Fixing the format in a baker's dozen bans.

[Guest Star]

The list is good, and it would definitely help the game. The only issue I have is Mind Control being banned. It's just that the only reason it's really used is for Synchro Summons unless you're playing against Gladiators, and even then it's a bit situational.

 

You might have some kind of explanation that explains what I seem to be missing here; if that's the case, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

[Crow™]

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

Now I definetly will change my name to Crow Helmet.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

The list is good' date=' and it would definitely help the game. The only issue I have is Mind Control being banned. It's just that the only reason it's really used is for Synchro Summons unless you're playing against Gladiators, and even then it's a bit situational.

 

[/quote']

 

Synchro Summons are bad. The support or promotion of Synchro Summons isn't good.

 

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

Now I definetly will change my name to Crow Helmet.

 

Whirlwind's a +stupid and gets BW Decks the BWs they need to win unfairly.

[Exiro]

Cold Wave

Mind Control

 

Hm?

 

Short explanation:

 

Cold Wave - GO OTK SWARM GO

 

Mind Control - It's Change of Heart nowadays.

 

Longer explanations are available if you want them' date=' but I have a couple changes to make first.

[/quote']

 

Well, I understand why Cold Wave, but doesn't Mind Control still require skill and balance itself out with it's limitations? If we exclude any effects, it's a +1 at the highest, and that is if you steal a monster and use it in a Synchro Summon, while nobody can guarantee you that you will actually be able to do that. It depends on your opponent.

 

Also, I said 'if we exclude any effects', because we'll assume that, no matter what you steal, the effect won't be broken. If your opponent is allowed to use the effect, you should also be.

[Crow™]

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

Now I definetly will change my name to Crow Helmet.

 

Whirlwind's a +stupid and gets BW Decks the BWs they need to win unfairly.

I fail to see what's wrong with that.

[Sunshine Jesse]

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

Now I definetly will change my name to Crow Helmet.

 

Whirlwind's a +stupid and gets BW Decks the BWs they need to win unfairly.

I fail to see what's wrong with that.

Oh yeah, the blind fanboy thing

[Guest Star]

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

Now I definetly will change my name to Crow Helmet.

Whirlwind's a +stupid and gets BW Decks the BWs they need to win unfairly.

What?! I love Blackwings way too much to even care about the state of the game! Come on guys' date=' you can't ban the card that helps my Deck win! Who cares about creativity?!

[/quote']

 

Fix'd.

[CrabHelmet]

I support the banning of Rescue Cat' date=' Brionac, Black Whirlwind, and everything else there. I think more bans could help though. Like Demise. And Coel. And stuff.

[/quote']

 

I'm just trying to get rid of the most immediate problems with the game, and as near as I can make out, the ones on the list are the ones that need attention most urgently. Basically, if I could only kill 13 cards, these would be the ones.

 

Heavy Storm and Mind Control need explanations.

 

You want an explanation for Heavy Storm' date=' but you don't want an explanation for Cold Wave? That alone is sufficient for me to deny you any explanation.

[/quote']

 

Leaving me with my dignity still intact and still not caring about what you say itt until you explain yourself. ;)

 

Alrighty then.

 

On top of the ridiculous support that it gives to your standard Swarm OTKs and its ludicrous punishment of non-chainables, Heavy Storm gives a ridiculous advantage to whichever player is ludicrously lucky enough to draw into it while the opponent does not do so. Like Dark Hole, it ought to have been killed immediately, and the only reason anyone should ever have wanted to keep it around was that there was simply no mass s/t removal (and thus s/t overextension punishment) available in its absence (whereas plenty of mass monster removal, such as Lightning Vortex, was around). However, this excuse has worn thin for several reasons: the changes in card design that have accompanied the Synchro mechanic have made Swarm OTKs a larger threat than ever, more mass s/t removal (though much of it is themed) has been released, and Heavy is simply so powerful that the benefit it brings is insufficient to justify keeping it legal.

 

It's also amusing that people are constantly making new "banlists" although we (should) know it won't affect Konami one bit. (I'm returning so you can massively quote me with more ease.)

 

Konami's lists are unworthy of discussion.

 

The list is good' date=' and it would definitely help the game. The only issue I have is Mind Control being banned. It's just that the only reason it's really used is for Synchro Summons unless you're playing against Gladiators, and even then it's a bit situational.

