Extra destructive spell inspired by Blue Eyes Ultimate (help with OCG, PLEASE!)

[DropDeadDream]

I know the OCG is horrendous in this, but no card remotely like this has been created before (by Konami, at least), and I don't know how to word it.

Anyway, here's a VERY destructive spell card. Rate, hate, meditate!

Image credit goes to Static-ghost on DeviantART dot com

[img]http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/9280/518482.jpg[/img]

Text:
Activate only if your opponent controls 3 or more monsters than you do: Special Summon this card in face-up Attack Position as an Effect Monster (Dragon-Type/WIND/Level 8/ATK 0/DEF 4500). (This card is still treated as a Spell card.) This card can attack all monsters your opponent controls once each. When this card battles, during the Damage Step: Reduce this card's DEF by any amount (permanently) and this card gains the same amount of ATK, during damage calculation only. This card is destroyed during the End Phase of the turn it was activated.

[newhat]

Let me take a crack at it:
[quote="Lore:"]Activate only if your opponent controls 3 or more monsters than you do: Special Summon this card in face-up Attack Position as an Effect Monster (Dragon-Type/WIND/Level 8/ATK 0/DEF 4500). This card can attack all monsters your opponent controls once each. When this card battles, during the Damage Step: Reduce this card's original DEF by any amount (permanently) and this card gains the same amount of ATK, during damage calculation only. [/quote]

Or, with Counters,
[quote="Lore:"]Activate only if your opponent controls 3 or more monsters than you do: Special Summon this card in face-up Attack Position as an Effect Monster (Dragon-Type/WIND/Level 8/ATK 0/DEF 0) and place 9 Spirit Counters on this card. This card can attack all monsters your opponent controls once each. When this card battles, during the Damage Step: Remove any number of Spirit Counters from this card; increase this card's ATK by 500 for each Spirit Counter removed, during damage calculation only. [/quote]

Or, to be faithful to the original vision,
[quote="Lore:"]Activate only if your opponent controls 3 or more monsters than you do: Special Summon this card in face-up Attack Position as an Effect Monster (Dragon-Type/WIND/Level 8/ATK 0/DEF 0). This card can attack all monsters your opponent controls once each. When this card battles, during the Damage Step: You may increase this card's ATK by any amount, during damage calculation only. (You may not increase this card's ATK by a total of 4500 or more while it remains face-up on the field.) [/quote]

If you wanted this card to be vulnerable to Bottomless, I got nothin'.

[DropDeadDream]

haha, it's funny, but your first "crack at it" is closer to the original than the one you thought was closer to it. I guess my OCG was just that bad! xD I think I'll use that first one, except say "Reduce this card's DEF by any amount..." because after the first attack, I want the amount of ATK points used in that attack to be used up. It's like having 4500 points, then using, say, 2000 on an attack against one of your opponent's monsters. After that attack, you will have 2500 points left to use on another attack. Get it? So if I say "original DEF", then it would being like getting to start at 4500 for every attack, whoch would be massively OP. but thanks so much for the help! can you tell me what you think of this card?

[Mr. guy]

Well..

It's pretty OP as a field clearing device, but then again, so is lightning vortex/dark hole/etc.

I'd say its fine as it is. Just think about what it adds to the game? Where can you see this card being used?

[DropDeadDream]

[quote name='Mr. guy' timestamp='1323041024' post='5686945']
Well..

It's pretty OP as a field clearing device, but then again, so is lightning vortex/dark hole/etc.

I'd say its fine as it is. Just think about what it adds to the game? Where can you see this card being used?
[/quote]

Well, I'd say that it isn't as OP as Vortex and Dark Hole because any of the attacks can be stopped with face-downs.

[newhat]

Ah, my bad. I used "original ATK" because you didn't include the End Phase destruction in the original card. Thus, you could equip it with United We Stand and Summon another monster for an easy 3200 boost. I'm not sure, but I think both versions are otherwise functionally equivalent.

It's true that a monster can be stopped by Trap Cards, but a destructive Spell can be stopped by Stardust Dragon or Starlight Road, and this can't. Also, Dark Hole doesn't do Battle Damage. But your opponent does need 3+ monsters, so...

I can see this card being used in Bubbleman Burn. Just make it a Continuous Spell Card for simplicity.

[ragnarok1945]

4500 def? That's WAY too high for lv8 monster, it's not even hard to summon to the field

you can say it can't do anything initially since it has 0 atk, as well as it only lasts for 1 turn

but 1 turn is all you need. All it takes is a simple Shield and Sword on this, and you have a 4500 atk powerhouse and easy OTK set up

[DropDeadDream]

[quote name='ragnarok1945' timestamp='1323054635' post='5687656']
4500 def? That's WAY too high for lv8 monster, it's not even hard to summon to the field

you can say it can't do anything initially since it has 0 atk, as well as it only lasts for 1 turn

but 1 turn is all you need. All it takes is a simple Shield and Sword on this, and you have a 4500 atk powerhouse and easy OTK set up
[/quote]

umm, did you read the effect? The DEF power isn't the point at all... as a matter of fact, no. If you read the effect, you'd know that Shield and Sword would actually hurt this card. You must reduce DEF power from this card for it to attack. With Shield and Sword, it would have 0 DEF...

