My March 1st 2011 List

[Superdoopertrooper]

[b][u]Forbidden:[/u][/b]

- Dark Hole (from limited)
- Monster Reborn (from limited)
- Cold Wave (from limited)
- Future Fusion (from limited)
- Rekindling (new)
- Torrential Tribute (from limited)
- Mirror Force (from limited)
- Return from the Different Dimension (from limited)
- Call of the Haunted (from limited)
- Trap Dustshoot (from limited)
- Morphing Jar (from limited)

[b][u]Limited:[/u][/b]

- Judgment Dragon (from semi-limited)

[b][u]Semi-Limited:[/u][/b]

- Charge of the Light Brigade (from limited)
- Mezuki (from limited)
- Infernity Archfiend (new)
- Necro Gardna (from limited)

[b][u]No Longer On List:[/u][/b]

- Gold Sarcophagus (from semi-limited)
- Magical Stone Excavation (from semi-limited)
- Chain Strike (from semi-limited)
- Bottomless Trap Hole (from semi-limited)
- Mind Crush (from limited)
- Ultimate Offering (from semi-limited)
- The Transmigration Prophecy (from limited)
- Snipe Hunter (from semi-limited)
- Demise, King of Armageddon (from semi-limited)
- Tsukuyomi (from forbidden)

[Manjoume Thunder]

Forbidden:
- Torrential Tribute (from limited)
- Mirror Force (from limited)
- Call of the Haunted (from limited)

Semi-Limited:

- Infernity Launcher (from limited)
- Black Whirlwind (from limited)
- Charge of the Light Brigade (from limited)
- Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner (from limited)
- Mezuki (from limited)
- Infernity Archfiend (from unlimited)

No Longer On List:
- Demise, King of Armageddon (from semi-limited)
- Necro Gardna (from limited)
- Tsukuyomi (from forbidden)

Terrible list.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

Terrible. Just terrible. You should feel bad for posting this.

[Superdoopertrooper]

And why should I feel bad?
What do you disagree with? I can justify them all very well.

[.Nu-13]

Forbidden:

- Dark Hole (from limited) [b]Agreed[/b]
- Monster Reborn (from limited) [b]Agreed[/b]
- Cold Wave (from limited) [b]Not sure[/b]
- Future Fusion (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Torrential Tribute (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Mirror Force (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Return from the Different Dimension (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Call of the Haunted (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Morphing Jar (from limited) [b]Not sure[/b]

Limited:

- Judgment Dragon (from semi-limited) [b]Should be banned[/b]
- Infernity Barrier (from unlimited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Rekindling (from unlimited) [b]Maybe[/b]

Semi-Limited:

- Infernity Launcher (from limited) [b]Should be banned[/b]
- Black Whirlwind (from limited) [b]Should be banned[/b]
- Charge of the Light Brigade (from limited) [b]Maybe[/b]
- Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner (from limited) [b]No[/b]
- Mezuki (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Infernity Archfiend (from unlimited) [b]Should be limited[/b]

No Longer On List:

- Gold Sarcophagus (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- Magical Stone Excavation (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- Chain Strike (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b]
- Bottomless Trap Hole (from limited) [b]Bottomless is Semi'd, you idiot[/b]
- Mind Crush (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b]
- Ultimate Offering (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- The Transmigration Prophecy (from limited) [b]No[/b]
- Snipe Hunter (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b]
- Demise, King of Armageddon (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b]
- Necro Gardna (from limited) [b]No[/b]
- Tsukuyomi (from forbidden) [b]HELL NAW![/b]

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283087435' post='4577825']
What do you disagree with?
[/quote]

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283086749' post='4577801']
[b][u]Forbidden:[/u][/b]
- Dark Hole (from limited)
- Monster Reborn (from limited)
- Cold Wave (from limited)
- Future Fusion (from limited)
- Torrential Tribute (from limited)
- Mirror Force (from limited)
- Return from the Different Dimension (from limited)
- Call of the Haunted (from limited)
- Morphing Jar (from limited)
[/quote]

Torrential Tribute and Mirror Force do not need to be banned. Torrential Tribute is perfectly acceptable at 3. It is not broken or bannable despite the way it is worded. At best, it would only take down 1 or 2 Monsters essentially putting it on par with Bottomless Trap Hole. The fact it can clear the whole field is just how the card is designed. Players who recklessly overextend deserve to be punished for it. Mirror Force. At 3 it pretty much destroys attacking as a means of offense. At 0, swarm Decks have too much of an easy time going on the offensive. Since Mirror Force is good for punishing overextension, it is acceptable at 1. The others I don't really have a problem with. You just haven't hit enough things.

