Infernity Launcher. Is it Bannable?

[TheTurtleOnceCalledGod]

Infernities will probably not last (be as consistent) the next banlist in TCG, either this or archfiend will be semi'd or limited, and perhaps limits for the others too.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

Chain D.D. Crow' date=' you mad?

[/quote']

 

SS Chaos Emperor Dragon

 

Chain Solemn Judgment, you mad?

 

 

... Eh, but I know you're kind of a competent guy, so I guess this message kind of goes out to the rest?

 

In the game, it is the biggest insult to allow a metagame to become so centralized to the point where the only decks are "THE cookie cutter deck" and "the anti-cookie cutter deck". Likewise, this line of thinking falls to cards as well. D.D. Crow was commonly used tech against Monarch decks with Treeborn Frog. However the line of thinking was horrendous. You absolutely HAD to run Crow in order to stop Frog.

 

... tl;dr: Just 'cause a card can be stopped doesn't mean it's any less bannable.

[evilfusion]

[spoiler=miniature rant]I've said this before in different discussions' date=' but Launcher is easily the most broken card of the support. It makes Infernity awesome, but it comes at the price of being absurdly powerful. Being able to activate multiple of these in one turn is what breaks it. Archfiend is an amazing searcher and definitely contributes loads to the combo, but I rather let Launcher die than lose Archfiend's usefulness to the archetype.

 

Infernity Mirage does what Launcher does, but comes with balanced restrictions, such as poor stats, the inability to Special Summon from the graveyard, the fact you HAVE to Special Summon 2 monsters, and the fact Mirage requires your Normal Summon if you didn't Summon it from the deck. For the record, DD Crow should not bother Launcher too much, because Launcher can summon UP TO 2, so sure Crow may break the combo, but it won't doom Launcher's usefulness entirely. Mirage needs 2, so Crow would make its effect disappear.

 

The combo, as most people know, is to use this to summon Archfiend and possible Necromancer, if not a Tuner (or use Necromancer to summon the Tuner), use Archfiend to search this, activate it. Synchro something, rinse and repeat. Archfiend's most dangerous search target is this, almost all the other Infernity cards it can search is nowhere near as deadly as Launcher can be. I strongly believe Launcher should take the hit of the Infernity cards, because of how its effect almost guarantees game.

 

Without Launcher, or with only 1, Infernity will still be powerful and explosive, but it won't be a chain explosion the way it is now. Archfiend adds speed and versatility, but I don't think Archfiend is the problem the way this card is. I don't want to see this card banned, because its first effect is very useful to the Infernity theme, but frankly, the second effect being so broken in combo with Archfiend is just too much.

 

With Infernity decks in testing already proving to be a match for competition (if the people in the My Deck section are to be believed, but my own testing has all but confirmed it), and with Infernity so hyped before TSHD was even released, I have no doubt whatsoever that SOMETHING in the theme is going to get limited hard. Konami is not so idiotic to let this theme go unchecked.

 

The TCG does have the advantage of our exclusive, Infernity Barrier, but it won't stay exclusive for long. It's Japan. They'll get it before we get some of their shiny stuff.

 

My present prediction is that Launcher will get limited, and Archfiend and Necromancer are on shaky ground, possibly semis or limits themselves, but Archfiend is the most likely hit in tandem with Launcher.

 

Even with some definite anti-Infernity options available, the deck is so explosive that limitations of some kind will be almost inevitable. And while Pika can deny it, Infernity will be a force to be reckoned with until this limit occurs.

 

 

[/quote']

 

[spoiler=Response]

I doubt even Konami will be that stupid.

 

 

 

Touche. Oh wow, touche.

[Canadian]

If this goes to 1 or less and JD stays at 2, theres something wrong here.

[BehindTheMask]

Chain D.D. Crow' date=' you mad?

[/quote']

 

SS Chaos Emperor Dragon

 

Chain Solemn Judgment, you mad?

 

 

... Eh, but I know you're kind of a competent guy, so I guess this message kind of goes out to the rest?

 

In the game, it is the biggest insult to allow a metagame to become so centralized to the point where the only decks are "THE cookie cutter deck" and "the anti-cookie cutter deck". Likewise, this line of thinking falls to cards as well. D.D. Crow was commonly used tech against Monarch decks with Treeborn Frog. However the line of thinking was horrendous. You absolutely HAD to run Crow in order to stop Frog.

