OnSlaUghT Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1309053315' post='5310929'] Then it's still more than two dollars [/quote] Touche. But at least MTG decks would be cheaper, right??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Nothing Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='OnSlaUghT' timestamp='1309053990' post='5310960'] Touche. But at least MTG decks would be cheaper, right??? [/quote] same price, but you get 20 more cards. Sadly, 25 of the cards you get are lands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1309054525' post='5310987'] same price, but you get 20 more cards. [b]Sadly, 25 of the cards you get are lands[/b] [/quote] would you prefer a landless deck? Then how the hell are you suppoused to play anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1309048042' post='5310767'] I don't wanna spend 200 bucks per format- [/quote] It depends on what tops, and whether a card is a "money card" or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flame Dragon Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1309048042' post='5310767'] Let me tell you a story. About a year or two ago my friends and I all ran different decks. One friend ran Blackwings, I ran Zombies, another one ran Lightsworn, and another ran Gladiators. So, next set, Raging Battle comes out. Black Whirlwind for Blackwing guy. Not much for the rest of us. Ancient Prophecy. Shinny Black C for LS guy's side board and Vayu for Blackwing guy. Absolute Power Force, we skip. Shining Darkness we skip. DREV we quit the game. The point is that unless you're willing to ditch your old deck and play an entirely different new broken deck of the format, there's no reason to keep playing competitively. LS in LoDT. Blackwings in Crimson Crisis. X-Sabers in some other pack. Infernity in something else. Legendary Six Samurai next. I don't wanna spend 200 bucks per format to play the new broken deck of the now, especially after having already paid 200-ish dollars for the past broken deck of the now. Konami frequently gives you the new cards to replace the old cards (usually the entire monster line up and a handful of s/t support) but then that means there are some cards you don't replace. The good cards, the common staples. Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute, Solemn, Bottomless, Monster Reborn, Brain Control, MST, Heavy Storm, Smashing Ground etc etc. It makes that 200+ dollar price tag just a little bit easier to swallow. So... yeah. Printing entirely new archetypes with entirely new support is cool and all, but if there's only one thing worth buying in the entire set, it jacks up the price tremendously. Coupled with the rarity issues, and it's even worse. combined with no support for pre-existing archetypes and you have to throw out your deck at the start of a new format, which is incredibly frustrating for players. The entrance fee to become a competitive player is pretty high, and to stay competitive for a year is pretty high as well. It's high because Konami makes terrible, terrible cards and one good card with a high rarity. The high price makes formerly dedicated players ragequit, or only play through DN or YVD or WC DS games or something. And... that's my story. =\ [/quote] I like this story because this is exactly what happen to me. While I never tried to be competitive I liked making deck but every time I would see a new set with almost no cards for any of my decks I would get sad. Then I found MTG and after yet another set of nothing for me I said screw it, this isn't worth my time and money any more and stopped. [quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1309052356' post='5310903'] YuGiOh is way more profitable than MTG. Most cards in MTG don't go above 2 bucks. [/quote] Yea, this is true. As I said only like 10 or so cards in the current standard format are over $15 and even good ones often top out around $30. However for older players a lot of cards are at the yugioh price range ($60) since they are on the "we will never reprint them" list. [quote name='OnSlaUghT' timestamp='1309053990' post='5310960'] Touche. But at least MTG decks would be cheaper, right??? [/quote] Over all I would say MTG is cheaper with any given good card being cheaper then yugioh. However since normally you need multiples of the best cards (here 4), and those are always the most expensive, if your trying do well in tournaments you still end up spending $200 on the deck. And since the formats actually rotate in MTG with older cards getting pushed out you often need to get more cards. Luckily MTG has tournaments about what you can build out of cards right from packs so those cost not to much to play in and get net you a sizable amount ($3500 for the win, $1000 for top 8, and lowest being $200 for 64th). Random question, and one not even really right for the thread, but w/e. What is the average high tier deck setting you back nowadays in yugioh and how much do you get for winning an event? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Nothing Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｓｕｐｐｒｅｓｓｉｏｎ ＰＬＵＴＯ' timestamp='1309057321' post='5311091'] would you prefer a landless deck? Then how the hell are you suppoused to play anything? [/quote] I was comparing prices. Through common third grade reading techniques, we learn that in the context of a situation where I am talking about which is more profitable, magic or yugioh, and with lands in magic being worth less than the cardboard they're printed on, we can tell that a magic deck costing the same as a yugioh deck is still not quite the same deal, since most of the cards are lands, which explains why it is at the price it is. Through common fourth grade reading techniques, we can then further understand that yugioh is more expensive than magic, since most magic decks come with a pack, more cards, and are around the same cost of a yugioh deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 You are quite funny...althought come on...you don't have to act like a smartass giving pseudo language classes to answer something that simple... And while we are at it...MTG Intro Packs aren't that comparable to Yugioh Structure Deck as they