 

You might have some kind of explanation that explains what I seem to be missing here; if that's the case, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

[/quote']

 

Basically, Mind Control is too much like Change of Heart now. The Synchro Summon mechanic alone makes it a pure +1 virtually all of the time and removes an opponent's blocker in the process, and that's before you factor in the other uses for it (like Cyber Valley) and the fact that it also allows you to use the stolen card's effect (which, coupled with the absence of Brain Control's face-up clause, means Flip Effects can be stolen). Modern card design has caused its restrictions to lose much of their original meaning.

 

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

 

Do you honestly think that you actually matter to me enough for your personal tastes to influence my list design? Stupid rookie.

 

Cold Wave

Mind Control

 

Hm?

 

Short explanation:

 

Cold Wave - GO OTK SWARM GO

 

Mind Control - It's Change of Heart nowadays.

 

Longer explanations are available if you want them' date=' but I have a couple changes to make first.

[/quote']

 

Well, I understand why Cold Wave, but doesn't Mind Control still require skill and balance itself out with it's limitations? If we exclude any effects, it's a +1 at the highest, and that is if you steal a monster and use it in a Synchro Summon, while nobody can guarantee you that you will actually be able to do that. It depends on your opponent.

 

Also, I said 'if we exclude any effects', because we'll assume that, no matter what you steal, the effect won't be broken. If your opponent is allowed to use the effect, you should also be.

 

Using Mind Control as part of a Synchro Summon or whatever is far too easy and does not require enough skill to justify the easy +1.

 

Let's not exclude the effects, because the effects are highly relevant here. Saying that the opponent having the effect permits you to use the effect does not provide justification, as the effect is not being paid for separately but rather is being grafted on as an added bonus to Mind Control. If your opponent has a Lyla, then they're spending a card to put Lyla on the field and use her effect. If you steal Lyla with Mind Control, then you get a +2 instead of a +1, because using Lyla's effect doesn't cost you anything extra; it's an extra effect augmented into Mind Control, not a separate effect that you buy with another card. If you steal a Dekoichi, then Mind Control has an extra "also, draw a card to replace me" effect added to it (AND your opponent's floater can no longer float).

 

I fail

 

We know.

 

Everyone, drain the glass.

[Mister Sir]

Heavy Storm and Mind Control need explanations.

 

You want an explanation for Heavy Storm' date=' but you don't want an explanation for Cold Wave? That alone is sufficient for me to deny you any explanation.

[/quote']

 

Leaving me with my dignity still intact and still not caring about what you say itt until you explain yourself. ;)

 

Alrighty then.

 

On top of the ridiculous support that it gives to your standard Swarm OTKs and its ludicrous punishment of non-chainables, Heavy Storm gives a ridiculous advantage to whichever player is ludicrously lucky enough to draw into it while the opponent does not do so. Like Dark Hole, it ought to have been killed immediately, and the only reason anyone should ever have wanted to keep it around was that there was simply no mass s/t removal (and thus s/t overextension punishment) available in its absence (whereas plenty of mass monster removal, such as Lightning Vortex, was around). However, this excuse has worn thin for several reasons: the changes in card design that have accompanied the Synchro mechanic have made Swarm OTKs a larger threat than ever, more mass s/t removal (though much of it is themed) has been released, and Heavy is simply so powerful that the benefit it brings is insufficient to justify keeping it legal.

 

I fail

 

We know.

 

Everyone' date=' drain the glass.

[/quote']

 

Thanks for the elaboration, Crab.

 

I have also drained my glass.

[Sunshine Jesse]

I only drank shots at a time and my liver still died.

brb, afterlife

[「tea.leaf」]

Crab has to stop posting.

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

I only drank shots at a time and my liver still died.

brb' date=' afterlife

[/quote']

 

A sip is more than a shot? Wha?

[Sunshine Jesse]

I only drank shots at a time and my liver still died.

brb' date=' afterlife

[/quote']

 

A sip is more than a shot? Wha?

 

I meant sip

Hey, its kinda warm in here.

[~ P O L A R I S ~]

ridiculous support

 

That's 1.

 

Heavy Storm gives a ridiculous advantage

 

That's 2.

 

to whichever player is ludicrously

 

That's 3.

 

Konami's lists are unworthy of discussion.

 

That's 4.

 

 

inb4 SynchroDuelist rages at Black Whirlwind

Crab did that to get me p.o'd. Not much other reason.

 

Do you honestly think that you actually matter to me enough for your personal tastes to influence my list design? Stupid rookie.

 

That's 6.

 

I fail

 

We know.

 

That's 8' date=' all in a single post. Getting tipsy.

 

 

I'm just trying to get rid of the most immediate problems with the game, and as near as I can make out, the ones on the list are the ones that need attention most urgently. Basically, if I could only kill 13 cards, these would be the ones.