 

... tl;dr: Just 'cause a card can be stopped doesn't mean it's any less bannable.

 

Firstly, I'm surprised it took someone that long to respond to my post.

 

Secondly, I think this format is one of the most diverse formats this game has has in forever. I haven't played competitively this format a lot however.

 

Infernities are very hyped right now, but a lot of things that should be side decked this format hurt Infernities right now.

 

D.D. Crow, Kycoo, Shadow Imprisioning Mirror, Royal Oppression, Skill Drain, etc.

 

Even though the argument "Just 'cause a card can be stopped doesn't mean it's any less bannable" is a good one. It doesn't really apply right here.

 

Infernities lie on the fact that it needs to top deck, so if you can stop their one push, and have an answer for it, then you pretty much win. With such cards like Battle Fader, Gorz and Trago, as well as Threatening Roar and Waboku, it isn't hard to play cards that will stop the OTK. This is not mentioning cards like Royal Oppression that is one of the best cards this format, and can be put into almost every deck.

 

Along with the 3 Hand to field monsters(Fader, Gorz, Trago), many decks can play Caius, as this is seen in Blackwings, QD, Monarchs, and Flamvell Synchro. Caius(and Raiza, turn the tables against the Swarm, as it removes threats from the field.

 

Ryko is also another card that is commonly seen, and hurts the big push a lot. Hitting anything and milling is really great, and starts the combos off for your deck.

 

In conclusion, if you play against infernities, and you don't have any answers to them dropping synchros, then you kinda deserve to lose. They need graveyard set up, no cards in hand, and the ability for you Not to run commonly played cards.

 

That's how I see it.

[.Leo]

I'm not familiar with the OTK' date=' so please forgive me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't banning Necromancer solve the problem just as easily?

[/quote']

 

Not really. It's good, but Not as useful as Mirage and Launcher.

[Flame Dragon]

On papaer this works as a limit card, but either this and Mirage or Archfiend alone needs to get banned. For some time I was going for the Archfiend route, but now that I think about it, banning Mirage and this is the better move.

[JadenxAtemYAOI]

Not THAT bad. It's better than dimension fusion when having 5 super-powerful monsters in the Remove From Play zone. All the infernities could be used for are synchro, tribute fodder, and ritual summons.

[byak]

Archfiend should be errata'd so it only searches monsters. :\

[Kailyn Leona Kyosuke]

Long story short Infernity Gun (Launcher) is more than likely going to be limited, but not banned. As amazing as it is, without at least 1 Demon (Archfiend), Necromancer, and Infernity Tuner in the grave, this card isn't as powerful as it can be. Some cards can help the speed up but this card alone can only dump one per turn, which if played right, it's only gonna be there one turn.

[byak]

Long story short Infernity Gun (Launcher) is more than likely going to be limited' date=' but not banned. As amazing as it is, without at least 1 Demon (Archfiend), Necromancer, and Infernity Tuner in the grave, this card isn't as powerful as it can be. Some cards can help the speed up but this card alone can only dump one per turn, which if played right, it's only gonna be there one turn.

[/quote']

 

Inferno, Gepher, One for One, Hand Dest., Card Dest., Foolish, itself, etc.

That's quite a few examples there, with Inferno being the best.

[BehindTheMask]

Not THAT bad. It's better than dimension fusion when having 5 super-powerful monsters in the Remove From Play zone. All the infernities could be used for are synchro' date=' tribute fodder, and ritual summons.

[/quote']

 

Better as in more fair? Or better as in better card?

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Archfiend should be errata'd so it only searches monsters. :\

 

Yeah, that would be the smartest thing probably.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

Archfiend should be errata'd so it only searches monsters. :\

 

Yeah' date=' that would be the smartest thing probably.

[/quote']

 

That would make life alot easier.

 

Then i could run Stygian Security to search Mirage :P *gets shot*

[Mister Sir]

Ban Archfiend first.

 

He's basically the key to the whole OTK, iirc.