are to Yugioh Started Decks TBH...as in MTG Intro Packs are just meant to have new players try the different variant that the new set has to offer while keeping the strategies as simple as posible...adding an extra pack is a Bonus intended to as a second step into Introducing the costumer to the contructed play...and yet some Intros have brought up enough profitable cards to even increase the product value over the standard price due demand on barely 1/2 cards contained in them. Most likely Structure Deck in Yugioh are comparable with even Deck in MTG...and last time I've checked those...one contained 2 of this card that HAS TO BE EMERGENCY BANNED due to its broken playabilty in standard... Oh btw...one last thing I might be skipped...Yugioh Deck are quite more expensive...indeed...but all in all all yugioh is quite more expensive than MTG....except you play Vintage, Legacy coz of (As stated by Flame)...many cards are really old and are promised not to be reprinted anymore for price sake...BUT on the good side...the fact MTG and YUGIOH scalates different levels of pricing doesn't make them different in profiting in which I see they are sorta in the same level...depending the format you'll face... Oh and cheaper games are better than expensive ones...XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Nothing Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='Ｔｈｅ ｓｕｐｐｒｅｓｓｉｏｎ ＰＬＵＴＯ' timestamp='1309061003' post='5311244'] You are quite funny...althought come on...you don't have to act like a smartass giving pseudo language classes to answer something that simple... And while we are at it...MTG Intro Packs aren't that comparable to Yugioh Structure Deck as they are to Yugioh Started Decks TBH...as in MTG Intro Packs are just meant to have new players try the different variant that the new set has to offer while keeping the strategies as simple as posible...adding an extra pack is a Bonus intended to as a second step into Introducing the costumer to the contructed play...and yet some Intros have brought up enough profitable cards to even increase the product value over the standard price due demand on barely 1/2 cards contained in them. Most likely Structure Deck in Yugioh are comparable with even Deck in MTG...and last time I've checked those...one contained 2 of this card that HAS TO BE EMERGENCY BANNED due to its broken playabilty in standard... [/quote] But that deck also is still legal in tournament play, as long as you don't change it's contents. I definately believe Magic's better than Yugioh, so I don't really understand what you're arguing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1309061108' post='5311247'] But that deck also is still legal in tournament play, as long as you don't change it's contents. I definately believe Magic's better than Yugioh, so I don't really understand what you're arguing here. [/quote] I think we were talking about profiting with the game... But...I can't tell at this point...got distracted and lost in some moment between my convos in msn and reading news...XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcher boyz Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='King of Nothing' timestamp='1309039649' post='5310480'] Card Fight Vanguard isn't one of the greatest known and received TCGs of all time. And how do I know that a "good" pack will be worth more than a "bad" pack. In this case, demand determines price. The demand of the good one will rise and the demand of the bad one will fall. Once again, lrn2market EDIT: I also forgot to mention that people wouldn't have to buy as many packs to get what they want. It's just a losing situation for Konami. We may call them idiots, but we are using their product and playing their game by their rules, so no matter how dumb we think they are, they're winning =P [/quote] thanks for continuing to not read all my posts before posting guise yes giving an example of a tcg that doesn't print set filler in response to "HERP DERP EVERYBODY PRINT SET FILLER SO IT MUST BE OK" is a bad response How? No f***ing s***. WAIT YOU STILL DON'T GET IT!?! Nobody buys a booster just for the commons. You can get multiple copies of every common in the set from a single box, and most competitive players buy multiple boxes. The problem is that this system generates a colossal supply of "bad" cards for the very small demand of "bad" players. QED we get massive amounts of unwanted cards. Example: Let's say that little Bill buys two STOR boosters so he can make 6sam. He gets a Shi-en and a Kizan, along with all the commons he needs and some jank. Example 2: Let's say that little Bill buys two STOR boosters so he can make 6sam. He gets a Shi-en and a Kizan, along with all the commons he needs and some good commons. oh look he's still going to buy packs to get shiny cards lrn2read WHY CAN'T YOU UNDESTAND THAT PEOPLE BUY LARGE AMOUNTS OF PACKS FOR THE RARES, NOBODY WINS IN THE CURRENT SYSTEM [quote name='evilfusion' timestamp='1309039396' post='5310468'] 1) I haven't a clue. I'm somewhat known for my ranty long posts. Debates are fun and I like covering points. 2) Not necessarily, I'm just not the person to ask, as I'm not involved in the R+D or decisions. 3) That seems to be a matter that's easier said than done, I'm afraid. Again, a good common is subjective, and we already mentioned repeatedly that some Set filler are interesting cards we can't use yet/now, or anime cards that are mostly just there for the anime fanbase. I still see posts of people discussing an anime card and lamenting that it wasn't printed. 4) I know. It was just an example of a card that APPEARS bad, but actually is good. We're still looking for possibilities of those other Normal Traps with self-harming/opponent aiding effects. The fact they exist is the cross between a running joke and hidden potential. 