lol. People wants America to NOT have Religous freedoms.

[Dark]

the KKK, makes a terrorist attack. (Not they really do that anymore, just an example.) A few years later, someone decides to build a Christian church right next to the site. Would that be ok?

 

From what I recall, the KKK was a white-supremacist group. Since, y'know, they killed Christian black people. <___<

 

But, going on your example, do they legally own the land? If so, there is nothing illegal about building a church there, since there are churches pretty much everywhere. The entire basis of this anti-mosque argument is that people think it would rub salt in people's wounds. Okay, well every Christian person I have met has called me a slimy, greedy, atheist bastard. So, I want every church within a fifty mile radius of my house gone, because all of those are rubbing salt in my wounds. Won't do it? So why don't you let them build their mosque close to the 9/11 site? Even if it was absolutely proven that Muslim terrorists, under their own will, bombed the Twin Towers, that does not mean every Muslim is an American-hating terrorist. They want to build a mosque, it's legal, and there should be no problems.

[Dark]

The lag made me double-post!

 

 

[Dark]

The lag made me triple-post!

 

 

[Tentacruel]

From what I recall, the KKK was a white-supremacist group. Since, y'know, they killed Christian black people. <___<

 

My examples always suck. :(

 

But, going on your example, do they legally own the land? If so, there is nothing illegal about building a church there, since there are churches pretty much everywhere. The entire basis of this anti-mosque argument is that people think it would rub salt in people's wounds.

 

I think "claim" would be a better word than "think" for this situation.

 

Okay, well every Christian person I have met has called me a slimy, greedy, atheist bastard.

 

Umm... wow... That's rather disturbing to here, yet quite easy to believe, unfortunately.

 

So, I want every church within a fifty mile radius of my house gone, because all of those are rubbing salt in my wounds. Won't do it? So why don't you let them build their mosque close to the 9/11 site? Even if it was absolutely proven that Muslim terrorists, under their own will, bombed the Twin Towers, that does not mean every Muslim is an American-hating terrorist. They want to build a mosque, it's legal, and there should be no problems.

 

Exactly. Although, even though there should be no problems, there will always be problems, as long as this country supports freedom of thought. (Which is a small price to pay for said freedom.)

[Dark]

Freedom of thought is fine, but now they are obstructing the legality of building a mosque "near Ground Zero".

 

People need to learn that if something is legal, bawwing about it and acting like a moron won't make it become illegal. If the government actually favors the Christians on this debate, I will hang myself, no questions. I refuse to believe humanity could be that stupid, even considering Christians mainly hold this viewpoint.

[Tentacruel]

Freedom of thought is fine, but now they are obstructing the legality of building a mosque "near Ground Zero".

 

People need to learn that if something is legal, bawwing about it and acting like a moron won't make it become illegal. If the government actually favors the Christians on this debate, I will hang myself, no questions. I refuse to believe humanity could be that stupid, even considering Christians mainly hold this viewpoint.

 

No no no, not what I meant. I mean that with freedom of thought, you have to accept freedom to be an idiot. There will always be someone ranting about it. But that doesn't mean the mosque cannot be built.

[Nexev]

Somewhat off topic; Why the hell haven't they rebuilt over the Trade Center again? I mean, it was a tragedy yeah, but get over it. Build it up again. Or build something new, I dunno, just don't leave it as a giant hole in the ground.

 

In any case, there are a lot of muslims in New York. In particular, there are a lot of muslims in that part of New York. In fact, there's a functioning Mosque near Ground Zero ANYWAY. To those who say, 'build it elsewhere'; it isn't needed elsewhere. Obviously, the muslim community is large enough in the area that it would benefit from a second mosque around that location.

 

Trying to veto the building strikes me as incredibly bigoted. The muslim community couldn't have prevented the 9/11 attacks, any more than the christian community could have prevented the crusades, or the innumerable other atrocities caused by christian extremists. They have a legal right to build where they want; taking away that right would be in violation of their constitution.

Technically the christian community were the people who started the crusades.

 

But I digress.

 

The only reason I can think of why they shouldn't have a mosque is that they won't put a temple in Mecca.

 

It's pretty unrelated but if they won't let someone practice there faith in a place they hold sacred, then why should New York?

 

Ground Zero is kinda holy ground in terms of nationality symbolism. Like the statue of liberty.

 

But this doesn't mean anything really, I just want a synagogue in mecca.

 

Allot of people don't want ANYTHING in GZ. The mosque is just especially ironic.

 

People just don't appreciate God's humor. Or just don't like irony. >.>

 

I thought it was annoying when I thought they were building a church on there, it seemed arrogant.

