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Sinister Serpent and discard costs

Great Unclean One: VK

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Great Unclean One: VK Newbie

Great Unclean One: VK

Posted
Posted
[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282609764' post='4558888']
I wish they would [b]get rid of treeborn and give us back sinister.[/b]

[/quote]


[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080919195740/yugioh/images/0/05/SinisterSerpentSDD-EN-ScR-UE.jpg[/img]

Discuss this overpowered piece of s*** and how discard costs is a balancing mechanic.
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Great Unclean One: VK Newbie

Great Unclean One: VK

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Thus the start of the Final Countdown Meta.

Seriously, this card is WAY overpowered.

This can easily fill the need for any discard.

You haz Skyfire?

Use this guy.

You haz a uberstrong monster that requires a discard to keep on the field or somthing?

Use this guy.

You gonna use Lightning Vortex since you don't have Dark Hole but you have a Ace card that you need?

Use this guy.
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Mr. Judgment Dragon Apprentice

Mr. Judgment Dragon

Posted
Posted
[quote name='General VK-Duelist/Shepard' timestamp='1282615685' post='4559239']
*has flashbacks to Pojo*

NEVER GODDAM AGAIN.

THEY SAY LIGHTNING VORTEX IS BROKEN, BUT YET TIV SHOULD BE UNLIMITED?

IMA KILL THEM ALL!
[/quote]

Tell me about it. They think a walking Raigeki with 2800 ATK isn't broken yet they think Gale and Caius are overpowered. Pojo is just a troll land now.

On topic: Infinite discard fodder. This is banned for a reason and rightfully so. Cards with discard costs have them for a reason.
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poopybuttoxes Newbie

poopybuttoxes

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Posted
Im seeing alot of examples that dont exist anymore because their banned. Such as painful and tribe. You guys are overrating this card alot. Its a good card and it always keeps one card in your hand, but its a crap card. It has no purpose but to be a discarded card and a last resort defense.

Nowadays none of you use many traps so treeborn is easy summon for monarch or anything else, and thats extremely broken IMO, and now we can have three (or so i've heard)? Rediculous.
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Canadian Newbie

Canadian

Posted
Posted
[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282619628' post='4559387']
Im seeing alot of examples that dont exist anymore because their banned. Such as painful and tribe. You guys are overrating this card alot. Its a good card and it always keeps one card in your hand, but its a crap card. It has no purpose but to be a discarded card and a last resort defense.

Nowadays none of you use many traps so treeborn is easy summon for monarch or anything else, and thats extremely broken IMO, and now we can have three (or so i've heard)? Rediculous.
[/quote]

[img]http://captionsearch.com/pix/t1gb4klq3.jpg[/img]
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poopybuttoxes Newbie

poopybuttoxes

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Posted
Discarding cards isnt really that crucial in the game. Its not a big enough problem to ban it. If it wasnt banned, yes it would be pretty much staple in like half of every deck, and yes its a +1 everytime you lose it, but you gotta understand the point of even caring about +1. +1 is for advantage. Everycard in your hand gives you more advantage over your opponent, but this card is almost useless for anything else besides discard bait.

It was a nice card a long time ago, but was misused with alot of cards that are banned right now. I think they could bring it back now. It doesnt -1 the opponent and it never really will. Do you honestly think that sinister is more useful than treeborn?
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Mr. Judgment Dragon Apprentice

Mr. Judgment Dragon

Posted
Posted
[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282619628' post='4559387']
Im seeing alot of examples that dont exist anymore because their banned. Such as painful and tribe. You guys are overrating this card alot. Its a good card and it always keeps one card in your hand, but its a crap card. It has no purpose but to be a discarded card and a last resort defense.
[/quote]

A card can be both terrible and banworthy at the same time. Look at Victory Dragon. Also, Lightning Vortex, Raigeki Break, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, Lightsworns, Dark World Dealings and even Hand Destruction also say hi. Lightning Vortex would be banworthy if it lacked the discard cost since you could just play it as if it were a slightly weaker Raigeki. Raigeki Break and Phoenix Wing Wind Blast become better, Lightsworns can easily get it into their Graveyard and Lumina can use it to pay for her discard cost, Dark World Dealings becomes borderline banworthy and Hand Destruction is no longer a -1 although it relies on your opponent being able to maintain a decent sized hand.

