Butterfly Dagger - Elma

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[img]http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/File:ButterflyDagger-ElmaDCR-EN-SR-UE.jpg#file[/img]

Should be @1 or more. I haven't tested with more, but @1, and even with Hidden Armory, the combo is massively inconsistent.
[color="#FF0000"][size="7"]
EDIT: I just noticed something I hadn't before. You can't do the OTK if you use Hidden Armory. In my tests I forgot Hidden Armory's conditions and it was still bad. So you have to draw into an @1 card and some other jank. Yeah, this is even worse.[/size][/color]

[Sephiroth_The_Legend]

Not to mention very easily stopped.

D.D Crow and Skull Meister both easily negate it and if you run Macro, then yeah.....

[~British Soul~]

probably one of the worst @0 cards in the game imo

[sebihp2007]

"I can counter this so it's not OP"? Yea, right ..

The reason why it's @0 isn't that .. It's only because of the Gearfiend + Butterfly combo ... which is overpowered for how easy it is to pull ..

[burnpsy]

It's a 2-card combo with both cards @4 (if Elma was @1).

That's stupid easy. :/

[Toffee.]

[quote name='sebihp2007' timestamp='1291135565' post='4820479']
The reason why it's @0 isn't that .. It's only because of the Gearfiend + Butterfly combo ... which is overpowered for how easy it is to pull ..
[/quote]
Butterfly Dagger pretty much [i]only[/i] works with Gearfried.

[sebihp2007]

[quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1291136258' post='4820493']
Butterfly Dagger pretty much [i]only[/i] works with Gearfried.
[/quote]

And that's the reason I have included "only" in my sentence ..

But think about how easy it is to pull Gearfriend out, together with Magical Library (for Infinite Hand), Magical Marionette (for infinite ATK + monster destruction), or any monster with Spell counters in general ..

Aside from that, does anyone think it looks awesome? o-o

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1291136164' post='4820491']
It's a 2-card combo with both cards @4 (if Elma was @1).

That's stupid easy. :/
[/quote]
No. It's a 3 card combo of many variants and most of those varients require having two monsters out. Which requires you to summon a monster that's bad on its own and protect it for one turn before continuing with the combo. It's really bad. And really counterable.

[sebihp2007]

[quote name='Purple Whatevers' timestamp='1291151010' post='4820901']
No. It's a 3 card combo of many variants and most of those varients require having two monsters out. Which requires you to summon a monster that's bad on its own and protect it for one turn before continuing with the combo. It's really bad. And really counterable.
[/quote]

Everything is counterable .. Null argument

Why would you have to "protect it for one turn"?
It's called Special Summon ..

And I'd say that having infinite hand (Magical Library + Combo) isn't really what you define as "bad" ..

Double Summon + Library + Gearfried + Dagger with Exodia in Deck is 99% win without an opponent's reaction?

Not to mention Gearfried can be searched for since he's a Warrior and a DARK monster, but hey, there we go ..

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

"You guys, because the combo is not easy to do on first turn it's not good. We should make Gearfried look like an overpowered card"

Seriously, the reason it's not at any number but 0 is because it abuses cards that otherwise are just okay or bad. And any 3-card combo that can win you the game is NOT needed in YGO. Even if it's supposedly "hard". It's actually quite easy to Special Summon monsters and activate a Spell Card.

