Grand Prix Duels

[Mehmani]

I always found Tag Team Dueling fun, though I'd always get a bad partner. The two best duelists in my school (one runs Exodia Stall the other Hopeless Dragon) decided to team up against me (with my Budget Zombies) and my friend Andrew (with Machinas). Andrew was no frills - he went f*cking hardcore and managed to OTK the Dragon guy on the second turn (got out a Gearframe, 3 Fortresses & a Gadget + Limiter Removal for lulz). He could have killed the Exodia guy but sadly forgot about Limiter's drawback and lost all of his field advantage. I eventually managed to swarm with Zombies and attacked Exodia guy's face-down. Wall of Illusion. Bullshit. Next turn, Exodia guy Dark Holes then boasts about how he has 4 Exodia pieces already. I have no backrow, he attacks, I summon Gorz. His was a Brave Underdog Exodia, you understand. He attacked me with BEWD. I get a 3000 ATK token and Gorz. I set Sakretsu Armor on my turn, ready. He attacks Gorz with BEWD, Sakretsu, blam. He has no cards on the field and 4 Exodia pieces in his hand. I improvise - Monster Reborn Il Blud, go for game.

Now that I've finished my little story, I actually like your idea quite a lot.

[Mysty]

[quote name='WRGP rules']
- Main Deck: 40 - 60 cards
- Extra Deck: Up to 15 cards
- No Side Deck. [i]Personally, I feel this shouldn't be the case. I feel like you should be able to side in and out before you go up for your team, maybe allow a minute after your teammate loses. Sure, this means that the first duelist on each team gets kinda screwed, and the second duelist could get pretty screwed if their first duelist of the team is defeated too easily, but at least the third duelist and/or the duelists in the winning team will be sure to get a good amount of time to side. Either that, or this could be done in matches and you side regularly, but I don't see that being viable.[/i]
- Each Team allow to use: 1 Restricted card, 2 Semi Restricted card, 3 Non Restricted card, Following the rules from Konami (Hong Kong) Team Tournament [E.G: If your team has 1 member using Giant Trunade, the other 2 members cannot use giant trunade. if your team is using treeborn frog, the total number of treeborn frog in your team's deck must be 3. So you have to think of a way to share among yourselves. This rules applies to all Main Deck, Side Deck and Extra Deck of the Team]
- There are [b]3[/b] Duelists in a Team.
- Each Duelist has 8000 Life Points, so a team has [b]24000[/b] Life Points in total. [i]Well, not exactly, because any overkill damage you take doesn't trample over to your opponent, otherwise a person could own all three opponents with an Overload'd Limiter'd Chimeratech Overdragon.[/i]
- The Grand Prix is a 1-on-1 match.
- Each team must set members to the first and second Duelists. [i]And obviously the third person is the third duelist.[/i]
- If one loses, the losing team must replace him/her by the next Duelist.
- The existing Duelist maintains current Life Points while the new Duelist has 8000 Life Points.
- Life Points left from the prior Duelist won't be transferred to the following Duelist.
- If a Duelist stops with some Life Points remaining, e.g. opponent won by special method such as Deck Out, the next Duelist will start with full 8000 Life Points.
- When each Duel ends, the turn at that moment is ended immediately and becomes End Phase. Hence any card that returned during the End Phase, e.g. Stardust Dragon, will still return. [i]In the anime, it also seems that they can use any effects they've already activated.[/i]
[i]-The next turn is whichever player lost that turn. If there was a draw, then it goes to the team whose turn it wasn't.[/i]
- Any cards remain on the field of the 1st Duelist that lost will remain on the field and pass on to the 2nd Duelist. Cards in the Graveyard, Hand and Remove from Play Zone are reseted and hence are not pass on to the 2nd Duelist.

Tournament Format Explaination:-
AB[b]C[/b] VS 12[b]3[/b]

Round 1:
Duelist A (LP: 8000) VS Duelist 1 (LP: 8000)

If let's say Duelist 1 reaches 0 LP, it will straight away enter into End Phase, hence, any card(s) during that activate during the End Phase of Duelist 1's turn (example: Stardust Dragon), will still return back to the field. And cards remaining on the field will be pass on to Duelist 2.