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283086749' post='4577801']
[b][u]Limited:[/u][/b]
- Judgment Dragon (from semi-limited)
- Infernity Barrier (from unlimited)
- Rekindling (from unlimited)
[/quote]

Judgment Dragon and Rekindling should be banned. If you don't know why Judgment Dragon is banworthy, you suck at this game. Seriously, an easy to summon beatstick and field nuker in 1. Really? Ban it please. Rekindling is an example of themed revival gone too far. With the existence of Synchros, it opens up Synchro spam OTKs and ones that only require 1 card and a bit of set-up. Ban please. Infernity Barrier is just an archetype-specific Solemn Judgment so it deserves to be at 3.

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283086749' post='4577801']
[b][u]Semi-Limited:[/u][/b]
- Infernity Launcher (from limited)
- Black Whirlwind (from limited)
- Charge of the Light Brigade (from limited)
- Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner (from limited)
- Mezuki (from limited)
- Infernity Archfiend (from unlimited)
[/quote]

None of these cards should be semi-Limited. Infernity Launcher should be banned since it allows for consistent OTKs when combined with Archfiend. Now banning either one will kill the OTK but banning Launcher is probably the better move since it is a Double Monster Reborn for Infernities while Infernity Archfiend is a bad Elemental Hero Stratos but a good archetype-specific searcher. Black Whirlwind should be banned. It turns all Blackwing Normal Summons into a ridiculous Gadget-like recruiter engine. Not good. Charge of the Light Brigade and Lumina have no business being touched. Charge of the Light Brigade is just a Reinforcement of the Army for Lightsworn Monsters. Nothing or listworthy there. Lumina is just a Zombie Master for Lightsworn Monsters. Again, nothing that has any business on the ban list. Mezuki is just a silly +1 for Zombies. Ban it please.

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283086749' post='4577801']
[b][u]No Longer On List:[/u][/b]
- Gold Sarcophagus (from semi-limited)
- Magical Stone Excavation (from semi-limited)
- Chain Strike (from semi-limited)
- Bottomless Trap Hole (from limited)
- Mind Crush (from limited)
- Ultimate Offering (from semi-limited)
- The Transmigration Prophecy (from limited)
- Snipe Hunter (from semi-limited)
- Demise, King of Armageddon (from semi-limited)
- Necro Gardna (from limited)
- Tsukuyomi (from forbidden)
[/quote]

Chain Strike should be at 1 otherwise Chain Burn becomes too powerful. Mind Crush is worrying without Trap Dustshoot being banned. Ultimate Offering's only purpose is to allow overextension which isn't good for the game. Ban it please. Snipe Hunter is seriously busted in a similar manner to Brionac. Only most of the time you'll destroy something and you destroy stuff instead of bouncing it. It could theoretically be used everywhere as well. Ban it please. Demise. Banworthy for basically the same reasons as Judgment Dragon. Even if it is a weaker Judgment Dragon which is essentially a better Demise. Tsukuyomi. Should not come off the Forbidden list unless Drop Off and Drastic Drop Off are banned. The rest I don't really see a problem with except maybe Gold Sarcophagus which keep in mind is a generic searcher. Whether that is put at 3 or 0 I guess would be up to whether or not someone doesn't mind having a generic searcher that gives you the card you search for 2 turns later.

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283087435' post='4577825']
And why should I feel bad?
[/quote]

Because you posted this list that looks sorta like something someone from Pojo's Ban List Discussion Forums would think up.

[byak]

Someone's an idiot.