D.D. Crow is useless if you never draw it, and a card having a couple of counters to it is not balanced because of that.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='sebihp2007' timestamp='1291151921' post='4820937']
Everything is counterable .. Null argument
[b]Super Poly isn't counterable.[/b]
Why would you have to "protect it for one turn"?
[b]So you could have them both out?[/b]
It's called Special Summon ..
[b]I can't think of a way to do this other than Monster Reborn and Foolish Burial but that's really inconsistent. Summoner Monk will summon one of the two cards but not both in the same turn.[/b]
And I'd say that having infinite hand (Magical Library + Combo) isn't really what you define as "bad" ..
[b]It is bad if you can't do anything with that infinite hand. If you ran Exodia or Blasting the Ruins or Magical Explosion cards to make an OTK, they would make the combo even more inconsistent by being dead in the hand.[/b]
Double Summon + Library + Gearfried + Dagger with Exodia in Deck is 99% win without an opponent's reaction?
[b]That makes it not a 3 card combo. And Exodia adds inconsistency by being dead in the hand. 99% win? Your opponent who mains Effect Veiler will draw that Effect Veiler more than 1% of the time, especially if they use two.[/b]
Not to mention Gearfried can be searched for since he's a Warrior and a DARK monster, but hey, there we go ..
[b]Gearfried is EARTH and RotA is @1. Besides, if you draw into RotA when you already have Gearfried, it's bad. Same goes with drawing Hidden Armory in multiples or with Dagger.[/b]
[/quote]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291153163' post='4820997']
"You guys, because the combo is not easy to do on first turn it's not good. We should make Gearfried look like an overpowered card"
[b]This sentence doesn't make sense so I'll disregard it.[/b]
Seriously, the reason it's not at any number but 0 is because it abuses cards that otherwise are just okay or bad.
[b]Abusing okay or bad cards makes it good? What if it abused good cards that were otherwise balanced? How would that be any different.[/b]
And any 3-card combo that can win you the game is NOT needed in YGO.
[b]3 cards that aren't easy to have on the field at once.[/b]
Even if it's supposedly "hard". It's actually quite easy to Special Summon monsters and activate a Spell Card.
[b]Even if I disregard the grammatical mistakes, this is wrong. If you can tell me a consistent way to get both Gearfried and RML out and then grab Elma, I'll reconsider. Of course, you could use Spell Absorbtion over it, but that's just for infinite life which isn't as cool as straight up winning.[/b]
[b]Abusing okay or bad cards makes it good? What if it abused good cards that were otherwise balanced? How would that be any different.[/b]
D.D. Crow is useless if you never draw it, and a card having a couple of counters to it is not balanced because of that.
[b]Didn't say it did make the combo balanced. I said it makes it worse. And D.D. Crow isn't the only thing. MST, Effect Veiler, Cold Wave, things that people already main can block this.[/b]
[/quote]
My responses to both in bold.

I WON DA ARGUMENT.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

[quote name='Purple Whatevers' timestamp='1291155972' post='4821084']
This sentence doesn't make sense so I'll disregard it.
Abusing okay or bad cards makes it good? What if it abused good cards that were otherwise balanced? How would that be any different.
3 cards that aren't easy to have on the field at once.
Even if I disregard the grammatical mistakes, this is wrong. If you can tell me a consistent way to get both Gearfried and RML out and then grab Elma, I'll reconsider. Of course, you could use Spell Absorbtion over it, but that's just for infinite life which isn't as cool as straight up winning.
Didn't say it did make the combo balanced. I said it makes it worse. And D.D. Crow isn't the only thing. MST, Effect Veiler, Cold Wave, things that people already main can block this.
[/quote]
1- It does make sense. You just don't want it to.
2-No, it's the fact that it abuses cards that shouldn't be bannable in an a way that makes them look banable. This is why a lot of cards are banned. Rescue Cat can be used for insane combos with Air, when Air is just an okay card on its own.
3-Refer to my previous post of how monsters are able to be Special Summoned. There does not have to be an instant summon of a card for it to be an overpowered combination. Especially when one of the components has 2000 DEF and one has 1800 ATK. And even if you had to take 2 turns, it's a 3-card 2TK, which still isn't good.
4-See above.
...-Lots of banned cards could be stopped by Effect Veiler, Battle Fader, etc, but they are all still banned. Just because a card has a counter does not mean it's any less powerful. In fact, almost everything has a counter, but they're still considered powerful/good cards in their own respects.

