Illegal Immigration

[The Amazing Avian]

You know even if Americans did want the jobs that immigrants took, they wouldn't because they would have to get at least minimum wage. Immigrants are willing to work for half that amount of money and don't even expect days off or any other benefits that Americans would get.

[Hydra of Ages]

[quote name='JadenxAtemYAOI' timestamp='1320903817' post='5630397']
I would also like to mention that Washington is also very homophobic and genderphobic.
[/quote]

By this inane logic, so are most of the states, what's your point?

If your source isn't available to the public as a whole, by the way, it's not a good source.

By the way, I'm now asking for citations proving that the majority of people in both Alabama and Washington are racist (also homophobic and generphobic, considering you seem so intent on bringing it up). In an ideal world, I'd also like you to cite a psychology paper confirming your '[i]racist people don't want to work as farmers[/i]' thesis, which may be difficult considering racist farmers exist.

Strange that you seem to think most racists have administrative jobs, by the way. From where I am, racism is usually associated with lack of education, something necessary for that sort of field.

[i]EDIT: [/i]I just noticed that you defended your theory by saying Washington was racist against NATIVE AMERICANS. The article was about apple-picking. I'm sorry, were Native Americans ever stereotypically apple pickers? Is that a thing I'm just not aware of?

[Tentacruel]

It's our fault for hiring them.

[Lonk]

I honestly find criminalizing immigration without going through the system to be a waste of law. So what if they enter in our country? If they don't do anything wrong and actually help, then there is no problem with people not going through the system to be immigrants.

[Tentacruel]

Personally I think they should crack down on employers.


Or we could, you know, legalize them?

[Just Crouton]

[quote name='Tentacruel' timestamp='1320929450' post='5630553']
Personally I think they should crack down on employers.
[/quote]

This

[quote name='Tentacruel' timestamp='1320929450' post='5630553']
Or we could, you know, legalize them?
[/quote]

Why should fence-jumpers get easier access than people who came here honestly?

[Tentacruel]

Well, they shouldn't necessarily get easier access so much as everyone getting easier access. Other than that we should just go with the first plan.

As Ron Paul said, just attack their benefits so there's no reason to come here illegally.

[Lonk]

I disagree with you there ADHD. If entering into the U.S. legally is so easy, then why do many immigrants enter illegally? They get many benefits from being full-fledged American Citizens, but America must have made legal immigration difficult since Immigrants are entering illegally. If people are worried about having their jobs stolen or having too many people in the U.S., then:

1) Suck it up and deal with it. The United States, in general, has a very closed mind.
2) Stop reproducing like Rolf's rabbits. Close your legs more often. Then, we can have more elbow room.

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

Guys, we have an immigration system. If people don't follow it, we need to kick them out. I don't care if it's difficult, so is school. We still have to go through with it.

[LordCowCowCowCowCowCowCowCow]

[quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1321026686' post='5632662']
Guys, we have an immigration system. If people don't follow it, we need to kick them out. I don't care if it's difficult, so is school. We still have to go through with it.
[/quote]

I completely agree. Problem is the crazies who want us to just shoot all the immigrants. They make me want to side with the illegals.

[Cin]

It's addressing the issue why they feel like the need to immigrate first, before you can force them out of the country. (Plus I like to put the argument forward that no one has the right to refuse entry to a country, since humanity started in Africa, and migrated elsewhere, and Spanish/English/etc came after America was already settled, but that's just me, I like to pick things like that). I can understand why it is a huge problem, maybe America need to crack down more on people who employ illegal workers like the UK do with fines for failure to check employees have correct visa or are from the European Union (thus legally allowed to work in the UK)

With Mexico it's the fatal drugs war, but there's so many other reasons. In the UK although the Polish are allowed to legally work here, conditions have improved in Poland so they're starting to go home.

[Sunshine Jesse]

I think it's too difficult to immigrate to this country. I could understand wanting to kick the lot of them out if it didn't take around a decade to become a citizen if you weren't born here.

So I don't really support any action taken to remove them out of pity more than anything.

[Hydra of Ages]

The American immigration system is absolutely ridiculous, and if you're the type of person who needs to leave Mexico in order to survive, you're [b]not [/b]going to get over legally.

So of course, the logical human thing to do is nothing, and allow them to die.

See, I can't rationalize any law with a "Screw You, Got Mine" policy, so American immigration rubs me the wrong way. Canadian immigration's a little better, but we're not bordering on a non-1st world nation.

[Tentacruel]

I have to agree, although I do respect the idea of self-responsibility, the concept of only caring about yourself is just selfish.

