Heavy Storm can go to 0.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

I'm not trolling. I told you to stop being bad, because you are. I guess that's flaming, but if you can't suck it up, then why be on the Internet in the first place.

 

 

Show me Proves....

1 Statement is not enough to asure how good of a player I'm....

 

and No I told you that becuase we were spamming....

 

But whatever....

 

To make this post valid let's say.

 

Until we can't resolve the problem of overextension Heavy will still have a place in the game...If something more balanced can be done...well ok...

 

Now if you think about it we have a plethora of cards that solve the S/T destruction problem...

The thing is nothing we have able is enough to move HS from its place in the game's equilibrium.

 

IMO...If one BALANCED VERSION of this card could be made...

 

Something like a multi target Double Cyclone might work?

[Family Friendly]

I've always thought something akin to Lightning Vortex would work. Maybe two versions, one for face-up, and one for face-down. My argument is this: we have Lightning Vortex, and monsters more often than not require more time and effort to execute their summons (we'll exclude such archetypes as X-Sabers and Infernities for the duration of this explanation). Why is it that we have such expendable monster destruction running rampant, while the destruction of Spell and Trap Cards is held in high glory? It doesn't take a lot of work to set a Spell or Trap Card, but with all the destruction around, it's hard to keep a monster on the field.

 

I realize that Heavy Storm can't stick around; it's broken from its core. A card that can range anywhere from a -4 to a +4 shouldn't be in the game. But two Spell or Trap Cards that require at least two Spell or Traps committed to the opponent's field before they can even be a +0 is certainly not broken. However, it promotes ridding overextension, and waiting for the right time to strike.

 

Also, Malevolent Catastrophe was good in its own right before Starlight Road came along; it could wreck a lot of backrow-heavy decks with ease.

[DARKPLANT RISING]

lolquoteflamewar

 

1st Topic: Terriblenext.

 

2nd Topic: Manjyoume owned a topic. Again.

[Just Crouton]

This?

 

Heavy Storm

Spell

Discard your hand. Destroy Spell and Traps on the field equal to the number of cards you discarded.

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Heavy Storm, unpopular opinion: I find it good as it is.

[burnpsy]

"Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. After this, your turn ends."

 

Done.

[Sleepy]

Oh I have an awesome idea:

 

Normal Spell:

You can only activate this card by removing from play all cards in your hand, your side of the field and your Graveyard and paying half of your Life Points. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. Then, your turn ends. If you activate this effect. You must skip your next turn and your next Draw Phase after that. Your opponent can Special Summon up to 1 monster from either player's hand, Deck, Graveyard or removed from play, equal to the number of Spell and Trap Cards destroyed by this card's effect, ignoring the Summoning Conditions. Also, double your opponent's Life Points.[/sarcasm]

[burnpsy]

Oh I have an awesome idea:

 

Normal Spell:

You can only activate this card by removing from play all cards in your hand, your side of the field and your Graveyard and paying half of your Life Points. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. Then, your turn ends. If you activate this effect. You must skip your next turn and your next Draw Phase after that. Your opponent can Special Summon up to 1 monster from their hand, Deck, Graveyard or removed from play, equal to the number of Spell and Trap Cards destroyed by this card's effect. Also, double your opponent's Life Points.[/sarcasm]

 

IMO, ending their turn is balance enough. You can't proceed to win that turn in that case, and you're really leaving yourself open more.

 

Other ideas:

 

One-sided Cold Wave on yourself in exchange for the effect.

The player who used the card can only Normal Summon and activate that card until their next turn, nothing else.

[Sleepy]

I know (you know, there's a "sarcasm" quote at the end of my comment.....)

[burnpsy]

I know (you know, there's a "sarcasm" quote at the end of my comment.....)

 

I missed it when posting, though I realized it was a joke.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Heavy with a discard increased the number of cards that your opponent can set and still be safe to 2.

 

IMO the best replacement for Heavy should have one of those effects:

 

1. Normal Spell

Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. You cannot Special Summon during the turn you activate this card.

 

2. Normal Spell

Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. You cannot attack during the turn you activate this card.

 

3. Normal Spell

Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. You cannot Special Summon nor attack during the turn you activate this card.

 

I like number 1 the most.

 

Keep in mind that the OTKs Heavy Storm helps would not exist in a good format either. A lack of Special Summon I don't think would be enough to balance Heavy Storm since a lack of Special Summon wouldn't be too much of a hinderance in a slower and better format. Personally number 2 isn't too bad. Number 3 is not really needed.

 

This?

 

Heavy Storm

 

Spell

Discard your hand. Destroy Spell and Traps on the field equal to the number of cards you discarded.

 

No. Seems too much of a hinderance to the player using it. We're trying to balance or make a balanced alternative to Heavy Storm instead of making it a bad replacement to it.

 

How about this since we're trying to balance Heavy Storm.

 

Normal Spell

Discard 1 card. Select and activate one of the following effects:

- Destroy all face up Spell and Trap Cards on the field.