+ Elma would never be used for its original purposes, which means that the card itself is literally being abused. This is one reason why the card "Sixth Sense" in the OCG was banned as well. A card not being used for its purposes is pointless to exist.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291156702' post='4821112']
1- It does make sense. You just don't want it to.
[b]No, I really want it to make sense so I can argue with you more. Please explain it.[/b]
2-No, it's the fact that it abuses cards that shouldn't be bannable in an a way that makes them look banable. This is why a lot of cards are banned. Rescue Cat can be used for insane combos with Air, when Air is just an okay card on its own.
[b]Let's say some broken combo comes out that involves Volcanic Rocket, an insanely balanced card. The new card would be banned just like Rescue Cat was. This is the same situation except it involves a good card. But, this is completely unrelated to the subject that originated the argument so let's drop it now.[/b]
3-Refer to my previous post of how monsters are able to be Special Summoned. There does not have to be an instant summon of a card for it to be an overpowered combination. Especially when one of the components has 2000 DEF and one has 1800 ATK. And even if you had to take 2 turns, it's a 3-card 2TK, which still isn't good.
[b]Yes but you said the thing about the Special Summoning which when used in the way you did implies that you can Special Summon one of the monsters while Normal Summoning the other which would only be good if it's consistent and there is no consistent way that I know of. All summons are instant. You put the card on the field and then it's there, instantly. Their stats don't matter because they'll be able to set traps that will counter the rest of your combo. Look at all of the Traps run in current builds. You'll be screwed. You'll get hit by either Solemn, a Bottomless, or something similar. The reason FTKs are actually a tad playable is because you can do stuff before they can set their cards and counter you. Plus, most of them don't Summon at all so even if they lose the die roll they can't be Solemn Warning'd or Bottomless'd. Counters don't make an OTK, FTK, or 2TK bad, they just make it worse. And when you're talking about a 2TK, there is a larger pool of typically mained cards that will stop this. And then there's the huge chance that you won't even draw it.[/b]
4-See above.
...-Lots of banned cards could be stopped by Effect Veiler, Battle Fader, etc, but they are all still banned. Just because a card has a counter does not mean it's any less powerful. In fact, almost everything has a counter, but they're still considered powerful/good cards in their own respects.
[b]Both of those weren't around when (most of) those cards got banned and almost Nobody mains Fader. Konami doesn't think ahead when it comes to cards able to be unbanned. For instance, with Rescue Cat banned, Summoner Monk can be @3. So counters don't make cards ANY less powerful? Return is terrible this format and thus a really good example. You pay half of your life points and then your opponent plays Solemn, Trap Stun, Decree, etc (or even Burial if they play a deck that mains it). It's a good card but this format it sucks because of counters. Isn't that an interesting story?[/b]
+ Elma would never be used for its original purposes, which means that the card itself is literally being abused.
[b]It won't be abused because the deck is bad. You see, you're acting on pure speculation but I'm speaking after testing the deck. Test it. Then come back here with your results. M'kay?[/b]
This is one reason why the card "Sixth Sense" in the OCG was banned as well. A card not being used for its purposes is pointless to exist.
[b]Not being used for its purpose? Sixth Sense's purpose is obvious. You gain massive advantage. That's the purpose of the card. Also, 'useless' cards like Larvae Moth can be used for trolling and coasters so they then aren't useless.[/b]
[/quote]
I WON AGAIN

[Writertrash]

I vote for [b]Purple Whatevers[/b].

He wins the topic.

Note- Purple Whatever's didn't Alt-Account this account, I'm one of his friends, and I don't remeber the password or email I used for the last account, so I made a new one.

[Zeppeli Gyro Supreme]

Please stop putting your responses in my own quote. It makes it extremely more difficult to respond to your posts, as well as extremely confusing to sift through.

The fact that you say that the cards weren't around at that time is invalid, as the cards are around now and could easily be returned if said counter were considered a viable way of making the combination "worse". Counters are not a way of making a combo worse, unless the combo itself provided a counter to the opponent (Such as if it relied on Magic Drain). You can't expect people to have cards all based on stopping one deck type, or have those cards at all. You shouldn't HAVE to run cards to make a combo not broken.

Sixth Sense was being abused in the sense that it was supposed to be a draw card where the user guessed the number it would land on, and if they were right they would be rewarded. However, everyone would either pick 1 or 6 depending on their purposes. Nobody would use the card the way it was created to be used. It was also because of poor card design, in addition to its large ability to be abused this way. Same goes for Butterfly Dagger. They designed it to be used a certain way, but realized that it was poorly designed and could be abused heavily. And if it was a good enough card to be banned back then, I feel there should never be a reason it should come back. The format should change before a broken combination is considered viable.

I'm going to finish up my end of the debate with this: 3-card winning combinations should never be allowed, even if they're not able to be pulled off "easily in one turn". The combination in this case isn't all that difficult to achieve, especially when considering you only need 3 components, 2 of which would be at 3, and in opening hand you would have 3 other cards to use to achieve the combo with. Again, before this combination is considered slow enough to come back, I would hope that there would be a large number of cards they're banning.

