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Let's Fix The Banlist.

Yeezus

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Flame Dragon Enthusiast

Flame Dragon

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[quote name='Darkest Hour' timestamp='1295594276' post='4948370']
Not all removal cards revolve around "destroy X". Some of them send cards back to the hand, some topdeck, some remove from play. It just matters on what type of removal the opposing deck has prepared. If it consists of nothing but "destroy X", then it's a shame for them. On the other hand, Stardust Dragon is one of the most effective and accessible forms of destruction protection out there. Removing a protection option from the [b]handful of generic synchros[/b] leaves you with very few options to protect yourself from inevitable removal.
[/quote]
I know that you can play around Stardust, the problem is that, last I check (and to be fair it was a while ago) straight destruction is (or was) the most common way to take care of a card. Hell, some remove from play cards don't even work like Bottomless since the word destroy is on the card. Made even worse is that while you might be able to kill the Stardust I can't think of many mass removal spells that can get around Star so the overextension without fear is still an issue.

What is wrong with destruction? Destruction is a natural part of the game and the best answer to allow people that fall behind to come back by destroying the opponents big creature. As I said before, hosing the main form of card removal shouldn't be as easy as, "I play this card and now you can't destroy." And really if you don't like destruction run counter spells. Stardust is just the easy answer to destruction, but it's far from the only one.


Last I checked we have a good number of generic synchro, and a fair number of those that aren't don't force you to jump though a hoop you wouldn't be jumping though anyway for your synchro.
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-Griffin Newbie

-Griffin

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[quote name='Champion Lance' timestamp='1295646472' post='4949297']
okay.

So who agrees that Rescue Cat should be at 3?
[/quote]

ofc, we should only ban broken targets. It's balanced if it doesn't have anything it interacts brokenly with. On that note, we should ban all monsters that it's broken for Witch of the Black Forest to search so it can come back.
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Canadian Newbie

Canadian

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[quote name='kingdom Neos' timestamp='1295650448' post='4949436']
Why was this card banned again all the banning did was make neo bubbleman useless
[/quote]
Why were the envoy's banned again, all the banning did was make Primal Seed useless.

Sarcasm aside, I'd like to try it at one even though I'm asking for trouble. (:
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Mysty Newbie

Mysty

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[quote name='kingdom Neos' timestamp='1295650448' post='4949436']
Why was Metamorphosis banned again all the banning did was make neo bubbleman useless
[/quote]
Metal Reflect Slime + Metamorphosis = Cyber End Dragon
Level 8 + Metamorphosis = Cyber Twin Dragon

I think these are the main reasons. IThousand-Eyes Restrict is already banned, so TER isn't a problem.
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burnpsy Newbie

burnpsy

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[quote name='Mystery Guest' timestamp='1295668693' post='4950026']
Metal Reflect Slime + Metamorphosis = Cyber End Dragon
Level 8 + Metamorphosis = Cyber Twin Dragon

I think these are the main reasons. IThousand-Eyes Restrict is already banned, so TER isn't a problem.
[/quote]

What's quite sad is that the plays you just listed aren't game-breaking anymore. Not in the slightest.

It could easily return.
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Mysty Newbie

Mysty

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[quote name='burnpsy' timestamp='1295668898' post='4950043']
What's quite sad is that the plays you just listed aren't game-breaking anymore. Not in the slightest.

It could easily return.
[/quote]

Well, he asked why it was banned. Those were the reasons it was banned.

TER is banned anyway, so, yeah, I could approve of that, I suppose. I still think at least Cyber Twin Dragon is banworthy though. Cyber End Dragon perhaps not.
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Mysty Newbie

Mysty

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[quote name=':: -OmeGa DeviL- ::' timestamp='1295727494' post='4952238']
Placido and I are spamming in Placido's banlist fix thread
[/quote]

I think that fix summarizes the change-quote thing going on.

Just to get the topic back on topic, I'll just post a bunch of changes that I honestly probably didn't really think through, just to give people food for thought:

[u][b]Banned[/b][/u]:
[b]Dark Hole[/b] - one card could easily allow for a +2 even with your opponent only having three monsters on the board. Many times it gets played, it's a Raigeki, and Raigeki is banworthy, so this should follow suit. A version with higher cost (such as Lightning Vortex) allows for the same purpose to be fulfilled.
[b]Goyo Guardian[/b] - an easy to summon 2800 ATKer that takes other monsters if it destroys them by battle? Are you kidding?
[b]Exodia the Forbidden One[/b] - it's a brainless lucksack card to play. Heck, the first time it was ever used in the anime it was used as a lucksack draw out of an otherwise obvious loss. The limbs can serve a purpose in Normal.dek, but the effectg monster has less use. Ban it and unlimit the other pieces.
[b]Morphing Jar[/b] - it can easily be anywhere from a +5 to a -5. The user, however, will probably know to set all their S/T when they set Morphing Jar. It also leads to dangerous combos with Protector of the Sanctuary.
[b]Mind Control[/b] - steals a monster for Synchro food

[u][b]Limited[/b][/u]:
[b]Magician of Faith[/b] - if the banworthy spells are taken away, then this card is fine. If all the banworthy spells aren't taken away, maybe this could be experimented with? At one, its consistency and number of times its effect can be used are both severely weakened.
[b]Honest[/b] - with only one, it can't be used in tangent with itself to inflict a lot of damage from one battle. Heck, maybe this should even be banned due to appearing from the hand

[u][b]Unlimited[/b][/u]:
[b]Mystical Space Typhoon[/b] - it's only 1-for-1 destruction at instant speed. It isn't really that harmful. It isn't usually if ever more than a 0 and can be a minus if used against a chainable trap.
[b]Magical Stone Evacuation[/b] - has anyone even seen this card recently? It's a -2 that fishes back an old spell. It's the same thing with magician of Faith: if all the banworthy spells are taken away, then this can get higher on the list
[b]Skill Drain[/b] - why was this even semi'd? To stop the rise of decks like SkillTown? Overall, seems unnecessary. I'm sure bringing it back to 3 won't destroy the meta.
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Mysty Newbie

Mysty

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[quote name='Placido.' timestamp='1295730095' post='4952339']
Mystery Guest why aren't you banning cold wave and reborn and read the OP
[/quote]

I saw Cold Wave and Monster reborn already on the list. I figured that was implied and didn't need any more explanation.

As I said, I was mainly just trying to get this topic back on topic with some food for thought. I literally came up with that list of ideas in less than 5 minutes. If you so wish, I'll elaborate on some of all of them if you so wish.
Those ideas were just some of my new ideas. A good portion of my other ones I left in another post earlier in the thread.
I didn't post all my ideas either. As I said, I just tried to get the topic back on topic rather than on the flame war it was currently on.
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