[Superdoopertrooper]

Forbidden:

- Dark Hole (from limited) [b]Agreed[/b]
- Monster Reborn (from limited) [b]Agreed[/b]
- Cold Wave (from limited) [b]Not sure[/b] Your not sure about not being able to activate spells/traps for [b]2[/b] turns?
- Future Fusion (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] You clearly dont know the combos this card can pull off.
- Torrential Tribute (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] A potential + 4 that you can use in either players turn to destroy ALL monsters? Nothing to lol at.
- Mirror Force (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] destroy all attacking monsters? Thats not healthy. if you want to stop swarms, use radiant mirror force.
- Return from the Different Dimension (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Activate when your opponent has no backrow. Game Over.
- Call of the Haunted (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Can revive anything from grave. Interrupt your opponents battle phase. Chain to S/T destruction on sangan.
- Morphing Jar (from limited) [b]Not sure[/b] potential + 5 (and even higher) your still not sure? Plus there is also the OTK

Limited:

- Judgment Dragon (from semi-limited) [b]Should be banned[/b] 1 is fine, otherwise lightsworn dies. Definitely not 2 though!!!!!
- Infernity Barrier (from unlimited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Costless solemn anyone? Solemn is limited to 1.......
- Rekindling (from unlimited) [b]Maybe[/b] Once again, another OTK card like RftDD that is a + 4.

Semi-Limited:

- Infernity Launcher (from limited) [b]Should be banned[/b] That would kill them
- Black Whirlwind (from limited) [b]Should be banned[/b] No it shouldnt, blackwing are terrible atm, they need help.
- Charge of the Light Brigade (from limited) [b]Maybe[/b]
- Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner (from limited) [b]No[/b] Lightsworns are tier 2, need to be made competitive agian.
- Mezuki (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Zombies blow, need to give them more spark so that they can compete again
- Infernity Archfiend (from unlimited) [b]Should be limited[/b] 2 should do the trick I think

No Longer On List:

- Gold Sarcophagus (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- Magical Stone Excavation (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- Chain Strike (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b] Its at 2 and not doing anything, lets just get it off the list, its overcrowded.
- Bottomless Trap Hole (from limited) [b]Bottomless is Semi'd, you idiot[/b] Your right, I thought it got limited this september, my bad. Still, should be at 3 regardless.
- Mind Crush (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] get rid of gorz/trag/fader before attacking. Pro Card.
- Ultimate Offering (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- The Transmigration Prophecy (from limited) [b]No[/b] Average card is average
- Snipe Hunter (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b] No one plays him anyway really.
- Demise, King of Armageddon (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b] Why the hell not?
- Necro Gardna (from limited) [b]No[/b] Help lightsworns out. With JD at 1, they will be balanced.
- Tsukuyomi (from forbidden) [b]HELL NAW![/b] Why not, she sucks now, your over reacting big time.

[Manjoume Thunder]

Too lazy to quote everything ...

lolradiantmirrorforce.
Call of the Haunted is a subpar card that almost no one runs. The Sangan play is perfectly balanced.
Deck do not need to be boosted if that means moving a broken card up the list.
Torrential and Mirror Force are perfectly fine cards. A lot of people do not run them anyway.


Question:
When was the last time you played? 2007?

You tried to go 3-0 then you failed by improving good enough decks by limiting/semi-limiting broken cards.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283089364' post='4577896']
- Future Fusion (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] You clearly dont know the combos this card can pull off.
[/quote]
So by 2011, Konami will have printed a Fusion monster that uses Boneheimer, Shapesnatch, and [s]Rare Fish[/s]Fiendish Engine Omega as a Fusion Material monster that wins the game/match apon summoning it.

K.

[.Nu-13]

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283089364' post='4577896']
Forbidden:

- Dark Hole (from limited) [b]Agreed[/b]
- Monster Reborn (from limited) [b]Agreed[/b]
- Cold Wave (from limited) [b]Not sure[/b] Your not sure about not being able to activate spells/traps for [b]2[/b] turns? [b]It stops Spells and Traps for a turn, but who cares? It's not banworthy[/b]
- Future Fusion (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] You clearly dont know the combos this card can pull off. [b]I know, but this card isn't used in Tier 1 Decks. So, it won't be banned[/b]
- Torrential Tribute (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] A potential + 4 that you can use in either players turn to destroy ALL monsters? Nothing to lol at. [b]There IS something to lol at. It's not chainable, so Dust Tornado, MST or something and bye.[/b]
- Mirror Force (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] destroy all attacking monsters? Thats not healthy. if you want to stop swarms, use radiant mirror force. [b]Radiant Mirror Force? *rotfls hardly, fells from chair, jumps out of the windom*[/b]
- Return from the Different Dimension (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Activate when your opponent has no backrow. Game Over. [b]If you get defeated because of RfaDD, you'r terrible at this game[/b]
- Call of the Haunted (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Can revive anything from grave. Interrupt your opponents battle phase. Chain to S/T destruction on sangan. [b]It summons in Attack. So, summoning weak monsters would be pointless. Summoned monster is too vulneralbe. Should stay @1[/b]
- Morphing Jar (from limited) [b]Not sure[/b] potential + 5 (and even higher) your still not sure? Plus there is also the OTK [b]So what? It needs further discussion about this card's placement. It's really used only in its OTK or in Decks that lack their own draw power[/b]