 

Originally, that number was 10 (or supposed to be anyway.) If I could only kill 13 cards seems to be becoming "If I could kill X+Y cards" (X being whatever that cap's currently at, and Y being whatever we happen to be increasing it by) to the point where the cap is irrelevant, and the thread's just about banning cards in general. Might as well ban a couple more while we're at it right? Then after that we could shape it into a 3-0 list right?

 

It's already been established that there's no solid limit, so let's pile more stuff on for the thread's sake.

[CrabHelmet]

Drinking game stuff.

 

You missed the part about ludicrous punishment. Take another sip.

 

Also' date=' me repeating that word in this post counts too. Take another sip.

 

I'm just trying to get rid of the most immediate problems with the game' date=' and as near as I can make out, the ones on the list are the ones that need attention most urgently. Basically, if I could only kill 13 cards, these would be the ones.[/quote']

 

Originally, that number was 10 (or supposed to be anyway.) If I could only kill 13 cards seems to be becoming "If I could kill X+Y cards" (X being whatever that cap's currently at, and Y being whatever we happen to be increasing it by) to the point where the cap is irrelevant, and the thread's just about banning cards in general. Might as well ban a couple more while we're at it right? Then after that we could shape it into a 3-0 list right?

 

It's already been established that there's no solid limit, so let's pile more stuff on for the thread's sake.

 

Originally it was 10, really 11 due to a mistake. However, going any further than a Baker's Dozen makes the problems too indirect; 13 is the final cap.

[.:pyramid:.]

heavy storm??

the only reason i could see it being ban worthy;

 

its that it can be a costless advantage card.

 

however;

 

1. this depends on the state of the meta, because most spell and trap cards thats played atm are chain-able so this isnt as game as it could be.

 

counter argument;

 

1. the meta shouldnt be able to change how ban worthy a card is

 

2. this tops non-chainable cards from making appearances, so it limits the competitive card pool

 

3. prevents the slow down of the game. slow meta=more skillfull, because of the lack of otk/ftks around.

 

but it does add to the game;

 

1. it punishes over extending

 

2. and it does stop both players from overextending, because if storm an take out multiple targets both players will not want to commit without thinking.

 

 

i know how i set it out was bad but i didn't want to write loads. also by writing this i'm not so sure XD.

[CrabHelmet]

@pyramid: Go read my previously posted explanation of why Heavy is banworthy. Alternatively, consider why Dark Hole is banworthy.

[.:pyramid:.]

@pyramid: Go read my previously posted explanation of why Heavy is banworthy. Alternatively' date=' consider why Dark Hole is banworthy.

[/quote']

soz i had a quick look at the firt page and saw no1 ask so i just posted.

 

edit: with the kitty being drowned, and taking away the win condition of dad,ls,gbs (holding the field with gurazy) is cold wave still necessary ban-able and promote otks. sure thiers still bw but with no search engine they will struggle to otk, and would need a next to god hand.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Cold Wave - GO OTK SWARM GO

 

Shouldn't you be prohibiting the card(s) that help create the swarm rather then going after a card that only helps the swarm stay alive?

[CrabHelmet]

Cold Wave - GO OTK SWARM GO

 

Shouldn't you be prohibiting the card(s) that help create the swarm rather then going after a card that only helps the swarm stay alive?

 

There are too many of them, especially with modern card design focusing heavily on monsters with the ability to Special Summon more monsters. For a full-blown comprehensive 3/0 list, you can debate Giant Trunade and Cold Wave (though Heavy Storm is still pretty much a goner) and see if you can block the swarms, but if you're trying to fix things quickly with only a small number of moves, stopping the swarms from being unblockable is the simplest solution.

[Guest Chaos Pudding]

You could almost get away with not banning Rescue Cat when DSF and Brionac are banned.

[CrabHelmet]

You could almost get away with not banning Rescue Cat when DSF and Brionac are banned.

 

I don't want Summon Priest + 2 Spells = Double Arcanite to work, I don't want the Naturia Synchros to be Normal Summoned without Tribute from the hand, and I generally don't want that bloody cat around.

[Cypress]

BAN ALL OF THIS except reborn and cold wave, cuz those are the only cards i have and deck at most given moments

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

BAN ALL OF THIS except reborn and cold wave' date=' cuz those are the only cards i have and deck at most given moments

[/quote']

 

Flawless reasoning.

[Cypress]

BAN ALL OF THIS except reborn and cold wave' date=' cuz those are the only cards i have and deck at most given moments

[/quote']

 

Flawless reasoning.

 

i KNOW, isn't it great resoning?! :D