Mehmani Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Dт. Михаи́л Ботви́нник PчD' timestamp='1320593784' post='5621208'] One has always been in favour of some form of democratic council or suchlike, and as a Moderator one has put this proposition forward in the Moderator's Forum. The answer was as condescending as ever - the member base are "too stupid" and "won't take elections seriously". It would "become a popularity contest". Well, the current Fascist method of Moderator Election is a popularity contest, just with an audience of elitist, arrogant teens with the power to enforce it. RL elections aren't taken seriously by everyone - here in the UK we have "The Monster Raving Loony Party". The current league of staff are the best we've ever had, but they still look upon the population of this site with the blind disdain of the British Raj in India. [/quote] This comment was posted a few minutes ago in a fantastic thread by Wahrheit about how Comments & Suggestions are rarely taken seriously. Well, as a Moderator, one feels that one can offer a reason as to why the general populace of this site are generalized, patronized and treated like immature children. I frankly don't have the guts to post anything too subversive, but YCM is definitely clever enough to figure out what the "Government" thinks of them by the contents of this post alone. Get to work then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourmaline Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 It would be ignorant of whoever condescended our demography. It's a demography they're part of, where they don't suddenly have an increase of intelligence due to their title. I'm more inclined to believe that they're underestimating us because their powers (which are realistically nothing at all,) have touched their heads whether or not they are in denial. This isn't absolute, either. A moderator or higher power can be generous or anti-authoritarian in mindset and action. It depends on how lax they are... A democracy would be fine. It is fully possible to ignore the votes that are jokingly made or be less of a solipsistic purist (fundamentalism/purism is disgusting, anyway,) and realize that one's priorities are not universal. Is there something else...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I think if such a vote was setup and explained properly, that a Democratic style of electing new mods would be possible. But there are also those of the C&O Section who vote for the club, so I'm really sketchy on putting the idea into action. However, such things would rarely be/need to be discussed if our admin wasn't AWOL, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [center]Just elect Obama and we can be on our ailly little way...[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehmani Posted November 6, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Clubs and Organizations is a disgusting place, and the way that they infect YMBs with their Eurovision-style block voting would be likely to occur in Democratic elections. However, we could just complain loudly should it occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Hinagiku Katsura' timestamp='1320595483' post='5621257'] A democracy would be fine. It is fully possible to ignore the votes that are jokingly made or be less of a solipsistic purist (fundamentalism/purism is disgusting, anyway,) and realize that one's priorities are not universal. [/quote] If that's your stance then the fundamental issue is who decides which votes to ignore and who decides what is a joke. And if your solution is that the member should decide this, who decides which of those members should be ignored and who decides if those members are joking? In any case, my own version of "democracy" on this site is exactly how I ran the Your Deck mod poll. Ask people to private message me (emphasis on private) on who they think should be mod. Tally up who got what and investigate the top x-amount of people. But ultimately, mods get final say. Not because ZOMG! WE'RE SO MUCH SMARTER THEN ALL OF YOU! but because people will come out in droves to vote for popular candidates, who are popular for providing "hilarious" posts, popular for bullying Shard or something, or popular for all the reasons you shouldn't be a moderator. Crab summed it up best in some post on Mod Forum: [quote]YCM moderators aren't a government; we don't write economic policy and make war on other sites. YCM moderators are a police force; we charge in with the locks and bans when people do silly things. And you don't vote for police. [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 This isn't Facism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Revan of the Sith Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Screw democracy go UNIONISM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 On a side note, I think the topic creator needs to suggest further detail. What form of election will we hold? Should not the ballet be a blind ballet? How do we nominate candidates? Who counts the votes? How often will these elections occur? Too often will mean the mods will constantly be working for re-election, but to rarely means it will seem to be dictatorial still. How do we remove mods abusing power? Having YCMaker do it would once again be abusive and make him in charge and these elections pointless. Assuming the use of different mods for subforums, and super mods we need some form of division of powers to make this semi-federalist site work. There are tons of questions to be asked and answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Welche' timestamp='1320599702' post='5621484'] How do we remove mods abusing power? [/quote] The ones that are damage control (Fusion, Mikhail, and I think a few others) are easy to remove. The ones that have "staff" under their names, I'm fairly certain a simple ban does still work on them. (Just ask Frunk. ^_^;; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 democracy on an internet community? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilfusion Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Almost anything vote related, in any community, is a popularity contest. The people who get noticed aren't necessarily the best options. This was the same with Student Council elections back in school. The more popular candidates would get more votes by the default that more people know them and like them, and even if they're terrible candidates, the other voters that either don't care for Mr. Popular or believe Ms. Competent would be a better candidate won't have the support of the masses and undecided votes would get more evenly spread through the others and Popularity still comes out on top. It's not that the YCM population is stupid or immature so much as it's the default nature of any community, online or otherwise. People who are amusing and have lots of friends are more likely to win any competition that requires input from the masses. You need to be noticeable to get people to even consider you, and you have to be competent to be a good fit for a position, such as a moderator. Unfortunately, very few people are both, and even then it can be very hit-or-miss. As for abusing power, it's not that easy to regulate. In government, there is the power of impeachment, but this has never been done for Presidents or officials that make unpopular decisions or have slips in judgment. Mods are human. They have to make decisions based on what they feel are the best courses of action for any given situation. The people affected might scream "mod abuse!" but sometimes decisions aren't black and white, and it's hard to distinguish an error vs malicious intent. And