Limited:

- Judgment Dragon (from semi-limited) [b]Should be banned[/b] 1 is fine, otherwise lightsworn dies. Definitely not 2 though!!!!! [b]I SAID BANNED, YOU MORON!!!!!!!! [/b]
- Infernity Barrier (from unlimited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Costless solemn anyone? Solemn is limited to 1....... [b]But Barrier is Archetype specific[/b]
- Rekindling (from unlimited) [b]Maybe[/b] Once again, another OTK card like RftDD that is a + 4. [b]But Flamvells suck[/b]

Semi-Limited:

- Infernity Launcher (from limited) [b]Should be banned[/b] That would kill them [b]That's why it must be banned. lrn2yugioh[/b]
- Black Whirlwind (from limited) [b]Should be banned[/b] No it shouldnt, blackwing are terrible atm, they need help. [b]No, they don't. Tier 1 decks need to be hit by list completly. BWW gives them too much continency[/b]
- Charge of the Light Brigade (from limited) [b]Maybe[/b]
- Lumina, Lightsworn Summoner (from limited) [b]No[/b] Lightsworns are tier 2, need to be made competitive agian. [b]No, they don't[/b]
- Mezuki (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] Zombies blow, need to give them more spark so that they can compete again [b]No, they don't. Stop using "Deck needs to return" reason [/b]
- Infernity Archfiend (from unlimited) [b]Should be limited[/b] 2 should do the trick I think [b]So you think wrong[/b]

No Longer On List:

- Gold Sarcophagus (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- Magical Stone Excavation (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- Chain Strike (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b] Its at 2 and not doing anything, lets just get it off the list, its overcrowded. [b]@3, Chain Burn would become very consistent. Consistent burn decks are bad for game[/b]
- Bottomless Trap Hole (from limited) [b]Bottomless is Semi'd, you idiot[/b] Your right, I thought it got limited this september, my bad. Still, should be at 3 regardless. [b]Agreed[/b]
- Mind Crush (from limited) [b]lolwut?[/b] get rid of gorz/trag/fader before attacking. Pro Card. [b]That's why it must stay Limited. [/b]
- Ultimate Offering (from semi-limited) [b]Ok[/b]
- The Transmigration Prophecy (from limited) [b]No[/b] Average card is average [b]But we have Pot of Benevolence now. Transmigration won't be back @3[/b]
- Snipe Hunter (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b] No one plays him anyway really. [b]But it's Brionac-like card. You'll rarely get 1 or 6.[/b]
- Demise, King of Armageddon (from semi-limited) [b]No[/b] Why the hell not? [b]Because field nukers should be banned[/b]
- Necro Gardna (from limited) [b]No[/b] Help lightsworns out. With JD at 1, they will be balanced. [b]...lol[/b]
- Tsukuyomi (from forbidden) [b]HELL NAW![/b] Why not, she sucks now, your over reacting big time. [b]It's a 1-per turn invelnerable to battle Book of Moon. Can be Limited, but not Unli[/b]
[/quote]

[Manjoume Thunder]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1283089938' post='4577907']
So by 2011, Konami will have printed a Fusion monster that uses Boneheimer, Shapesnatch, and [s]Rare Fish[/s]Fiendish Engine Omega as a Fusion Material monster that wins the game/match apon summoning it.K.
[/quote]

Future Fusion is ridiculous. Terrible card design. Should have been banned a long time ago.


And Cold Wave is one of the most borken spells that are still legal. And unlike Dark Hole it does not contribute to the game AT ALL.

Why do people here want it to stay is beyond me.

[Kyosuke Kiryu]

The first 4 changes are the only ones I could see happening.

[Toffee.]