 

But it's not a church, so that issue is pointless. Especially since it's not at Ground Zero really.

 

But yeah, let them have the stupid mosque, no one will dare enter it anyway. To many people will picket out there.

 

Which actually makes an arguement.

 

People are dumb, they will do whatever they can to make anyone who goes to that mosque endure hell, pickets, stupid chants, it's an apartheid all over again.

 

Thus if they don't build there, they can use the money to build a different mosque that will be more usen and less stupidity infested.

[Dark]

No no no, not what I meant. I mean that with freedom of thought, you have to accept freedom to be an idiot. There will always be someone ranting about it. But that doesn't mean the mosque cannot be built.

 

This is going beyond the simple "freedom of thought" and "freedom to be an idiot". The fact that there is actually a debate on this (and the fact that the Muslim people haven't gotten a green light to build the mosque yet) means that these idiots are obviously going past their right to thought and obstructing the legality of this mosque.

[Dr. Cakey]

Technically the christian community were the people who started the crusades.

 

But I digress.

 

The only reason I can think of why they shouldn't have a mosque is that they won't put a temple in Mecca.

 

It's pretty unrelated but if they won't let someone practice there faith in a place they hold sacred, then why should New York?

 

Ground Zero is kinda holy ground in terms of nationality symbolism. Like the statue of liberty.

 

But this doesn't mean anything really, I just want a synagogue in mecca.

 

Allot of people don't want ANYTHING in GZ. The mosque is just especially ironic.

 

People just don't appreciate God's humor. Or just don't like irony. >.>

 

I thought it was annoying when I thought they were building a church on there, it seemed arrogant.

 

But it's not a church, so that issue is pointless. Especially since it's not at Ground Zero really.

 

But yeah, let them have the stupid mosque, no one will dare enter it anyway. To many people will picket out there.

 

Which actually makes an arguement.

 

People are dumb, they will do whatever they can to make anyone who goes to that mosque endure hell, pickets, stupid chants, it's an apartheid all over again.

 

Thus if they don't build there, they can use the money to build a different mosque that will be more usen and less stupidity infested.

The difference is, it would be illegal not to allow them to build it the mosque. Religious tolerance is not, so far as I know, a legal mandate in most of the Middle East.

[Hydra of Ages]

Technically the christian community were the people who started the crusades.

 

But I digress.

 

The only reason I can think of why they shouldn't have a mosque is that they won't put a temple in Mecca.

 

It's pretty unrelated but if they won't let someone practice there faith in a place they hold sacred, then why should New York?

 

Because you're American. And your constitution says you have to treat all religions equally.

 

Mecca is -NOT- in America, and does not hold the same values. The question here is why you want want to hold America to the same civil rights standards as Saudi Arabia.

 

Also, one last little thing- NEW YORK HAS NO RELIGIOUS SIGNIFICANCE. Comparing it to Mecca is completely inane.

 

 

 

Ground Zero is kinda holy ground in terms of nationality symbolism. Like the statue of liberty.

 

 

Ground Zero, yes, I can somewhat see what you're coming from. Two blocks away? Hell no, that's a chunk of downtown New York. Downtown New York is not a national symbol; if it was, every second shop wouldn't be a starbucks.

 

Besides, what about a Mosque is opposed to being a nation symbol? Muslims are Americans too. Mecca is a religious symbol to Muslims and it's somewhat difficult to be simultaneously a Jew and Muslim, so it makes sense for there not to be a synagogue there. On the other hand, there are hundreds of thousands of Muslims that are already American citizens; it would make sense for them to both respect a national symbol, and still be part of their religion.

 

 

 

But this doesn't mean anything really, I just want a synagogue in mecca.

 

 

Why? Do you also want a Mosque in Vatican City?

 

 

Allot of people don't want ANYTHING in GZ. The mosque is just especially ironic.

 

 

Who?! If you recall, Ground Zero is surrounded by, ya know, NEW YORK CITY. It's not exactly in the middle of nowhere, this is a significant part of one of America's most populated and famous cities. You do realize that buildings existed there long before 9/11, and continue to exist there? If you wanted absolutely nothing in Ground Zero, you would have to bulldoze an entire district of the city.

[CrabHelmet]

Technically the christian community were the people who started the crusades.

 

But I digress.

 

The only reason I can think of why they shouldn't have a mosque is that they won't put a temple in Mecca.

 

It's pretty unrelated but if they won't let someone practice there faith in a place they hold sacred, then why should New York?

 

Ground Zero is kinda holy ground in terms of nationality symbolism. Like the statue of liberty.