I'm finishing it there because I don't want this to become a heated argument. You can state your own points, but please don't turn this into a competition or insult my own person if and when you do so, as such things tend to devolve to.

[Black W Mage]

HOLY CRAP! Like, if this card were unbanned, everyone would be running Exodia! There would be no stopping it. No Side Deck can prevent it. and the consistency of it is overwhelming! You cannot overpower the high defence of Royal Magical Library, and Certainly you could never negate the summon of Gearfried.

[evilfusion]

Guys, Butterfly Dagger isn't overpowered on its own. In fact, it's downright pathetic. Gearfried isn't overpowered on its own. None of the cards in the Butterfly Dagger combo are broken on their own. But together, they can do things that were not intended. Namely, all the loops involving it.

Without all the components of the combo, the cards are nothing special. But to allow all the components allows, however slim it may be, for someone to utilize that combo and screw up the game. Solution: Ban one of the cards. The decision came down to which card to hit.

Butterfly Dagger has the inherent effect that allowed the loop, namely, returning to the hand when destroyed. Gearfried has the inherent effect of destroying equips. It's a 1800/1600 Earth Warrior with some support later released, and Butterfly Dagger's only support is Guardian Elma, which is also horrible. To not ban a card on the virtue it has support is arguing that Temple of the Kings shouldn't be banned because Mystical Beast Serket becomes useless.

Dagger got banned because it's the card that permits the loop to flourish. Barring another card released that makes Gearfried broken enough to ban it instead, it's going to stay there. Neither can exist while the other's unbanned. It's probably the weakest card on the banned list, but there's a good reason it's banned.

[The Great Wolf Sif]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1291169833' post='4821613']
Guys, Butterfly Dagger isn't overpowered on its own. In fact, it's downright pathetic. Gearfried isn't overpowered on its own. None of the cards in the Butterfly Dagger combo are broken on their own. But together, they can do things that were not intended. Namely, all the loops involving it.

Without all the components of the combo, the cards are nothing special. But to allow all the components allows, however slim it may be, for someone to utilize that combo and screw up the game. Solution: Ban one of the cards. The decision came down to which card to hit.

Butterfly Dagger has the inherent effect that allowed the loop, namely, returning to the hand when destroyed. Gearfried has the inherent effect of destroying equips. It's a 1800/1600 Earth Warrior with some support later released, and Butterfly Dagger's only support is Guardian Elma, which is also horrible. To not ban a card on the virtue it has support is arguing that Temple of the Kings shouldn't be banned because Mystical Beast Serket becomes useless.

Dagger got banned because it's the card that permits the loop to flourish. Barring another card released that makes Gearfried broken enough to ban it instead, it's going to stay there. Neither can exist while the other's unbanned. It's probably the weakest card on the banned list, but there's a good reason it's banned.
[/quote]
Agreed