Cards in the Hand and Graveyard and Removed from Play Cards of Duelist 1 are not passed on to Duelist 2.

Duelist A then will battle with Duelist 2.

Duelist A (Remaining LP) VS Duelist 2 (LP: 8000)

The round will start straight away with Duelist 2.

The match will end if all members of a Team loses.

The Winning Team will then move on to the next Stage.
[/quote]

I've made some edits and notes inside the rules from what I noticed.

Another sidetopic: how do you see the meta of this type of game, and how would you alter the banlist for this game while keeping it as similar as possible to the current ban list as possible?

[Toffee.]

Chaos Necromancer would be pretty hilarious here.
Right?

[.Nu-13]

[quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1288277670' post='4744679']
Another sidetopic: how do you see the meta of this type of game, and how would you alter the banlist for this game while keeping it as similar as possible to the current ban list as possible?
[/quote]

Ban Exodia. Other stuff on banlist can stay IMO. And meta? 60 card themless highlander But seriously, something else than the stuff that is in current meta. Or maybe...

[Toffee.]

Why not just ban all the game-winners, as they pretty much imply the same logic as Exodia.

[.Nu-13]

Hmmm... right

[Mysty]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1288277769' post='4744681']
Chaos Necromancer would be pretty hilarious here.
Right?
[/quote]

Not especially. Only fields get transferred over, not hands, Graveyards, RFP's, etc.

[quote name='Chillaccino' timestamp='1288277920' post='4744687']
Ban Exodia. Other stuff on banlist can stay IMO. And meta? 60 card themless highlander But seriously, something else than the stuff that is in current meta. Or maybe...
[/quote]

Banning Exodia and putting the pieces at 3 I can understand. After all, Exodia is banworthy anyway.
Perhaps Final Countdown should be banned as well? After all, duels will go a lot longer and there are a lot more points to plow through. Even if the card is ruled that it only causes one player to lose, one person activating two on different turns could potentially be disastrous, especially if all th decks on the team of the Final Countdown deck are all able to stall in their own way.
What about Vennominaga, Destiny Board, Exodius the Ultimate Forbidden Lord, and whatever other "you win the game as long as a certain condition is fulfilled" cards there are? Exodius is solved by banning Exodia, and Vennominaga rarely wins with her effect, but what about Destiny Board.

Maybe issue special rulings:
• When your opponent loses, if Vennominaga has three or more Hyper-Venom Counters, remove all of them from her.
• Destiny Board's effect only works once each time you assemble DEATH/FINAL. After it uses its "DEATH/FINAL" instant win effect, the pieces stay on the field but that Destiny Board's "you win the game" effect is negated as long as it is on the field, and you are left with the letters clogging your S/T zone. However, if Destiny Board is removed from the field, you are free to try to assemble the message again.

I can imagine Infernities being an excellent first duelist. They get out a bunch of Synchro monsters and probably plow through the first duelist, and maybe a good chunk of the second and their handless state is not passed to their teammate. The other two decks could easily be other meta decks. After all, these style of team dueling doesn' put too much emphasis on the "team" part of it except multiple opponents and keeping your field compatible with your next teammate.

[.Nu-13]

You know, these duels kinda remind me Pokemon Battles... you must assembel your team to get good synergy. Ok, so let's think of most pro team for GP Duels. As you said, Infernities would be great opening, as they can drop bunch of synchros and lock your opponent with Barrier. What about 2nd and 3rd deck?

[evilfusion]

"I activate Monster Reincarnation, discarding the left leg and retrieving...ooh, Left Leg of the Forbidden One! I win."

"I summon Left Arm and attack your monster. Main Phase 2, I activate Dark Eruption and retrieve Left Arm. I win again!"

So yeah, just ban instant win conditions. The rulings would be a nightmare and it could be pretty abusable as it is.