[quote name='Manjoume Thunder' timestamp='1283090091' post='4577915']
Future Fusion is ridiculous. Terrible card design. Should have been banned a long time ago.
[/quote]
But its only ridiculous in a Hopeless deck.
(...or something like that)

[Canadian]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1283090398' post='4577924']
But its only ridiculous in a Hopeless deck.
(...or something like that)
[/quote]

Apparently somebody didn't notice CyDra was @ 3 : \

[Superdoopertrooper]

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1283088909' post='4577878']
Torrential Tribute and Mirror Force do not need to be banned. Torrential Tribute is perfectly acceptable at 3. It is not broken or bannable despite the way it is worded. At best, it would only take down 1 or 2 Monsters essentially putting it on par with Bottomless Trap Hole. The fact it can clear the whole field is just how the card is designed. Players who recklessly overextend deserve to be punished for it. Mirror Force. At 3 it pretty much destroys attacking as a means of offense. At 0, swarm Decks have too much of an easy time going on the offensive. Since Mirror Force is good for punishing overextension, it is acceptable at 1. The others I don't really have a problem with. You just haven't hit enough things.[/quote]
TT is balanced at 3? Are you 3 years of age!? The overextension argument is flawed, because it can be used even when your opponent has not overextended. It can be used to stop any key summon, as well as a swarms, and also destroys face-downs. Way too versatile and powerful. Its a Dark Hole that can be activated during your opponents turn. Surely you have been pissed off at some point when your opponent just flips torrential and all your hard work with field commitment goes out the window. Mirror force is not as powerful or broken as TT, but it is still pretty darn bad. It makes Sakuretsu armour obsolete, as well as D. Prison (in most cases) and any other 1 for 1 card. It just has too much potential to destroy so many monsters. If your opponent is overextending, use cards that specifically punish it ie. Radiant Mirror Force.

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1283088909' post='4577878']
Judgment Dragon and Rekindling should be banned. If you don't know why Judgment Dragon is banworthy, you suck at this game. Seriously, an easy to summon beatstick and field nuker in 1. Really? Ban it please. Rekindling is an example of themed revival gone too far. With the existence of Synchros, it opens up Synchro spam OTKs and ones that only require 1 card and a bit of set-up. Ban please. Infernity Barrier is just an archetype-specific Solemn Judgment so it deserves to be at 3.[/quote]
Come to think of it, your actually right about rekindling being banned altogether, because it can SS a ridiculous amount of monsters. But I disagree about JD, he is a "Boss Monster" for the theme, and with graveyard regulation, you can stop it from hitting the field, not to mention he often gets milled. At 1, he would be pretty inconsistent.

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1283088909' post='4577878']
None of these cards should be semi-Limited. Infernity Launcher should be banned since it allows for consistent OTKs when combined with Archfiend. Now banning either one will kill the OTK but banning Launcher is probably the better move since it is a Double Monster Reborn for Infernities while Infernity Archfiend is a bad Elemental Hero Stratos but a good archetype-specific searcher. Black Whirlwind should be banned. It turns all Blackwing Normal Summons into a ridiculous Gadget-like recruiter engine. Not good. Charge of the Light Brigade and Lumina have no business being touched. Charge of the Light Brigade is just a Reinforcement of the Army for Lightsworn Monsters. Nothing or listworthy there. Lumina is just a Zombie Master for Lightsworn Monsters. Again, nothing that has any business on the ban list. Mezuki is just a silly +1 for Zombies. Ban it please.
[/quote]
The OTK only really works when Launcher and Archfiend are at 3. Trust me, I played against an infernity deck yesterday at locals, with both at 2, it is quite balanced, otherwise you risk making the deck useless, and we need deck diversity right now.