 

But this doesn't mean anything really, I just want a synagogue in mecca.

 

Allot of people don't want ANYTHING in GZ. The mosque is just especially ironic.

 

People just don't appreciate God's humor. Or just don't like irony. >.>

 

I thought it was annoying when I thought they were building a church on there, it seemed arrogant.

 

But it's not a church, so that issue is pointless. Especially since it's not at Ground Zero really.

 

But yeah, let them have the stupid mosque, no one will dare enter it anyway. To many people will picket out there.

 

Which actually makes an arguement.

 

People are dumb, they will do whatever they can to make anyone who goes to that mosque endure hell, pickets, stupid chants, it's an apartheid all over again.

 

Thus if they don't build there, they can use the money to build a different mosque that will be more usen and less stupidity infested.

In other words, the Muslims should accept that they're second-class citizens and scurry away from doing what they are legally permitted to do on property they own on the grounds that... people might picket?

 

How stupid are you?

[Tentacruel]

This is going beyond the simple "freedom of thought" and "freedom to be an idiot". The fact that there is actually a debate on this (and the fact that the Muslim people haven't gotten a green light to build the mosque yet) means that these idiots are obviously going past their right to thought and obstructing the legality of this mosque.

 

 

Woah, I assumed they were already allowed to. Can you say fail legal system?

[Darkest Hour]

Idiots will be angry and chant against whatever their small brains can comprehend as wrong. We can't kill them, nor the muslims, and it seems like this problem is oddly difficult to solve. I would just let them build their mosque, because it's a wasted investment on their part seeing how these angry little people will most likely vandalize or attack it.

[Dark]

Woah, I assumed they were already allowed to. Can you say fail legal system?

 

Nope, from my knowledge on the situation, they haven't gotten a permit to actually build the mosque.

 

But they own the land, so I don't know why they need a permit. I don't know how property works in America, tbqh.

[Tentacruel]

Nope, from my knowledge on the situation, they haven't gotten a permit to actually build the mosque.

 

But they own the land, so I don't know why they need a permit. I don't know how property works in America, tbqh.

 

Well... from my knowledge, you need a permit to do anything construction related, regardless of whether or not you own the land. The system is awful, and hopefully it won't be exploited in this situation to prevent the building of the mosque.

[Nexev]

In other words, the Muslims should accept that they're second-class citizens and scurry away from doing what they are legally permitted to do on property they own on the grounds that... people might picket?

 

How stupid are you?

No, sorry if I was unclear.

 

While Muslims are nice and all, someone is going to b**** and make that place a hell.

 

It's not that they don't deserve the mosque, it's that the mosque building might simply not be worth it.

 

Your allowed to post in fanfiction even if you are not that good (this isn't actually targetting anyone), and even if you know people will insult your thread you'll still post it because constructive criticism is the whole point of a fanfiction thread.

 

Then there are people who just don't want to deal with that and just not post the fanfic.

 

 

It's similar here with a few differences.

1. This mosque doesn't suck

2. The people trolling this mosque are just a******s and not trying to give constructive critism.

3. The mosque is to enrich life and is not a hobby.

4. Mosques don't suck, bad fanfics do

5. [insert whatever I forget here]

 

I see the point about the 2 block thing, but my argument relied on the fact that logic be damned, some one will toss some s*** into a fan.

 

While the argument against the mosque is stupid, people are stupid too. If they have a dumb reason for making your life hell, well, they will still do it. People are jerks, it's humanities specialty. Whether or not they even have a argument is irrelevant to my argument because my argument revolved around the fact that people will retaliate to this harmless act in a manner that will be overtly harsh.

 

I'm not saying they shouldn't make it, I'm all for it. I'm just saying maybe making a mosque somewhere else in New York will be better. I thought someone issued a challenge about why they shouldn't build the mosque.

 

I must have misread.

 

In short, while the Mosque has it's rights to existence, maybe Muslims might just want to go with the tide this one time to avoid the backlash. Props to them if they stick with it however.

 

And I am probbaly not an idiot, just really bad at clearly conveying my opinions.

 

Or I could be just a complete retard, there is no way for me to know. Or if I was a retard and did know it I may be in denial.

 

But I am pretty sure you didn't really want an answer.

 

So the fact that I ansewered anyway does indicate the fact that I may be dumb.

 

BUT my abillity to overanalyze this may mean I am smart.

 

BUT my refusal to end this pointless arguement with myself may *head explodes*

 

And the fact that I blew up my own head by overthinking this implies I am also a retard who can't handle normal thought.

 

I feel better now.

 

@Hydra: Bizarrely yes, I think a mosque in Vatican will be great.