[Mysty]

[quote name='Chillaccino' timestamp='1288279447' post='4744747']
You know, these duels kinda remind me Pokemon Battles... you must assembel your team to get good synergy. Ok, so let's think of most pro team for GP Duels. As you said, Infernities would be great opening, as they can drop bunch of synchros and lock your opponent with Barrier. What about 2nd and 3rd deck?
[/quote]

I don't think the team part is especially important as much as arranging the decks so that they will counter each other's weaknesses but still work with each others' cards. That might be not so much synergy as turning down how specific the decks are to themselves. For (bad) example, using Dark Bribe instead of Infernity Barrier.
The major difference between this and a Pokemon battle is that your order is locked in, so it isn't so much being synergistic as not having the same weakness as the previous deck.

As for second and third deck, I'm not sure if it will really matter. If the decks are good and can hold their own, it shouldn't matter too much. The 2nd deck should be well prepared against decks that beat infernities and the 3rd deck designed to beat the most common weakness to the second deck.

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1288279622' post='4744755']
"I activate Monster Reincarnation, discarding the left leg and retrieving...ooh, Left Leg of the Forbidden One! I win."

"I summon Left Arm and attack your monster. Main Phase 2, I activate Dark Eruption and retrieve Left Arm. I win again!"

So yeah, just ban instant win conditions. The rulings would be a nightmare and it could be pretty abusable as it is.
[/quote]

How about this: ban all the victory conditions that win the game as long as a specific condition is fulfilled, as long as that condition is still fulfillable, and instead rule the ones that win at a certain time so that they cause the opponent to lose instead. That wouldn't make any horrific rulings.
For example: ban Exodia, unlimit the pieces, ban Vennominaga and Destiny Board, but keep Exodius because his condition is no longer fulfillable and he isn't really banworthy.
As for the timing issue, the only cards I can think of that win at a specific time are Last Turn and Final Countdown. Last turn is banned, so we shouldn't need to worry about that, but what about Final Countdown? Even with a ruling that says the opponent loses instead, a deck dedicated to stalling and being able to activate Final Countdown 3 times on different turns (uses 3 Final Countdowns, Spell reclamation, Magical Stone Evacuation, etc.) would cause a systematic elimination of the opponents. (I figure if more than one were set for the same turn, they would only eliminate one opponent, so you'd have to activate them all on different turns to get different clocks rolling). Not to mention duels are already about 3x longer in this format.
What do you think: should Final Countdown be banned anyway?

[Brinolovania]

Definately ban countdown.

[Mysty]

[quote name='-Pacman-' timestamp='1288296468' post='4745279']
Definately ban countdown.
[/quote]
I agree. Very much.

Now the real question: should Vennominaga and Destiny Board just instead cause the opponent to lose and have their game-winning effects negated?
Personally, I think that, when an opponent loses the game, Vennominaga should lose all of its counters (like anyone actually wins with them anyway) and Destiny Board should just stay onto the field. After all, there's no way you can remove a piece and replay it without the board exploding.

Somebody pointed out that they would be ruling nightmares, but then I realized, so are a lot of cards, and people still play this game. How complicated could making rules for Destiny Board and Vennominaga be?
Destiny Board clearly isn't broken (and would keep the zones clogged up), and Vennominaga isn't broken with or without its instant win effect, so why ban them?
As I mentioned, Exodius is impossible to instant-win with thanks to the banning of Exodia the Forbidden One (and unlimiting of its pieces).

[Mysty]

Bump. Anybody else have any comments?

What do you think the meta tag will be (if any)?

So far, Infernity seems to be an excellent front duelist. What about the others?
NOTE This will be under the assumption that instant win conditions other than Exodius will be banned and the Exodia limbs will be unlimited.

[shadowferret]

Maybe a Machina Deck to follow up? Machina Fortress is easy to get out first turn, so it wouldn't be too hard to work around the opponent's field advantage. Also, Solidarity wouldn't be hindered since graveyards don't carry over. If Fortress dies and the player's life points go to zero, there's the added bonus of being able to destroy a would-be obstacle for the next player.

[Mysty]

[quote name='shadowferret' timestamp='1288667444' post='4756306']
Maybe a Machina Deck to follow up? Machina Fortress is easy to get out first turn, so it wouldn't be too hard to work around the opponent's field advantage. Also, Solidarity wouldn't be hindered since graveyards don't carry over. If Fortress dies and the player's life points go to zero, there's the added bonus of being able to destroy a would-be obstacle for the next player.
[/quote]

Problem with Solidarity:
If your opponent can manage to kill your opponent without destroying one of the monsters, that monster continues to your field. When it goes to the Graveryard, it will go to YOUR Graveyard, wrecking your Solidarity.