[quote name='Judgment Phoenix' timestamp='1283088909' post='4577878']
Chain Strike should be at 1 otherwise Chain Burn becomes too powerful. Mind Crush is worrying without Trap Dustshoot being banned. Ultimate Offering's only purpose is to allow overextension which isn't good for the game. Ban it please. Snipe Hunter is seriously busted in a similar manner to Brionac. Only most of the time you'll destroy something and you destroy stuff instead of bouncing it. It could theoretically be used everywhere as well. Ban it please. Demise. Banworthy for basically the same reasons as Judgment Dragon. Even if it is a weaker Judgment Dragon which is essentially a better Demise. Tsukuyomi. Should not come off the Forbidden list unless Drop Off and Drastic Drop Off are banned. The rest I don't really see a problem with except maybe Gold Sarcophagus which keep in mind is a generic searcher. Whether that is put at 3 or 0 I guess would be up to whether or not someone doesn't mind having a generic searcher that gives you the card you search for 2 turns later.[/quote]
Mind crush is pro! get gorz/trag/fader out of opponents hand before you attack. Gets around emmersblade and searchers (which is a good, healthy thing, otherwise they are practically unstoppable). Ultimate Offering has been at 2 for a while, and face it, it isnt really hurting anyone, in fact its not really that good at all. Tsukuyomi just isnt good anymore, she gets bounced at the end of the turn, wastes normal summon, and the effect is just a book of moon, which is at 3. The current meta is just too fast for her, she would get left in the dust.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283090690' post='4577937']
TT is balanced at 3? Are you 3 years of age!? The overextension argument is flawed, because it can be used even when your opponent has not overextended. It can be used to stop any key summon, as well as a swarms, and also destroys face-downs. Way too versatile and powerful. Its a Dark Hole that can be activated during your opponents turn. Surely you have been pissed off at some point when your opponent just flips torrential and all your hard work with field commitment goes out the window. Mirror force is not as powerful or broken as TT, but it is still pretty darn bad. It makes Sakuretsu armour obsolete, as well as D. Prison (in most cases) and any other 1 for 1 card. It just has too much potential to destroy so many monsters. If your opponent is overextending, use cards that specifically punish it ie. Radiant Mirror Force.

[b]Ohhohoho. Sakuretsu Armor and Dimensional Prison are not obsolete in the presence of Mirror Force. By that logic, Dimensional Prison should be banned becuase its presence makes Sakuretsu Armor pretty much obsolete which it does actually. Also, regarding Radiant Mirror Force, it is garbage because all it is good for is punishing overextension. It's activation requirement makes it a dead card in most cases. With Torrential Tribute, I have been playing in formats with it at 3 and it is not really a problem. In some cases, it helps keep in check overextension and in a well played duel, it would only take down about 1 or 2 monsters most of the time. Torrential Tribute is not a Dark Hole that can be activated on your opponent's turn. It is however a Dark Hole that is triggered when your opponent summons a Monster. I guess you could argue for the same reason Mirror Force makes stuff like Dimensional Prison and Sakuretsu Armor obsolete (which is a stupid argument because with Mirror Force at 1, you would need either themed Mirror Forces which require you to have a monster in play or some other ridiculous activation requirement like Radiant Mirror Force or stuff like Dimensional Prison for more attack negation should you need it) that it makes stuff like Bottomless Trap Hole and Trap Hole obsolete and that is not necessarily the case.[/b]

Come to think of it, your actually right about rekindling being banned altogether, because it can SS a ridiculous amount of monsters. But I disagree about JD, he is a "Boss Monster" for the theme, and with graveyard regulation, you can stop it from hitting the field, not to mention he often gets milled. At 1, he would be pretty inconsistent.

[b]The Judgment Dragon argument is stupid. Being a themed boss Monster is a lousy counterargument against its ban. If LS need Judgment Dragon to be good which they don't, they deserve to be bad. With Rekindling, the consistency argument just means you have less chances of drawing it yet it is still a problem when drawn and it turns the game into a who can draw Rekindling first game. It may not necessarily be the case depending on the meta that results from it though but it is still a problem when drawn. Banning it altogether eliminates that problem.[/b]

The OTK only really works when Launcher and Archfiend are at 3. Trust me, I played against an infernity deck yesterday at locals, with both at 2, it is quite balanced, otherwise you risk making the deck useless, and we need deck diversity right now.

[b]Infernity Mirage and Stygian Street Patrol still exist. I have been playtesting Infernities under the current format. They aren't as consistent when it comes to OTKing as they were last format but they're not dead. They can still win even with 1 Launcher. They still have Mirage to start the OTK and Stygian Street Patrol can be used to essentially make Mirage another Launcher. With Archfiend, you only need 1 to do the OTK loop so Semi Limiting it just means you can only use 2 in the Deck. If you ban it, the OTK becomes implausible and Launcher becomes acceptable at 3. However, an archetype-specific searcher gives more to the game than an archetype-specific Double Monster Reborn. With Dark Grepher which would be decked in any good Infernity Deck as well as Infernity Inferno, you still have reliable means of dumping it so Semi Limiting it doesn't fix anything. Same with Launcher. If a Deck needs a banworthy card to exist, it simply doesn't deserve to live. Infernities are still good even with 1 Launcher so I doubt banning it would hurt. Then I guess you would have to do something about Infernity Mirage since Stygian Street Patrol exists. I'm still not too sure how consistent or problematic it would be though. I don't have anything against diversity in the game but if a Deck type is so problematic that it limits that diversity by reducing the number of viable Deck types in the metagame, it is better off dead so more Deck types become viable.[/b]