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='slayer_supreme' timestamp='1291167176' post='4821490']
Please stop putting your responses in my own quote. It makes it extremely more difficult to respond to your posts, as well as extremely confusing to sift through.
[color="#FF0000"]Cool story, bro.[/color]
The fact that you say that the cards weren't around at that time is invalid, as the cards are around now and could easily be returned if said counter were considered a viable way of making the combination "worse".
[color="#FF0000"]No. Konami is stupid. See the thing about Summoner Monk.[/color]
Counters are not a way of making a combo worse, unless the combo itself provided a counter to the opponent (Such as if it relied on Magic Drain). You can't expect people to have cards all based on stopping one deck type, or have those cards at all. You shouldn't HAVE to run cards to make a combo not broken.
[color="#FF0000"]I didn't say I expected it. But almost everybody (good) mains the cards I mentioned. Even if I shouldn't have to, I can still use the cards that I [b]already main[/b] and counter it.[/color]
Sixth Sense was being abused in the sense that it was supposed to be a draw card where the user guessed the number it would land on, and if they were right they would be rewarded. However, everyone would either pick 1 or 6 depending on their purposes.
[color="#FF0000"]That's the point of the card... You pick numbers and you plus. The card practically says so in the effect box. That's like saying butter wasn't meant to be put on toast.[/color]
Nobody would use the card the way it was created to be used. It was also because of poor card design, in addition to its large ability to be abused this way.
[color="#FF0000"]Nah just poor card design. If Konami was good at card design they would have thought of the way it would be used. The Butterfly Dagger + Gearfried thing isn't as obvious.[/color]
Same goes for Butterfly Dagger. They designed it to be used a certain way, but realized that it was poorly designed and could be abused heavily. And if it was a good enough card to be banned back then, I feel there should never be a reason it should come back. The format should change before a broken combination is considered viable.
[color="#FF0000"]Injection Fairy Lily was once banned. I don't think it should have ever come back.[/color]
I'm going to finish up my end of the debate with this: 3-card winning combinations should never be allowed, even if they're not able to be pulled off "easily in one turn".
[color="#FF0000"]You quit because you knew you would lose a round later. Okay. So. Judgment Dragon+Judgment Dragon+Guardian of Order is an example of a 3 card winning combination, but you don't see everybody playing it. Do you not want it to be allowed?[/color]
The combination in this case isn't all that difficult to achieve, especially when considering you only need 3 components, 2 of which would be at 3, and in opening hand you would have 3 other cards to use to achieve the combo with.
[color="#FF0000"]Shut up and test the deck than have a chat with me.[/color]
Again, before this combination is considered slow enough to come back, I would hope that there would be a large number of cards they're banning.
[color="#FF0000"]What? If they banned a bunch of stuff this might actually be good because there wouldn't be a good meta. Also, again doesn't work because you never mentioned that.[/color]
I'm finishing it there because I don't want this to become a heated argument. You can state your own points, but please don't turn this into a competition or insult my own person if and when you do so, as such things tend to devolve to.
[color="#FF0000"]We're both stating our own points. And you can state yours too, but then I'll just tell you why you're wrong. I'm not insulting you (I don't think, idk don't wanna read all of my posts...)[/color]
[/quote]

[quote name='Red W Mage' timestamp='1291169480' post='4821595']
HOLY CRAP! Like, if this card were unbanned, everyone would be running Exodia!
[color="#FF0000"]Except me. I would run, idk, a good deck depending on the format and have like 3 Effect Veilers and a bunch of other stuff and beat them all. Then, they'd all stop playing the deck.[/color]
There would be no stopping it.
[color="#FF0000"]Yes there would.[/color]
No Side Deck can prevent it.
[color="#FF0000"]Yes it can.[/color]
and the consistency of it is overwhelming!
[color="#FF0000"]Not really...[/color]
You cannot overpower the high defence of Royal Magical Library, and Certainly you could never negate the summon of Gearfried.
[color="#FF0000"]This leads me to believe you're being sarcastic and I didn't realize this before replying because I was replying as I read it.[/color]
[/quote]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1291169833' post='4821613']
Guys, Butterfly Dagger isn't overpowered on its own. In fact, it's downright pathetic. Gearfried isn't overpowered on its own. None of the cards in the Butterfly Dagger combo are broken on their own. But together, they can do things that were not intended. Namely, all the loops involving it.
[color="#FF0000"]Agreed.[/color]
Without all the components of the combo, the cards are nothing special. But to allow all the components allows, however slim it may be, for someone to utilize that combo and screw up the game.
[color="#FF0000"]It does allow this.[/color]
Solution: Ban one of the cards. The decision came down to which card to hit.
[color="#FF0000"]No. You just need to limit Elma. Remember how everybody was like "IF KONAMI DOESN'T BAN INFERNITY LAUNCHER IM GONNA KILL MYSELF." They limited it. People were pissed. But Infernities are now a playable, balanced, and definitely not top tier deck. Banning Launcher would have made them really unplayable.[/color]
Butterfly Dagger has the inherent effect that allowed the loop, namely, returning to the hand when destroyed. Gearfried has the inherent effect of destroying equips. It's a 1800/1600 Earth Warrior with some support later released, and Butterfly Dagger's only support is Guardian Elma, which is also horrible. To not ban a card on the virtue it has support is arguing that Temple of the Kings shouldn't be banned because Mystical Beast Serket becomes useless.
[color="#FF0000"]I would agree with this if I agreed that Elma should be banned.[/color]
Dagger got banned because it's the card that permits the loop to flourish. Barring another card released that makes Gearfried broken enough to ban it instead, it's going to stay there. Neither can exist while the other's unbanned. It's probably the weakest card on the banned list, but there's a good reason it's banned.
[color="#FF0000"]They can exist together off of the banlist. Even without me going all technical and saying I own a copy of each therefore they both exist, the combo is not consistent. At all.[/color]
[/quote]


Basically, guys, test the deck. You are going off of pure speculation. I'm speaking from experience. I had the same opinion as all of you until one day I decided to test a few banned cards. And I tested Elma in its rightful deck and it blew. I lost to every opponent in WC10. I mean, that game has bad decks played by bad players.