[Piercer of the Heavens]

Hydra I love you. You have pretty much said what I wanted to say.
I would add to what you have said, but everybody here is just so close-minded that it would just be a waste of my time.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Gigginox Master' timestamp='1321050818' post='5633503']
I would add to what you have said, but everybody here is just so close-minded that it would just be a waste of my time.
[/quote]

Speak for yourself.

General's too boring, just say it anyway.

[The Amazing Avian]

I came to the US because my parents wanted me to go to school. That was around 11 years ago. We applied for residency then and we still haven't gotten anywhere in terms of legality.

[Tentacruel]

[quote name='Random Dude' timestamp='1321052010' post='5633539']
I came to the US because my parents wanted me to go to school. That was around 11 years ago. We applied for residency then and we still haven't gotten anywhere in terms of legality.
[/quote]

Aaaaaaand there you have it. A legit reason to come to the USA and the government doesn't care.

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

But here's the thing

You have some people who come for legitimate reasons such as wanting their children to grow up in a functioning society

But then you have the illegal immigrants take the jobs legal Americans don't want

and as I'm sure you know our unemployment rate is through the roof

America's philosophy has recurred as "If you've do what you've always done then you'll get what you've always got; until the game changes"

And so the illegal immigrants have got to realize that the game has changed, Americans are going to [i]need[/i] jobs whether they like it or not and if the immigrants that are illegal are here for "noble" (whatever [i]that[/i] means) reasons then they need to organize and show the politicians and the rest of America that they have a reason for being here and they are perfectly willing to help.As long as they can start a movement, the rest America will follow as it's always has. Movements have shaped America and the illegal immigrants better find a new way of doing things. The game has changed and if the illegals don't change along with it then they'll have a hard time getting around. And to a degree, it'll be their own fault. America runs on the actions of popular movements and the illegals are going to have to raise one hell of a movement of some sort (or at least influence the left side to protest enough for them) if they want to be legal. The fact that their illegal immigrants is going to be tough but the best they can do is similar to W.E.B Debois's (probably misspelled his name =/) theory of the top ten percent raising up and showing their capability as being an asset rather than a liability.

What Alabama see's is an opportunity to get their unemployed to work, probably by enchanting them with hella good deals to get to work thus showing an example to other states with immigration problems that the formally stereotypical illegal immigrant labor can help the economy. If the immigrants that are illegal can prove that they're [i]better[/i] than the legal Americans and are enough of an asset to be legal, the argument of what is legal and what is not with regards to immigration policy [i]should[/i] change. I'm not guaranteeing it'll happen as we've hired douches to be our leaders but it might very well have good chance at working. the game has changed and the immigrants need to change the way they do things.

[Hydra of Ages]

[quote name='Itachi V. Remo' timestamp='1321058269' post='5633789']
...
[/quote]

So your suggestion to illegal immigrants is for them to become so intensely visible that the government simply can't ignore their demands.

See, there's this thing about illegal immigrants still technically being [i]illegal...[/i]

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

[quote name='JadenxAtemYAOI' timestamp='1320893875' post='5629919']
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/a-tough-new-alabama-law-targets-illegal-immigrants-and-sends-families-fleeing/2011/10/07/gIQAtZuPWL_story.html"]http://www.washingto...uPWL_story.html[/url]
I wish the entire US had enforced laws like this. I'm sure if it were up to the rednecks we could just enslave the illegal immigrants but we practically do that already by giving them conditions similar to 20's factories. My opinion is, if there's a reason you can immigrate legally, then don't immigrate at all. Failure to follow and be shot.
[/quote]
WE WORKED HARD TO BE BORN HERE

NOW LETS CALL THIS BLATANT SELF-SERVING OPPRESSION SOCIAL DARWINISM BECAUSE WE HAD NO GRASP ON/DIDNT BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION IN THE FIRST PLACE AND CAN THEREFORE THROW PSUEDO-TERMS AROUND TO JUSTIFY JUST WHAT MASSIVE DICKS WE ARE

YEAH!

If jobs are a scarcity then that's a problem with the economy. And given the fact that populations are increasing, maybe instead of focusing on people immigrating that are willing to do jobs many aren't when job contenders will only increase anyways we should actually fix the root problem and not leave the fate of job creation in the hands of corporations that would rather pay two pennies a day in Malaysia?

Nah, let's enforce ridiculous immigration laws that strip away what this country was supposed to have over others.

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

[quote name='~Coolio~' timestamp='1321164123' post='5636910']
WE WORKED HARD TO BE BORN HERE

NOW LETS CALL THIS BLATANT SELF-SERVING OPPRESSION SOCIAL DARWINISM BECAUSE WE HAD NO GRASP ON/DIDNT BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION IN THE FIRST PLACE AND CAN THEREFORE THROW PSUEDO-TERMS AROUND TO JUSTIFY JUST WHAT MASSIVE DICKS WE ARE

YEAH!