Mind crush is pro! get gorz/trag/fader out of opponents hand before you attack. Gets around emmersblade and searchers (which is a good, healthy thing, otherwise they are practically unstoppable). Ultimate Offering has been at 2 for a while, and face it, it isnt really hurting anyone, in fact its not really that good at all. Tsukuyomi just isnt good anymore, she gets bounced at the end of the turn, wastes normal summon, and the effect is just a book of moon, which is at 3. The current meta is just too fast for her, she would get left in the dust.

[b]Gorz and Tragoedia should be banned in their own right. Well with Metamorphosis banned Tragoedia could probably stay but it is still a weaker Gorz and it rewards overconservative play in a similar manner to how Gorz does. Of course, Gorz does sort of counter broken stuff that shouldn't exist in the game in the first place but in the absence of said broken stuff, Gorz is not good for the game. Ultimate Offering is only good for helping overextension and is therefore banworthy. Its absence in the current meta just means there are bigger problems out there. Also, its absence does not change the effect of Ultimate Offering. Tsukuyomi probably wouldn't make enough of an impact in the current meta but without banning Drop Off and Drastic Drop Off or Mask of Darkness, she should stay banned despite being balanced. The way she combos with othercards is what is not good for the game.

You really should think more outside the current meta because bigger problems overshadow the smaller ones and that just goes to show you that the game itself has a lot of problems.[/b]
[/quote]

Comments in bold because the lousy quote system wants to be lousy.

[♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥]

[center][color="#9932CC"][b]I'm surprised nobody mentioned Black Rose Dragon.

Either that, or the thread was tl;dr.[/b][/color][/center]

[Superdoopertrooper]

[quote name='♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥' timestamp='1283102653' post='4578486']
[center][color="#9932CC"][b]I'm surprised nobody mentioned Black Rose Dragon.

Either that, or the thread was tl;dr.[/b][/color][/center]
[/quote]
With dark hole, torrential and mirror force gone, Black Rose can be safely taken off the list as a bit of compensation. You still have to Synch for it, which makes it less reliable. Those other cards can be used at the drop of a hat.

[♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥]

[quote name='Superdoopertrooper' timestamp='1283103038' post='4578531']
With dark hole, torrential and mirror force gone, Black Rose can be safely taken off the list as a bit of compensation. You still have to Synch for it, which makes it less reliable. Those other cards can be used at the drop of a hat.
[/quote]
[center][color="#9932CC"][b]You do know that Torrential and Mirror Force won't be banned, right?[/b][/color][/center]

[Superdoopertrooper]

[quote name='♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥' timestamp='1283103126' post='4578537']
[center][color="#9932CC"][b]You do know that Torrential and Mirror Force won't be banned, right?[/b][/color][/center]
[/quote]
Torrential might get hit with the ban-hammer sometime down the track, but I fear mirror force is probably hear to stay (which is bad!). This is theoretical though, and BRD has already been taken off the list completely this september by Konami.

[-Lightray Daedalus-]

I love how we didn't even started playing in Sep 2010 Format and we are disscussing March 2011 one...

tl.dr

List is bad.

[El-Rrey]

Seriously, we are getting Starstrike Blast in not such a big while, just wait for the format to "show-up" to make a banlist!

Also, i love the fact JD is still hated, he is now rare and a win condition for LS so expect a LS player to drop it and finish you off ASAP. We need Lumina at 3 to ban JD IMO.

[♥ ЅϯᵲåώӀӞ℮ᴙʀɣ−ɴɨɨ−ƈħåɴ ♥]

[center][color="#9932CC"][b]I can't wait for Starstrike Blast. So many randomly awesome cards are in that pack.[/b][/color][/center]

[burnpsy]

[quote name='-Dae-' timestamp='1283103840' post='4578595']
I love how we didn't even started playing in Sep 2010 Format and we are disscussing March 2011 one...

List is bad.
[/quote]

This is exactly what I was thinking.