Machina looks like an amazing option, though. Third deck choice?

[Kaisu]

You need 3 different themes with synergy.

And manage to share the staples.

[Or you can go Team Unicorn style ;D]

[Mysty]

[quote name='Kaisu' timestamp='1288674564' post='4756460']
You need 3 different themes with synergy.

And manage to share the staples.

[Or you can go Team Unicorn style ;D]
[/quote]

Personally, I think that Team Unicorn style sucked. One was sorta RFP Beastdown, the next was Beast Mill, and the last was Direct Damage Beastdown deck + capability of mill.
The three Polar Gods were amazing together. Then again, their revival has a new limitation that makes them not as compatible and not as broken. Either way, they were all God Beatdown decks, so they worked together.

I do agree with the general statement made above: you need three different themes with synergy. However, I consider not having the previous deck's weaknesses to be the goal of highest priority of the second and third decks.

[Kaisu]

Wait, does only the field pass on with the tag?

[Tag, because instead of a baton, they use a sticker in the WRGP ;D]

[Azuh]

[quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1288675858' post='4756482']
Personally, I think that Team Unicorn style sucked.
[/quote]

Its better than having a Synchron, Beatdown and Blackwing line-up though >_>

[Mysty]

[quote name='Kaisu' timestamp='1288681493' post='4756562']
Wait, does only the field pass on with the tag?

[Tag, because instead of a baton, they use a sticker in the WRGP ;D]
[/quote]

Correct. Only the Field passes, not the Graveyard. While this dues help Solidarity, any monsters brought over to your field will go into your graveyard, ruining your Solidarity.
If your opponent is running burn or stall, it's quite likely that you could get monsters that affect your Solidarity. However, with Final Countdown mostly likely getting banned, Stall doesn't allow for that kind of victory
Do remember that, in this format, there is a lot less effective S/T destruction (only 2 MST, 3 Double Cyclone, 3 Dust Tornado, etc.), so Stall could be an effective strategy. Just remember it won't be using Exosia or Final Countdown.

And what should be the final standing for Vennominaga and Destiny Board? We've already decided that Exodia should be banned, the normal limbs should be unlimited, Last Turn is already banned, Exodius is left alone since his victory condition is no longer possible, and Final Countdown should be banned.
However, there are still two non-banworthy victory conditions left: Vennominaga and Destiny Board.

What should be the standing of these? Well, let's analyze the cards themselves in this format, what's problematic, and how their problem can be ruled with banning them:

[b]Vennominaga[/b]
• a monster that gains 500 ATK and DEF for every Reptile in your Graveyard and has blanket immunity, as well as the ability to resurrect itself if destroyed in battle by removing a Reptile from the Graveyard (and lowering its points). Its instant win ability is rarely used in favor of its high ATK points in a dedicated deck.
• requires a Vennominon (who cannot be special summoned out of the deck by Mystic Tomato and has the same ATK as Vennominaga) to be destroyed by a card effect and Rise of the Snake Deity to be activated.
• if Vennominaga gets big enough, the only way to take it down is with Lava Golem or Volcanic Queen, which cannot be stopped in any way. There is also the option of removing Reptiles from the opponent's Graveyard
• will most likely only be able to be run in one deck, since you'll probably need at least 2 Vennominaga and 2 Rise of the Snake Deity to be stable.
• won't do too much for your partner if passed to your partner, since they start with no graveyard. They could rectify this by using Snake Rain, but if your teammate has Snake Rain, why aren't you using it? How in the world did your opponent not get rid of Vennominaga and proceed to win?
• a deck of all reptiles won't screw up another deck of all reptiles, but then they'd have to share the Viper's Rebirth.

Overall, I don't find Vennominaga troublesome at all. Perhaps, instead of banning it, a ruling could be issued like this:
• When you win with Vennominaga's effect, instead your opponent loses. When an opponent loses, remove all Hyper-Venom Counters from all Vennominagas you control. This event doesn't trigger anything else to happen.