repeated offenses are needed before anyone can definitely finger someone and say "They're doing something wrong". You can't please everyone. That's the sad truth of all change. You leave something alone, people will continue to complain about issues. You change something, people are upset because they liked it before. So even if we're not talking about appointing someone to a job or position, you can never win. The best you can ever do is compromise, and that sort of half-effort never satisfies fully. On this very board, I've seen new changes implanted and it's immediately decried as the worst thing YCM has ever done and that people should have been asked first. So, you ask them first and it still ends up as a split vote. Some people yell "Yay!" others say "Damn this idea!" The best case scenario are competent, well-written arguments supporting or decrying any idea, and the ones with power taking this into consideration and consider what would be best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanael D. Striker Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 I did a bit of an experiment with democracy in my own club. It was a bit of a popularity vote, but I did require them to state a reason for wanting to run. Elections on a larger platform can work, but there are more factors to take in than a simple club election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Amazing Avian Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1320600427' post='5621511'] democracy on an internet community? lol [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Angel Lever' timestamp='1320600305' post='5621507'] The ones that are damage control (Fusion, Mikhail, and I think a few others) are easy to remove. The ones that have "staff" under their names, I'm fairly certain a simple ban does still work on them. (Just ask Frunk. ;; ) [/quote] But does Frunk deserve that power? If we switch to a full scale democracy then we need to remove Frunk from power. Or we could have some form of "Constitutional Monarchy", i.e. that Falling Pizza and YCMaker are the monarchs, but their power is restrained by a set of rules, or constitution. We also have an elected set of moderators who are subordinate to them. You also failed to answer a lot of other questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tentacruel Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The current YCM system is fine. The moderators are, for the most part, smarter than the rest of the members anyway. I've never seen a mod abusing power so I don't see the point in complaining about them. This is YCMaker's site. He can do whatever the hell he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 Ultimately, if it comes at the end of the day that Frunk or some else is a danger to have on the forum as a mod, but overall a tranquil and alright member, the best we can do is remove him from staff to end whatever threat he was causing. What happens next would be up to him I suppose. To summarize, as far as I know there is no way to de-admin or de-staff (mostly because we have not tried it out, because then we'd be stuck with one less admin or one less staff member, which would be bad.) I have a theory that still needs testing that may help, but I'm lazy and I don't wanna do it right now. Also I can't think of any more clever spoof-names for existing users. YCMaker and Falling Pizza are pretty much gone so I don't think they factor in for right now. But then again, they might surprise me and show up. Honestly, I'd like to be proven wrong. The rest of your questions were based on a hypothetical, so I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 The rest of the questions need to be solved before we could ever implement this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Unclean One: VK Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 We currently chat and the like on YCMaker's site. Thus he has the authority to run his site anyhow he wants. The Mods currently do their job well. Their usually the members who are smarter then the rest. I like how we have our current system of police so let's keep it. Their the Nobs and we're the Ork boyz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catterjune Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='Welche' timestamp='1320599702' post='5621484'] Should not the ballet be a blind ballet? [/quote]But then how would the ballerina's be able to see each other? [/smarmy] But seriously though, all your questions are "open to discussion", are they not? And all answers have their own drawbacks and advantages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut - Envoy of the End Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [b]Conspiracy!!! RAWRRR!!! Brothers, we must rise together and fight against the oppressive mod machine!!! Take back what is rightly ours!!![/b] Really...? Really? I'm really poor at presenting arguments but I have to post on this one, because the subject annoys me enough. What on earth do we need an elected government here for? This site just doesn't need it. Yeah, I'm all for democracy and fairness, but on a forum about a card game I don't really think its that much of a need or issue. As said by loads of people, general elections would just result in popular people like Clair or evilfusion becomes modfs because 'I like them because they're awesome...'. That they may or may not be qualified to be a mod is going to be irrelevant to most voters, because you forget who the voters would be. They are users of YGO forum, and are mostly children. That a lot of the time behave like silly little children. There are some mature and sensible ordinary members here of course. All the mods I've known and spoke to recognise this and are perfectly amicable with them. Respect the mods, they respect you back. I have never seen any evidence of what you are suggesting/complaining about. If they b**** about everyone on their private forum then... well whatever I don't really care. As long as I can still chat to friends and make cards, I'm really not that fussed. I imagine thats the case for most people. They just want somewhere to have fun and make cards, not be involved in political campaigns and that sort of thing. Agree with Crab Helmet's statement entirely. The mods just need to be sensible and fair, which they are as far as I've ever seen. And as far as I've known them they are completely alright. Can be sarcastic buggers sometimes, but I appreciate that. Maybe that means I'm just as much of an elitist as them to you. That I'm a candidate for little tight circle of influence or some other conspiracy......... or maybe I'm just an ordinary reasonable person who can get on with other people who just happen to have a title. Titles that they were given because they were seen as the right people for the job, because yes they probably are smarter than others here, but they know how to use their smarts. Whereas the original poster refers to himself as 'one'? You accuse the mods of regarding themselves as smarter than average members, but you refer to yourself as 'one'? Again, really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welche the crab Posted November 6, 2011 Report Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='PikaPerson01' timestamp='1320610906' post='5622034'] But then how would the ballerina's be able to see each other? [/smarmy] But seriously though, all your questions are "open to discussion", are they not? And all answers have their own drawbacks and advantages. [/quote] Welcome to the wonderful discipline of Political Science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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