EDIT: Read the OP again.

[burnpsy]

Infernity Launcher is a different matter entirely. Last I checked, its original use was a combo that required you to go through all 3 copies in your deck. Limiting it doesn't allow that.

[evilfusion]

In that case, Konami is erring on the side of caution by leaving cards banned unless their value to the game is diminished to the point they can be tested for a format. This is why Dark Hole is off, and Heavy on. I actually lke the meta much more this way than when Heavy was legal, but that's just my opinion.

Chaos Sorcerer was banned, then limited, now semi'd. It used to be broken, was tested, viewed as too little a threat to warrant restricted placement and bumped off.

Elma wont get this treatment because it was ONLY good in the loop and has no other purpose. Therefore Konami has no reason to test its impact like they did with Chaos Sorcerer, Cyber Dragon, Dandylion and other banned/limited cards that we all wonder why they were ever listed in the first place.

[Brandon Michael Geren]

[quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1291177575' post='4821800']
In that case, Konami is erring on the side of caution by leaving cards banned unless their value to the game is diminished to the point they can be tested for a format. This is why Dark Hole is off, and Heavy on. I actually lke the meta much more this way than when Heavy was legal, but that's just my opinion.

Chaos Sorcerer was banned, then limited, now semi'd. It used to be broken, was tested, viewed as too little a threat to warrant restricted placement and bumped off.

Elma wont get this treatment because it was ONLY good in the loop and has no other purpose. Therefore Konami has no reason to test its impact like they did with Chaos Sorcerer, Cyber Dragon, Dandylion and other banned/limited cards that we all wonder why they were ever listed in the first place.
[/quote]
They have no reason to, but I'm saying that they SHOULD unban it because I'd love to be at that first locals of the format (or even second and third) where people played the deck and lost to me playing whatever didn't get hit by the banlist.

[evilfusion]

You must not quite recognize the significance of "having a reason to". With all stories and in RL, motivation to do anything is crucial to DOING anything. Heroes will not usually fight evil because they should. They do it because they have either some genuine obligation or they have a deeper motivation ranging from emotional satisfaction/vengeance, or personal gain with moral lining.

Konami has no reason to unban a card that's only purpose to the game is a loop exploited in FTKs. Whether or not the card is still a threat is irrelevent. Unbanning serves no purpose, so they have no reason to do it. The combo that banned it is still there, untouched except for itself.

Everyone seems to think that Konami is one single entity that just throws darts at a dartboard to decide what gets banned or unbanned. I doubt what gets banned/limited/unbanned/semi'd is left to one or two people. There are probably a lot of people who have some vote or say in the decision, and it takes a lot of analysis of how it may affect the meta, how something may be considered excessive, or what is no longer relevent enough to stay banned. Butterfly Dagger will not contribute anything, and it will only be used for the FTK/OTK loops that Konami is so against.

Until a genuine reason to unban it exists beyond "they should because it's not a threat", which in itself is false, (It's not consistent, necessarily, but it IS a threat. The loop still exists and can be exploited) the card will stay banned. We should just accept that and try to forget the card even exists.

[sebihp2007]

Hey, slayer, give it up.. you can't beat the trolls .. ever ..

Just for the notes: The Gearfried -- Dagger combo is a 2-card combo .. Then, you can use any card with Spell Counters to abuse it ..

[quote]I actually lke the meta much more this way than when Heavy was legal, but that's just my opinion.
[/quote]

If you would allow me to go off-topic, the Meta there as a LOT more strategic: now you can just about set 4 traps at the same time and fear not (expects to be given an example of a card that can ruin my sentence which is completely impracticable in any other situation). As for Hole getting allowed, that makes no sense whatsoever ..

[evilfusion]

My opinion is that forcing both players to find different ways to bypass Traps rather than a lucksacky draw is better strategy than the former. And I might not LIKE Dark Hole, but I don't despise it, either. It punishes swarm for not winning that turn, and limits stalling too much.