 

It would a great symbol of religous tolerance.

 

I'd also find it funny for some reason.

[Dark]

So simply because the majority of people do not want the mosque to be built, the Muslims should succumb to the status quo? Is that what you are saying?

 

So the Muslim people should give up their legal right to build a mosque on land they own because of illegal threats (arson, and the likes) from whining idiots?

 

That's retarded.

 

Futhermore, even if it was explicitly stated that the entire purpose of this mosque was to rub 9/11 in America's face, how does that challenge the legality of the mosque in the big picture? If they want to build a mosque just to mock America (assuming they weren't the terrorists themselves), don't they have the freedom of speech to do so?

 

Also, since it's pretty clear that the mosque isn't being built for this purpose, doesn't that mean the status quo is stereotyping every single Muslim as an American-hating suicide-bombing terrorist?

[Icy]

Similarly, there's nothing wrong with slavery other than that it's unpopular.

 

Slavery etc has all caused Physical and Psychological Problems. Wrong context Crabs.

[CrabHelmet]

Slavery etc has all caused Physical and Psychological Problems. Wrong context Crabs.

So has religious oppression. But slavery doesn't have a majority vote and religious oppression apparently does.

[Nexev]

So simply because the majority of people do not want the mosque to be built, the Muslims should succumb to the status quo? Is that what you are saying?

 

So the Muslim people should give up their legal right to build a mosque on land they own because of illegal threats (arson, and the likes) from whining idiots?

 

That's retarded.

 

Futhermore, even if it was explicitly stated that the entire purpose of this mosque was to rub 9/11 in America's face, how does that challenge the legality of the mosque in the big picture? If they want to build a mosque just to mock America (assuming they weren't the terrorists themselves), don't they have the freedom of speech to do so?

 

Also, since it's pretty clear that the mosque isn't being built for this purpose, doesn't that mean the status quo is stereotyping every single Muslim as an American-hating suicide-bombing terrorist?

What? No.

Look, obviously I'm just saying this wrong.

 

What I am trying to convey is this. MAybe it is better for them to cave this one time, as it probbaly isn't worth it at this point.

 

Not that they should have had to rely on this, but riots have been caused by more retarded reasons, things have also been sent death threats for more retarded reasons.

 

Hard to believe there is a more retarded reason but yeah, America is full of surprises.

 

While I am all for the mosque, (as I have been saying before) I really don't want to see people overblow this issue even more if the muslims win and cause anti-islam to spread even more than it already is.

 

I am fully aware that they CAN build the mosque, I'm just not sure if building it is worth it anymore.

 

Of course now, they ironically HAVE to build this because otherwise it will be shown they can be pushed around, which leads to allot of bad things in the future.

[Dark]

Wow, I don't think you get your own point.

 

So the Muslim people should give up their legal right to build a mosque on land they own because of illegal threats (arson, and the likes) from whining idiots?

 

Are you saying that the previous sentence does not summarize your view? You did say... MAybe it is better for them to cave, and I'm just not sure if building it is worth it anymore..

 

 

[CrabHelmet]

Nevert, do you know what literally happens when innocent people give in to illegal threats? The terrorists win.

 

Here, the terrorists happen to be white American Christian conservatives.

[Icy]

So has religious oppression. But slavery doesn't have a majority vote and religious oppression apparently does.

 

I wouldn't say it's oppressing, more like respecting the extreme paranoia. Move it outside of the "Ground Zero" and build 10 of them on the border of it to cage everyone else in D<...

[Nexev]

Wow, I don't think you get your own point.

 

So the Muslim people should give up their legal right to build a mosque on land they own because of illegal threats (arson, and the likes) from whining idiots?

 

Are you saying that the previous sentence does not summarize your view? You did say... MAybe it is better for them to cave, and I'm just not sure if building it is worth it anymore..

No, that's about it.

 

See, maybe I'm dramatizing, but all I can think of is lynch mobs and other silly mass murder stuff from the past.

 

And I do not want Muslims to have to deal with some KKK ripoff.

 

Though I am probbaly imagining the threats held by the protesters to be bigger than I imagined, if so then yeah, they can happily build there Mosque.

 

Anyway I said maybe, I know it isn't necessarily true and all though.

 

@Crab: Read the last line in my post, I was already aware of that.

 

As such my argument has been rendered redundant though. >.>

 

Oh course I was merely musing anyway.

[CrabHelmet]

I wouldn't say it's oppressing, more like respecting the extreme paranoia.

I wouldn't say slavery oppresses anyone; it just respects extreme bigotry.

 

Isn't this game fun?