is even more infuriating to deal with when it's also untargetable.

 

But perhaps the main attraction is the other two effects. Discarding to pick up a Cydra from Deck or Graveyard adds fluidity and consistency to the Deck, seeing that it can also set up Cyber Repair Plant for more tutoring or just get rid of an unneeded card to set up a Summon. This would be pretty much the main reason to run it; the other two effects look like icing on the cake.

 

Now, this last effect looks like it's designed to combo with Network, but seeing that Network does the SS before the blowing up, you really need to do a lot of banishing before actually finding a monster to reclaim. Usually you'd be getting Drei to set up another R5 play, though if push comes to shove you can collect Core to tutor another copy of this card and resume the value train.

 

Card B

Alright. Another Maindeck Cydra. These are always welcome since Rampage Dragon is slightly picky with its Materials and effect, Toon Cydra isn't always the best option to run, and Zwei has sadly been outclassed in several ways. Vier combos with original Cydra to set up a Rank 5 play. Or you can expend a Tribute Summon on it for roughly the same thing.

 

Uh. Right. I'm not exactly certain why that effect is there. If you can NS this card in pure Cydras, chances are you already have a Cydra on the field and can SS this card anyway. Unless you're pushing a 3-mat Rank 5 play or something. If that Cydra is Core, what are you doing that results in Core being on the field unscathed? Either way, it can easily take up a spot that would be otherwise wasted by running Zwei.

 

The Verdict

Both cards fill in for something that the Cydra Deck lacks. Card A gives a new competent Core tutor target, while Card B adds a member to the family that can do Zwei's work. However, I feel the protection and buff from Card A works a little too well since it turns Cydra Infinity into an absolute nightmare to stand against. And that can't be overlooked given how easily Cydras can get it out. Let's not forget that this card doesn't affect the Fusions so it subtly pushes towards the Infinity route, which is something that doesn't quite sit well with me.

 

Card B gets the vote.

[Yuuji Kazami]

1-1 unless objections from Abdel.

 

The flaw with Card B when used in correspondence with something like Core is recognized. The thing is, there are times in which you would not have anything on the field, and you lack one of the normal Cyber Dragons in your hand. But let's say that you do have core, Card B, and Galaxy Soldier in hand with some other unusable cards at the moment. Obviously, the optimal play is to SS Galaxy, Tribute for Card B, target a Cyber Dragon in your Graveyard and work your way from there.

 

The second effect is more or less to create a more optimal play in circumstances where the first effect would not benefit you as much. Playing and owning Cyberspace personally, I can attest that there are times where you cannot get 2 Level 5 machine monsters on the field when you need it more than Core's search effect.

 

Another point to mention is that Card B allows you to make other R5 plays as opposed to only performing the Nova to Infinity route. If the effect had not been made on a Normal Summon, it would do its job too well as a Cyber Dragon.

 

For the points about A, you've pretty much hit the mark on everything, and it seems that there was no questions there. There is the problem of a 3200 Infinity going on 3400 that makes it card to remove, as you noticed.

[Abdelrahman]

Ok he voted for B as he felt that A was a little broken when Infinity is played, I just have one thing to say, Infinity is still prone to solemns and grand horn to negate its summon so it isn't really that bad but your vote is still approved.

[Yuuji Kazami]

Ok he voted for B as he felt that A was a little broken when Infinity is played, I just have one thing to say, Infinity is still prone to solemns and grand horn to negate its summon so it isn't really that bad but your vote is still approved.

To quote wise words from Saku-tan: You can't always assume that the opponent will have removal on hand. =P

 

(Wait a second here... Saku-tan wtf happened here then?)

 

...Not only that, The removal is limited to only non-targeting and counter traps that negate the Summon. It isn't really supporting your argument of not being that bad if Counter Traps and Raigeki are your only examples of removal. Don't forget CDI can also negate Raigeki, but in all honesty, it just needs to protect Card A to make your opponent's life difficult.

 

That just limits it to Counter Traps or your opponent trying to pop Card A using his resources, but again, there's also the possible float effect to make it more disadvantageous for your opponent. If you played Cybers with the current builds, you would understand that Card A does a little too much to the point of being oppressive with CDI.

[Abdelrahman]

Bump.

[Abdelrahman]

Bump. Also can anyone please vote? I mean we only need one more to decide this one.