Goyo Guardian

[evilfusion]

An important thing to remember about broken cards: It's NOT relative.

Raigeki was always broken. The game was just too slow for anyone to really notice how bad it was.

Chaos Emperor Dragon was always broken. And boy, did it show.

Cards part of broken combos, like Butterfly Dagger, were not broken. The combo is, and Dagger took the hit for the good of the game.

When stronger cards get released, they're declared broken by many who compare them to the state of the game or commonly played cards. The problem is, as the game went on, stronger and stronger cards got released to make the playing field level, rather than more gradually introduce power to cards, or keep stricter restrictions on how the power is divided. Because of this, there becomes a power vacuum, only allowing certain strategies, decks, or styles to be playable because those have the support and synergy. Other, older archetypes and decks either got hit by the banlist due to abuse or a realization of what they do to the game, and they're passed over for support in most cases.

Are all cards these days broken? No. But if you compare them to the days of LOB, yes, yes they are. Synchros in general have majorly shifted the factor of power away from well-supported archetypes to the point where any player with almost any deck can quickly and easily create big monsters, and Special Summoning is no longer a quick power play or a boss-like monster. Special Summoning dictates the game. Generic Synchros worsen this factor, because almost every non-generic Synchro is treated with derision. They are not easy to summon and their effects aren't worth the effort when you look at the generic Synchros, who get terrific effects for very little game effort.

Goyo Guardian is a fine example of generic Synchros gone wrong. It is an easy level to make, has more ATK than even most of the level 8 and level 7 Synchros, and steals the monsters that it kills in battle, which I'm sure won't be happening much at all, right?

It's not that all cards these days are broken. It's that the game has evolved to the point where many of the cards go against the original game concepts, where more resources had to be commited to monsters with game-winning effects or focuses, but now almost every card has to have very specific restrictions or they'll break the game. To counteract these new evolutions, more powerful cards have to be made, or they'll never be used in favor of the cards already released that get things done. Many older and newer cards are either decent, but will fall flat because other cards do it better; powerful/good card because they can hold up to the meta, or god awful and will never be used again in the history of the game.

[-Berserker-]

We cannot compare a synchro with a normal/effect monster of the same level... The levels have different purpose in that kind of card... The min and the max number of monsters needed to summon this is the same as Magical Android or Hyper Psychic Blaster. It's not like a synchro needs just 1 monster to summon it because it's lv 5/6. You'll -1in yourself anyways (in theory). But with this same logic, lv 5 fusion monsters would have 3000 ATK because you lose even more advantage to summon them, so just ignore me...

I recently pulled this. My extra deck is almost acceptable.

[Professional Duelist]

OUt of all level 6's being broken we choose not Brionac.

[byak]

[quote name='Professional Duelist' timestamp='1287019827' post='4703451']
OUt of all level 6's being broken we choose not Brionac.
[/quote]

q4e

[Great Unclean One: VK]

It's a easy to summon beatstick with a good attack and a effect that should have a down side.

Broken.

[Coffee Black]

Wow, a good thread. it's been a second since I've seen a decent discussion.

I'm just happy Goyo isn't immune to spells and traps. That may be the only excuse it has to remain at 1.

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1286982986' post='4701555']
When stronger cards get released, they're declared broken by many who compare them to the state of the game or commonly played cards. The problem is, as the game went on, stronger and stronger cards got released to make the playing field level, rather than more gradually introduce power to cards, or keep stricter restrictions on how the power is divided. Because of this, there becomes a power vacuum, only allowing certain strategies, decks, or styles to be playable because those have the support and synergy. Other, older archetypes and decks either got hit by the banlist due to abuse or a realization of what they do to the game, and they're passed over for support in most cases.

Are all cards these days broken? No. But if you compare them to the days of LOB, yes, yes they are. Synchros in general have majorly shifted the factor of power away from well-supported archetypes to the point where any player with almost any deck can quickly and easily create big monsters, and Special Summoning is no longer a quick power play or a boss-like monster. Special Summoning dictates the game. Generic Synchros worsen this factor, because almost every non-generic Synchro is treated with derision. They are not easy to summon and their effects aren't worth the effort when you look at the generic Synchros, who get terrific effects for very little game effort.

Goyo Guardian is a fine example of generic Synchros gone wrong. It is an easy level to make, has more ATK than even most of the level 8 and level 7 Synchros, and steals the monsters that it kills in battle, which I'm sure won't be happening much at all, right?