[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282619628' post='4559387']
Nowadays none of you use many traps so treeborn is easy summon for monarch or anything else, and thats extremely broken IMO, and now we can have three (or so i've heard)? Rediculous.
[/quote]

Treeborn Frog is banworthy and always has been. Stop thinking in the current meta. Even at 3, you're only allowed to revive 1 at a time with its effect. Having more than 1 just makes it less counterable by D.D. Crow and D.D. Crow in most cases is only good for stopping cards that shouldn't exist in the first place and Treeborn Frog is one of them.
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poopybuttoxes Newbie

poopybuttoxes

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Posted
[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1282621163' post='4559449']
A card can be both terrible and banworthy at the same time. Look at Victory Dragon. Also, Lightning Vortex, Raigeki Break, Phoenix Wing Wind Blast, Lightsworns, Dark World Dealings and even Hand Destruction also say hi. Lightning Vortex would be banworthy if it lacked the discard cost since you could just play it as if it were a slightly weaker Raigeki. Raigeki Break and Phoenix Wing Wind Blast become better, Lightsworns can easily get it into their Graveyard and Lumina can use it to pay for her discard cost, Dark World Dealings becomes borderline banworthy and Hand Destruction is no longer a -1 although it relies on your opponent being able to maintain a decent sized hand.
[/quote]
But think if you actually used all those cards and you didnt draw sinister. Thats a deck with holes.

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1282621163' post='4559449']
Treeborn Frog is banworthy and always has been. Stop thinking in the current meta. Even at 3, you're only allowed to revive 1 at a time with its effect. Having more than 1 just makes it less counterable by D.D. Crow and D.D. Crow in most cases is only good for stopping cards that shouldn't exist in the first place and Treeborn Frog is one of them.
[/quote]
I agree with what you're saying, but why not think in "the meta"? Thats what you would be in, and one persons meta isnt another persons meta. People should stop using meta like that. Metagame is what people use around you, like at your hobby shop or city/state. If you're thinking about nationally or internationally then you can talk about the game generally.
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burnpsy Newbie

burnpsy

Posted
Posted
[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282622015' post='4559497']
But think if you actually used all those cards and you didnt draw sinister. Thats a deck with holes.
[/quote]

Searching out Sinister Serpent is a joke.

Off the top of my head, the following non-banned cards are available in English that can search it out:

Sangan
Oshaleon
Foolish Burial
One for One
Snake Whistle
Snake Rain
Mother Grizzly
Damage = Reptile
Genex Undine

[quote name='THe ReBeL' timestamp='1282626056' post='4559697']
If there was no bann list yugioh would be great.
[/quote]

Only valid deck: Exchange of the Spirit FTK.
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evilfusion Newbie

evilfusion

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Posted
Sinister Serpent, on the surface, seems mediocre. But it's easy to abuse. A lot of powerful, legal cards have discard costs, and even the more mediocre ones can be much better with a recycleable card to keep paying it. Discards activated during the Standby Phase are costless: You discard Sinister and return it to your hand, or return it to your hand, discard it, and return it to your hand again.

I assume the "stop thinking in the meta" comment means that if you view a card's bannability solely on the present meta, you are blinding yourself to the card's abusability. In a Macro meta, Infernity Launcher isn't broken. Even if in this meta, Sinister Serpent probably isn't a big deal, it is still easily abusable enough to warrant leaving it banned.
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Sleepy Mentor

Sleepy

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Posted
Soo....
-Possible multiple use in the same Standby Phase/Turn.
-Always coming back if it [b]exists[/b] in your Graveyard. So unlike with Treeborn, this card comes back x3 if the list allowed it by just "existing".
-Easily searchable and some of its searchers are fairly splashable.

Broken +1 every turn.

I don't think this would get unbanned.
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burnpsy Newbie

burnpsy

Posted
Posted
[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282628261' post='4559813']
Im understanding what you guys are saying, but you're giving the card too much credit. Are you really gonna use like three or four cards to get sinister?
[/quote]

Depending on the deck, you're probably running some of that stuff already or could fit in it easily while having it be helpful for fetching something other than Sinister Serpent.

Sangan, Foolish Burial and One for One could easily fit into many decks. Mother Grizzly could be added to any non-FTK that runs enough targets for it. Genex Undine can fit into any weird Genex builds that actually runs Genex Controller. Snake Rain is almost mandatory in anything with enough Reptiles. Palomuro Loop decks can run Oshaleon.
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CrabHelmet Newbie

CrabHelmet

Posted
Posted
[quote name='poopybuttoxes' timestamp='1282620151' post='4559407']
Everycard in your hand gives you more advantage over your opponent, but this card is almost useless for anything else besides discard bait.
[/quote]

Raigeki should be legal. It's almost useless for anything else besides killing all monsters your opponent controls.
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