5) Frankly, I just pop into this topic every hour or so, read the new posts, and if there's nothing to warrant a comment, I leave again, retaining very little of the content and definitely not who said what. Then it comes down to "Who would buy a pack of meh cards?" vs "Nearly everyone will buy the actual Set packs, in the hopes they'll pull X". Plus it'd have a later release date since accumulating 40 Set filler cards in a predetermined pack may take more than 1 Set pack, assuming no duplicates. Unless the predetermined Set pack has a gem card, the way a lot of Structure Decks have awesome reprints that prompts "I'm buying 3 of those just for card X, Y, and Z!" And again, with Elphin, it's an example of a card that's not useful. It's an interesting tech, but in this day, Elphin can be seen as bad EXCEPT in a Vayu Turbo deck. I view a number of "bad" cards the same way. [/quote] eh fine, we'll just assume that konami has no reason for doing this However, there are cards cards that are unarguably bad, e.g. self-mummification how can you not differentiate between this card and self-mummification Wait, so you have the time to post massively long posts but not enough to spend 5 mins looking back through the topic to see if your queries have already been answered? Yes? No s***. Why would you need to do this if the casual market is so important that it gets 5-10 cards every set? [quote]And again, with Elphin, it's an example of a card that's [b]not useful.[/b] It's an interesting tech, but in this day, Elphin can be seen as [b]bad EXCEPT in a Vayu Turbo deck.[/b] I view a number of "bad" cards the same way.[/quote] wat wait so "not useful" doesn't mean "decent in a tier 2 deck" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Lightray Daedalus- Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 tl,dr; Bad Cards will always exist, is a matter of fact, that belongs to the very roots and essence of the game, and that will never change...so, deal with it or GTFO Oh and marcher: You don't undestard how it works coz you are seeing all this from a one sided point of view...people do want to get the rares...but then why would you care about the commons if the only thing you want is to get your shiny cards...also come on Yugioh has its rarity system really f***ed up...I mean...I saw this guy opening Mystic Piper from a box and getting mad that while Mystic Piper wasn't all that bad, it was not a card someone would want to pull as their secret from a box...but that hasn't anything to do with bad cards being common as it is with cards has their rarity really messed up...mostly...those so called...SHINY CARDS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1309057732' post='5311108'] It depends on what tops, and whether a card is a "money card" or not. [/quote] Pretty much every single top deck had money cards in it Perfect Circle had D-Draw and Malicious Dark Return had DAD x 3 LS had JD and Honest Glads had Heraklinos TeleDAD had components of Perfect Circle, Dark Return, and Crush Card Virus and the entire 15 card Extra Deck Blackwings had Dark Strike Fighter and ... the other level 7 Blackwing Synchro X-Sabers had their synchro and that... grim reaper looking card. Infernities had Archfiend and Barrier I think the few that didn't were Frogs and stuff with the plant engine, and that's only 'cause I haven't been playing in a long time. But yeah, every single deck had money cards, and a lot of them could only be used in one specific deck, as opposed to any kind of deck in general. And then they toss out the current "deck of of the now" through bans or by making the next set of cards even more powerful and then we're back to buying a whole new deck (or hopefully taking components of older decks to make it work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted June 26, 2011 Report Share Posted June 26, 2011 [quote name='marcher boyz' timestamp='1309076542' post='5311486'] how can you not differentiate between this card and self-mummification Wait, so you have the time to post massively long posts but not enough to spend 5 mins looking back through the topic to see if your queries have already been answered? wait so "not useful" doesn't mean "decent in a tier 2 deck" [/quote] 1) Because Self-Mummification has uses, it's just not normally the card you'd pick for that use use. It was mentioned before usng it on Fortune Lady Light. It was argued that Interdimensional is better for that use. And I'll one-up it by saying that Compulsory Evacuation Device is even better for that use, since it's more versatile. Other monsters get effects for going to the Graveyard, and Self-Mummification being a Quick-Play actually makes it interesting, albeit not good. Mind Control/similar + Self-Mummification has uses. Using Self-Mummification to save a monster from D-Prison to get its effect in the Grave has a use. The card HAS uses. It's just sort of a dumb card. Localized Tornado or whatever...I don't know. That's...I don't know. Maybe it will have a use that's just not blatantly apparent. 2) Well, yes. It's much easier to give replies and my thoughts to points in one post than research every post in the thread by a certain person, half of which are probably the same thing I'm replying to reiterated, particularly if I was under the impression it wasn't stated. If you forgot, I was responding to "don't put bad cards in the main set", which seemed like something you wanted abolished entirely. The fact you evidently suggested precisely what to do with the existing bad cards slipped my notice. A jump to conclusions, yes, but logical under the circumstances. 3) I don't see Elphin played in most Blackwing decks, and it has a rather severe con of having to be Normal Summoned while you already control a Blackwing, a deck which has a slight issue with Normal Summons being limited. So in the context of standard top-tier Blackwing decks, Elphin is bad. Vayu Turbo does not use it in the modern day, to my knowledge. Therefore, not useful. That's glossing over the point, however. Off the top of my head, Localized Tornado and Self-Mummification are considered EXVC's "trash cards". 2/100 isn't bad. Now I know someone made a massive list of EXVC's cards and commented on them, but those standards were a bit harsh from what is ACTUALLY junk, and Skiel is a deserved Secret Rare because it was the first Machine Emperor released in the TCG. The others are only available as promos. And I like Skiel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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