- Destroy all face down Spell and Trap Cards on the field.

 

IDK? Seems a bit like a Lightning Vortex for Spells and Traps but with more options with what you can do. If there was no discard cost, this would probably be banworthy like Lightning Vortex would and a discard to destroy all Spells and Trap regardless of whether they're face up or face down wouldn't be enough of a cost to balance it.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Keep in mind that the OTKs Heavy Storm helps would not exist in a good format either. A lack of Special Summon I don't think would be enough to balance Heavy Storm since a lack of Special Summon wouldn't be too much of a hinderance in a slower and better format. Personally number 2 isn't too bad. Number 3 is not really needed.

 

If OTKs did not exist, Heavy would not need balancing.

 

Anyway, making a version that is a -1 is terrible.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Keep in mind that the OTKs Heavy Storm helps would not exist in a good format either. A lack of Special Summon I don't think would be enough to balance Heavy Storm since a lack of Special Summon wouldn't be too much of a hinderance in a slower and better format. Personally number 2 isn't too bad. Number 3 is not really needed.

 

If OTKs did not exist, Heavy would not need balancing.

 

Heavy Storm is still banworthy even without OTKs. It is costless, splashable mass S/T removal. It's really just stall and reckless S/T overextension that seems to be saving Heavy Storm from the banhammer.

 

Anyway, making a version that is a -1 is terrible.

 

Not really. Keep in mind we're trying to balance the damn thing or make a balanced alternative. A Life Point cost unless really, really steep won't balance it. It'll either still be banworthy or be terrible and/or unplayable because of the cost. At least with a discard, it would sort of make it akin to Lightning Vortex which is a -1 only if you only destroy 1 monster and even then, it has to be face-up. With the version I suggested, you have to discard a card to use it and you can either destroy all face-up Spells and Traps or all face-down Spells and Traps. Not both. It would only be a -1 if you use it like MST or destroy 2 S/Ts as well as one of yours. Anyway, I think this would deal with Stall adequately enough by destroying all face-up Spells and Traps (I guess in most cases) and it punishes reckless S/T overextension if you choose to destroy face-downs (in most cases).

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Because also destroying your cards is not a drawback.

 

I don't know why you people obssess that much with Heavy Storm. Stalling and S/T overextension will always exist, and there has to be a way of dealing with that. Especially overextension, since it is, in fact, bad playing.

 

If a replacement of Heavy Storm was to be made, it would also be at 1. Just for the sake of making Continuous/Field Spells non-chainable Traps still playable. There will never be a replacement for Storm at nothing else than 1, and there is no need to make a balanced version of it that does not do its original work. Heavy should NEVER be like Vortex, just for the fact that spells and traps can inmediatly be played, while monsters can not (even more that way if were are talking about a "good format"). Any Heavy replacement should have a cost or drawback, yet still destroy everything, not matter if face-up or face-down.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Because also destroying your cards is not a drawback.

 

Yes it is a draw back. Just how much of a drawback depends on how you're playing.

 

I don't know why you people obssess that much with Heavy Storm. Stalling and S/T overextension will always exist, and there has to be a way of dealing with that. Especially overextension, since it is, in fact, bad playing.

 

The only solution I can think of for stalling and Heavy Storm's banworthiness without needing to replace Heavy Storm would be to kill stall and Heavy Storm. Now we have overextension to deal with.

 

If a replacement of Heavy Storm was to be made, it would also be at 1. Just for the sake of making Continuous/Field Spells non-chainable Traps still playable. There will never be a replacement for Storm at nothing else than 1, and there is no need to make a balanced version of it that does not do its original work. Heavy should NEVER be like Vortex, just for the fact that spells and traps can inmediatly be played, while monsters can not (even more that way if were are talking about a "good format"). Any Heavy replacement should have a cost or drawback, yet still destroy everything, not matter if face-up or face-down.

 

Just what would that cost need to be then?

[TechnoDoomedOne]

HEAVY STORM:

Activate only when there are 3 or more Spell or Trap Cards on the field. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. You cannot declare a direct attack during this turn.

 

A quick try. Could still be better.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

HEAVY STORM:

Activate only when there are 3 or more Spell or Trap Cards on the field. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field. You cannot declare a direct attack during this turn.

 

A quick try. Could still be better.

 

Do you really think the last part is necessary?

[TechnoDoomedOne]

Not in a good format.

 

In this one it would stop OTKs (if ever used).

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Not in a good format.

 

In this one it would stop OTKs (if ever used).

 

Yeah especially when said OTKs should be banned anyway.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

Heavy Storm 2:

 

Remove from play 1 card from your hand. Destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field.

[TechnoDoomedOne]

In fact, costs can be worked around, and there are decks that can even benefit from them.

(for example Lightning Vortex in Zombie decks; helping you fill the graveyard with the discarded card)

 

Conditions are harder to work around.

[BDKMRV]

And then you play Trap Stun HAHAH