It's not that all cards these days are broken. It's that the game has evolved to the point where many of the cards go against the original game concepts, where more resources had to be commited to monsters with game-winning effects or focuses, but now almost every card has to have very specific restrictions or they'll break the game. To counteract these new evolutions, more powerful cards have to be made, or they'll never be used in favor of the cards already released that get things done. Many older and newer cards are either decent, but will fall flat because other cards do it better; powerful/good card because they can hold up to the meta, or god awful and will never be used again in the history of the game.
[/quote]

Really good post.
A problem with this game that can't be solved is a power creep. A lot of cards that we consider good nowadays would be considered overpowered years back. And I bet if the game is still around for a while, numerous cards will be made that are just as or even more powerful than goyo. I guess it's both a good and a bad thing. Newer, better cards keep the game fresh, but it also makes older cards more difficult to play.

[Fader]

What was Konami smoking? Oh yes, they are always smoking something. instantly Bannable

[SephirothKirby]

2400 ATK

we're good

[Fader]

[quote name='SephirothKirby' timestamp='1287258176' post='4709942']
2400 ATK

we're good
[/quote]
This

[~British Soul~]

i'm gonna destroy your monster and we won't see you again, lol jk i'm goyo guardian, i'm gonna steal it

[Canadian]

He's climbin' on yo field, snatchin' yo monsters up.

[IMG]http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv245/CanadianDave/GoyoDodson.jpg[/IMG]

[Fader]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1287259698' post='4710045']
He's climbin' on yo field, snatchin' yo monsters up.

[IMG]http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv245/CanadianDave/GoyoDodson.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]
Stygian security shows up.
S.S"Hey Mr. Guardian, you are under arrest"

Goyo: "Call me G.G"

S.s: *Destroys monster Goyo snatched. Gaining 800 ATK and then attacks Goyo*

Goyo: "And I wouldve gotten away with it too if t werent for you meddling Tuners!" [/notfunny]

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='.:Fader:.' timestamp='1287260680' post='4710102']
Stygian security shows up.
S.S"Hey Mr. Guardian, you are under arrest"

Goyo: "Call me G.G"

S.s: *Destroys monster Goyo snatched. Gaining 800 ATK and then attacks Goyo*

Goyo: "And I wouldve gotten away with it too if t werent for you meddling Tuners!" [/notfunny]
[/quote]
lol at the reference, goyo could recruit a bunch of potential monsters for the perfect crime..............victory lol

[burnpsy]

Unfortunately, one must pick between two necessary evils:

[list=1]
[*]Overall Power Creep w/Banlist
[*]No Power Creep or Negative Power Creep w/Rotation
[/list]

and honestly, option 2 would make YGO far inferior to its two main competitors. Due to this, we need the existence of splashable cards with unfair effects like Goyo and Brionac in order to make Yu-Gi-Oh! what it is. The stolen monster being forced into defense mode is honestly enough of a drawback most of the time and I can't remember the last time this made a significant impact in one of my duels.

[evilfusion]

Ah, I remember a duel I had...today, where my opponent brought out Goyo and Chaos Sorcerer and hit me for 5100 damage. Then I brought out my own Goyo, stole his Chaos, and removed his Goyo. Needless to say, I won.

Goyo's crime is its 2800 ATK. Even if you can take out the stolen monster, you need to cut the root or it'll be a cycle. And if it doesn't cycle, you get overwhelmed. There are a number of monster stealers, but the strongest besides Goyo is a 2400 Effect monster and almost all others have a downside, such as Red-Eyes Zombie Dragon only steals Zombies it destroys, and Brain Crusher is a 7 star with no upside. Goyo is a 2800 generic Synchro monster, both easier to summon, has more support, doesn't require actual cards in the deck, and just plain steals anything it kills.

[byak]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1287259698' post='4710045']
He's climbin' on yo field, snatchin' yo monsters up.

[IMG]http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv245/CanadianDave/GoyoDodson.jpg[/IMG]
[/quote]

You are so dumb.
You are really really dumb.
Fo real.

[Manjoume Thunder]

[quote]2400 ATK

we're good[/quote]

The only reason he is not banned yet is his high ATK.

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

must be that......

clearly his snatch steal like effect has nothing to do with it.

[Manjoume Thunder]

I don't think that his snatch steal effect is a reason [i]not[/i] to ban him.

[s]inb4iwasn'ttalkingtoyou[/s]