Toffee. Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 [center][img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071215224744/yugioh/images/a/a4/WishDragon-JP-Manga.png[/img] [quote] During your Main Phase, you can Tribute this face-up monster to Special Summon 2 "Dragon Tokens" (Dragon-Type/LIGHT/Level 1/ATK 0/DEF 0).[/quote][/center] Guiz, can you imagine how broke this would be with Darkness Metal? Discuss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Frost Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I hate the BKSS ruling that says darkness metal can remove tokens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 [quote name='Da Frost' timestamp='1286682246' post='4692738'] I hate the BKSS ruling that says darkness metal can remove tokens. [/quote] Re-explained below x.x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Frost Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Then how come you can't send tokens to special summon the those arcana force monsters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 Because the summoning condition for the EX say "sending 3 monsters to the graveyard". Being a summoning condition, just like Trap Eater vs Macro Cosmos, if it cannot be literally fulfilled, it cannot be done. Red-Eyes Darkness Metal isn't a Summoning condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 changed and reexplained below Dx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 [quote name='darkwolf777' timestamp='1286691803' post='4692951'] Well, the part that lets Red-Eyes Darkness Metal Dragon Special Summon itself by using 1 Dragon-Type Tribute IS a Summon Condition as well x.o [/quote] But you can just Normal Summon/Set Darkness Metal. The difference is the rulings/wordings. Arcana Force [i]REQUIRES[/i] to [i]send the monsters to the graveyard[/i], as its the only way you can summon that. Darkness Metal just wants you Remove a face-up one from play as an alternate method of summoning it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 I understand that. I didn't say that REDMD WASNT a nomi, though i knew that, but I didn't think I had to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Frost Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 What about manticore of darkness? You can't send a token to special summon him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 [quote name='Da Frost' timestamp='1286738955' post='4694370'] What about manticore of darkness? You can't send a token to special summon him either. [/quote] Because you have to [i]Send a Beast-Type to the Graveyard[/i]. If his effect just said: "Tribute 1 Beast-Type to do [X]", then you could use tokens. Again, its all about how the card's effect is worded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurtleOnceCalledGod Posted October 10, 2010 Report Share Posted October 10, 2010 [i]Almost[/i] Dandylion of Dragons, would give them more support. Its a free +1 field advantage, what's not to like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkwolf777 Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 Woah woah woah.. i see the problem here x.o Sorry, Da Frost, my initial explanation was incorrect What I mentioned is somewhat true here, Tokens when they are removed from play or sent to the Graveyard just simply evaporate. The real problem does lie in regards to the wording here, which I made a confusing mistake above. To "send X card to the Graveyard" as a cost means the card must be sent from wherever it was and be placed into the Graveyard. In the case of Tokens, Tokens cannot "exist" in the Graveyard, and therefore you cannot pay costs with Tokens for cards that "send to the Graveyard". Removing from play is different. Cards use the wording "Remove from play X card to do something". The difference here is that cards DO NOT say "Send X card to the Remove from Play zone". This means that the card itself does not have to end up in the Remove from Play area to be valid. In regards to simply "Removing from Play" as a cost, Tokens are indeed valid. This is why it is valid for a card like REDMD work to remove a Token from play as a cost/requirement since the Token doesn't have to be in the RFG zone, while it is not valid to "send a token to the Graveyard" as a cost/requirement since tokens can never truly be in the Graveyard. Sorry for not explaining it correctly at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas★Zero Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 This + Marauding Captain = Obelisk the Tormentor in 1 turn :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 [quote name='kingdom Neos' timestamp='1286791439' post='4695925'] This + Marauding Captain = Obelisk the Tormentor in 1 turn :3 [/quote] ITT: You can Normal Summon twice per turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysty Posted October 11, 2010 Report Share Posted October 11, 2010 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1286812329' post='4696345'] ITT: You can Normal Summon twice per turn [/quote] Or a horrible 4 card combo that only achieves bringing Obelisk the Tormentor out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 [i]Byłby nerf jak nic. Wiadomo, przywołaj to, dajesz 2 tokeny, usuwasz jednego na REDRUMa, odzyskujesz Wish Draga, i kolejne 2 tokeny. Ta, ban by był jak nic. Albo i limit przynajmniej[/i] Would be nerfed. You know, Summon this, get 2 Tokens, RFP 1 for REDRUM, revive this, and next 2 tokens. Would be banned in this version. Or at least limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 [quote name='Laevatein' timestamp='1286995994' post='4702096'] Would be nerfed. You know, Summon this, get 2 Tokens, RFP 1 for REDRUM, revive this, and next 2 tokens. Would be banned in this version. Or at least limited. [/quote] Heres how they nerf it: Its real Attribute is EARTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Nu-13 Posted October 13, 2010 Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 [i]A co to da wogóle? Nie będzie różnicy. No wiadomo, Honest, ale coś jeszcze?[/i] Why would they even? It won't change a thing. Ok, yeah, Honest, but something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted October 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2010 [quote name='Laevatein' timestamp='1286996274' post='4702111'] Why would they even? It won't change a thing. Ok, yeah, Honest, but something else? [/quote] Hoepless.dek preforms so much better if the majority of the cards in it are DARK. If this ends up as something that isnt LIGHT or DARK, and maybe if it became a level 3, it would be nerfed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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