Or like this:
• When you win with Vennominaga's effect, instead your opponent loses and you remove all Hyper-Venom Counters from Vennominaga. This event doesn't trigger anything else to happen.

This ruling would allow for some tricky comboing, so I suggest the first ruling.

[b]Destiny Board[/b]
• Every opponent's turn, you get another Spirit Message that takes up a space in your S/T. When you activate four specific Spirit Messages this way (taking up all your spaces) you win. However, if Destiny Board or any Spirit Message leaves the field, all the other cards are sent to the Graveyard. There is no way to speed up the board's process.
• this card takes up 4 of your opponent's turns to win, completely exposed and lowering your ability to defend yourself each turn. Not to mention your field will be full when you have won.
• with a decreased amount of S/T destruction, winning with this could actually be quite easy. Just use the Final Countdown system of defending yourself and you could win.
• a passed on Destiny Board can allow your teammates to build the rest of the message, perhaps making Destiny Board a lot easier to build.

Let's issue one of the following rulings to fix the problem:
• When you would win the game using Destiny Board's effect, instead your opponent loses and Destiny Board's effect that says you win the game is negated as long as Destiny Board is on the field. Splendid Venus cannot prevent this negation, nor can temporarily negating Destiny Board remove this self-negation. The board stays, clogging your field.
• When you would win the game using Destiny Board's effect, instead your opponent loses the game and Destiny Board and all its pieces are sent to the Graveyard. Nothing triggers because of this.

We may even need to issue this additional ruling if needed:
•if your opponent loses by means other than Destiny Board, send all Destiny Boards and Spirit Messages you control to the Graveyard.

Some people might complain "but this card is just like Exodia!". To that I say "no, this is not like Exodia for the following reasons:
• with Exodia, you could reveal your hand for the win, use one of many ways to get a piece of out your hand, and then put it back and you win again. At least, that's what some people say you can do. You can't do this with Destiny Board: once a letter leaves, the rest collapses. There is also no way you can put the piece back in time to win again.
• this works on the field, making it much more susceptible to destruction. In addition, the deck must be built void of other Spells and Traps other than Threatening Roar, Waboku, etc. As I said, the Final Countdown build would probably work best, but without Final Countdown and with Destiny Board.
• the rulings issues will determine how loosely this card can be used. If the first ruling is put into place, then Destiny Board will probably clog the zones forever, leaving that kind of strategy probably to the last duelist. If the second ruling is put into place, then it will be easier to use. That extra ruling is only because I'd like to give all opponents 4 turns to beat Destiny Board. Then again, a Destiny Board deck probably wouldn't have a beatdown theme, and all the beatsticks from the previous duelist would probably have been eliminated already, so a Destiny Board deck winning by means other than Destiny Board would be quite impressive.

Overall, I can understand Destiny Board MAYBE being banworthy or just too much a hassle to deal with the rulings, but Vennominaga without question should stay in the format.

[Father Wolf]

Grand Prix Duels actually sounds challenging with staples having to be shared and the need to share some need 3 cards like Duality would be hard. And the format would be balanced unlike TAG Duels *Cough* Chain Burn */Cough* because no 2 decks would be alike... but i dont think Decree Scraps, X-Sabers, and Sphere of Chaos would be such a great team.

[-Berserker-]

The first player of each team should main at least 1 of these
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Charge

[Mysty]

[quote name='Saikano' timestamp='1288736080' post='4757768']
The first player of each team should main at least 1 of these
http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Soul_Charge
[/quote]

Dude, we're talking real life. That's an anime-only card.
That couldn't even be used by the first wheeler in the anime because it isn't a Speed Spell.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

This is terribly written. Judging by Hong Kong being near the beginning, I would assume that it's a terrible translation from Chinese like every garage door installation instruction manual...

[-Berserker-]

What if you lose by having your Giant Rat attacked by your opponent? You lose a duel when you take damage; before it being sent to the graveyard. Then it would be sent to the graveyard after the end of the duel, so your partner would have a chance to use it's effect, and it would be his/her turn, right?