If jobs are a scarcity then that's a problem with the economy. And given the fact that populations are increasing, maybe instead of focusing on people immigrating that are willing to do jobs many aren't when job contenders will only increase anyways we should actually fix the root problem and not leave the fate of job creation in the hands of corporations that would rather pay two pennies a day in Malaysia?

Nah, let's enforce ridiculous immigration laws that strip away what this country was supposed to have over others.
[/quote]
More like the problem is that it's a LOT more cheaper to run a company outside of the U.S

Why?

Because the gov't (any party, not just the democratic president or the republican controlled Congress) taxes the hell out of large companies that fully run things on their land

And so they move elsewhere and hire these people for the exaggerated claim of 2 pennies a day

if the U.S didn't tax these companies so much they might actually comeback and they [i]might[/i] just get more jobs here.

U.S is too large and too greedy for companies to look our way and hire our jobless citizens

Also, GET INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE JOBS THAT THE ILLEGALS LEAVE BEHIND

You also do realize how used and abused illegal familes are when it comes to the jobs they work in right?

I was watching a video recently (more like in the summer...whatever) and it displayed illegals working for the frozen chicken giant Tyson who would work for ridiculously low pay and once the workers have stayed on the job for a while, they would call border patrol to arrest "recently" discovered illegals. they get nearly free workers and when they get tired of the workers/don't really care for them they throw them away and get fresh ones

That's borderline 19th century northern "work-slavery" minus the accommodation provided by the company

[quote name='Itachi V. Remo' timestamp='1321058269' post='5633789']
America runs on the actions of popular movements and the illegals are going to have to raise one hell of a movement of some sort (or at least influence the left side to protest enough for them)
[/quote]

The immigrants should find ways to have a puppet system to protest their banning of entry into the country

if you don't do anything and wait to have these laws passed down, that's kind of your fault for not acting out

Perhaps get a limited time Visa and protest for the time that they have

[Ieyasu Tokugawa]

[quote name='Itachi V. Remo' timestamp='1321231354' post='5639152']
U.S is too large and too greedy for companies to look our way and hire our jobless citizens
[/quote]
Yet we are still in debt...

[Lt. Colonel Remo]

[quote name='Twilight Sparkle' timestamp='1321231459' post='5639164']
Yet we are still in debt...
[/quote]
[insert MLP shrug here]

I honestly don't know why the U.S see's it necessary to keep these sorts of international company specified taxes in existence

Like I said, those smaller countries don't tax nearly as much and don't pay workers there nearly as much

[~/Coolio Prime\~]

Hilarity.
[quote name='Itachi V. Remo' timestamp='1321231354' post='5639152']
More like the problem is that it's a LOT more cheaper to run a company outside of the U.S

Why?

Because the gov't (any party, not just the democratic president or the republican controlled Congress) taxes the hell out of large companies that fully run things on their land

And so they move elsewhere and hire these people for the exaggerated claim of 2 pennies a day

if the U.S didn't tax these companies so much they might actually comeback and they [i]might[/i] just get more jobs here.

U.S is too large and too greedy for companies to look our way and hire our jobless citizens[/quote]
This part of your post…

[quote]Also, GET INCENTIVES FOR PEOPLE WHO TAKE THE JOBS THAT THE ILLEGALS LEAVE BEHIND

You also do realize how used and abused illegal familes are when it comes to the jobs they work in right?

I was watching a video recently (more like in the summer...whatever) and it displayed illegals working for the frozen chicken giant Tyson who would work for ridiculously low pay and once the workers have stayed on the job for a while, they would call border patrol to arrest "recently" discovered illegals. they get nearly free workers and when they get tired of the workers/don't really care for them they throw them away and get fresh ones

That's borderline 19th century northern "work-slavery" minus the accommodation provided by the company [/quote]
completely negates the other half.

It's the greedy government overtaxing massive companies? Look at the actual revenue and taxes on major companies - if anything they're too low. Companies aren't over here because they'd have to treat citizens like humans, and they would earn less money (when they're already sitting upon mounds of it). Two pennies a day is an exaggeration as I can't find any exact source on wages, but it's far below our already low minimum wage.

The solution is to stop relying on these types of businesses you have already detailed abusing human rights. A socialist large scale of government job distribution with capitalist local businesses for small scale distribution would be a nice improvement. At the very least goods made through inhumane methods should be efficiently banned from sale.

But honestly, saying it's the government's greed at fault when the businessman isn't content with only making a few billion is ridiculous.