[evilfusion]

Archfiend is also one of the key cards to Infernity decks. But I suppose that's becoming suspiciously similar to "JD shouldn't be banned because it's Lightsworn's key card".

 

Two scenarios, I see:

 

1) Infernity Launcher is banned, everything else is the same. Special Summon Archfiend, add Mirage, Special Summon 2 monsters. Synchro. Combo more or less ends there. Explosive play, but not broken.

 

2) Infernity Launcher is left alone. Infernity Archfiend is gone. Multiple Launchers can still be abused, just not searched, and massive swarms can be accumulated by reviving Necromancer and a Tuner. However, this only applies in the case of multiple copies.

 

In both cases, Infernity is slowed, but not completely crippled. There is a basis to the belief that Archfiend is the problem, but the most dangerous card Archfiend searches is Launcher. I may be biased in Archfiend's favor, though. It's so rare to find a genuinely good theme searcher, and Archfiend wasn't a problem until Launcher came out.

 

Errata'ing Archfiend would remedy most of the problem (apparently it could only search monsters in the anime, but Mirage was also the good reviver, not Launcher). And Archfiend is more powerful thanks to Infernity Barrier, too. This supports my belief that Launcher and Archfiend are due for limitations.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

semi launcher

limit archfiend

 

or the other way round. simply because i want to use infernities still.

 

Would Barrier get affected at all?

[DARKPLANT RISING]

Not banworthy' date=' probably gonna be limited...

[/quote']

 

Lolz.

The easy thing is, ban both this and Archfiend. They both suck. In a bad way.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

they wouldnt.

if they didnt ban brain control the last couple of formats. both will prob stay at 3.

or both get semi'd.

[evilfusion]

Semi-limiting Launcher would be stupid. This IS a card bad in multiples. Archfiend you only need 1 of to get the combo started, and if you have multiple Launchers, you can spam the combo, just one less use of it, in which case you'll probably use Mirage instead.

 

I can easily see Archfiend semi'd and Launcher limited, if not outright banned. But with my comment that you only need one Archfiend to spam the combo, I'm not sure if he'll get off easy or not.

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Limiting Infernity Archfiend would solve the problem. Infernity Launcher is good but it's certainly not broke.

[GenzoTheHarpist]

Limiting Infernity Archfiend would solve the problem. Infernity Launcher is good but it's certainly not broke.

 

How would that even remotely come close to solving the problem... you only need one of those to OTK.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

In conclusion' date=' if you play against infernities, and you don't have any answers to them dropping synchros, then you kinda deserve to lose.[/quote']

 

Ehh... I'm not feelin' it. No one "deserves" to lose any more then anyone "deserves" to win. And even if that is the case, you don't deserve to lose by SUCH a huge percent, to scores of level 8 synchros, just because you couldn't draw Crow in time.

 

They need graveyard set up' date='[/quote']

 

Not a difficult task with all the cards available. Foolish Burial, Dark Grepher, Armageddon Knight, and whatever specific Infernity support I don't know about.

 

no cards in hand' date='[/quote']

 

Again, not difficult, a bunch of it combines with the above too. Hand Destruction, Card Destruction, and just plain setting all the S/Ts in your hand works just fine.

 

and the ability for you Not to run commonly played cards.

 

That's the one I take the most issue with. The default answer to a bannable card being out on the market shouldn't be "lol, play this instead". It's up to the card designers and banlist makers to make sure bannable cards aren't allowed. I mean, the cards you suggested earlier also stop BLS-Envoy, CED-Envoy, DAD and JD. Is that you're response to honest complaints about them as well?

[Psycho Shocker Android]

Limiting Infernity Archfiend would solve the problem. Infernity Launcher is good but it's certainly not broke.

 

How would that even remotely come close to solving the problem... you only need one of those to OTK.

 

It's kind of like how limiting bestiari made GB counterable enough for them to not screw up the meta. With one archfiend sure you can still set up an otk but then if your archfiend gets removed you auto lose. It then becomes incredibly risky to run infernity in tournament, up to a point where it isn't a viable option anymore.

[Guest PikaPerson01]

It's kind of like how limiting bestiari made GB counterable enough for them to not screw up the meta.

 

That's not what happened. More broken cards came into the meta. Namely Synchros.