[newhat]

[quote name='ragnarok1945' timestamp='1323054635' post='5687656']
4500 def? That's WAY too high for lv8 monster, it's not even hard to summon to the field

you can say it can't do anything initially since it has 0 atk, as well as it only lasts for 1 turn

but 1 turn is all you need. All it takes is a simple Shield and Sword on this, and you have a 4500 atk powerhouse and easy OTK set up
[/quote]
The DEF is functionally meaningless because it dies at your End Phase. The card charges its ATK by losing DEF; it can be used as a 4500 attacker as soon as you play it. This condition is harder to meet than the condition on Malefic Cyber End Dragon, and that fellow lasts you past the end of the turn.

[DropDeadDream]

[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1323056373' post='5687749']
The DEF is functionally meaningless because it dies at your End Phase. The card charges its ATK by losing DEF; it can be used as a 4500 attacker as soon as you play it. This condition is harder to meet than the condition on Malefic Cyber End Dragon, and that fellow lasts you past the end of the turn.
[/quote]

Exactly. Think of the DEF as a deposit that it can pull points from to gain ATK power. And yes, if you were to give it 4500 all at once, it would only be good for one attack, same as Malefic CED, and Malefic CED is easier to use. But using 4500 all at once isn't the point. It's distributing the points for multiple attacks.

[Sleepy]

[quote name='ragnarok1945' timestamp='1323054635' post='5687656']
4500 def? That's WAY too high for lv8 monster, it's not even hard to summon to the field

you can say it can't do anything initially since it has 0 atk, as well as it only lasts for 1 turn

but 1 turn is all you need. All it takes is a simple Shield and Sword on this, and you have a 4500 atk powerhouse and easy OTK set up
[/quote]

Except for the "Shield and Sword" part, I agree with Ragnarok here.

You are not restricted to any specific amount, but to stay in the hundreds, You could easily get up to a 4300/200 monster, then keep moving 100 more for each attack you want to keep doing that turn (concidering your opponent will have at least 3 monsters for you to attack, and this card can attak all of them at once). It could have 3 DEF left it would still be able to attack paying it's condition.
Most opponent's monsters will usually have around 2500 at most. It'll be easy to cause massive damage and some card advantage gaining.

Finally, because it's a Monster Spell rather than a Token, you can actually use it in an Xyz Summon instead of loosing it.

[Hunderas]

alright from what im reading it seems like no one is actually reading the effect. you start out with 4500 def then you take away say 2000. so that makes it a 2000/2500 monster for [b][u]one[/u][/b] attack. after that [b][u]one[/u][/b] attack the cards attack would go back down to 0, so the new stats for after this first attack would be 0/2500.

[newhat]

[quote name='Hunderas' timestamp='1323062402' post='5687928'] you start out with 4500 def then you take away say 2000. so that makes it a 2000/2500 monster for [b][u]one[/u][/b] attack. after that [b][u]one[/u][/b] attack the cards attack would go back down to 0, so the new stats for after this first attack would be 0/2500.
[/quote]
That's right. Because the increase is "during damage calculation only", it goes away as soon as the battle is finished.
[quote name='~Applejack~' timestamp='1323060534' post='5687893']...because it's a Monster Spell rather than a Token, you can actually use it in an Xyz Summon instead of loosing it.[/quote]
There aren't any Rank 8 monsters you can Summon with this card. Thunder-End Dragon doesn't work because this card is treated as an Effect Monster.

[Sleepy]

[quote name='Hunderas' timestamp='1323062402' post='5687928']
alright from what im reading it seems like no one is actually reading the effect. you start out with 4500 def then you take away say 2000. so that makes it a 2000/2500 monster for [b][u]one[/u][/b] attack. after that [b][u]one[/u][/b] attack the cards attack would go back down to 0, so the new stats for after this first attack would be 0/2500.
[/quote]

Oh yeah, that's the part I missed. Sorry about that, but it's still an easy 4500 ATK Special Summon from one card even if it's for one attack, which requires less Deck dedication than the Malefics, which is still kind of borderline. Although yes, I recognize that sentence does make a big difference in it's balance.

Your card is magic, I don't normally miss those points, and it seems I wasn't the only one.


[quote name='newhat' timestamp='1323065637' post='5687978']
That's right. Because the increase is "during damage calculation only", it goes away as soon as the battle is finished.

There aren't any Rank 8 monsters you can Summon with this card. Thunder-End Dragon doesn't work because this card is treated as an Effect Monster.
[/quote]

Anime has a generic Rank 8 already. Episode 33 if I recall. Also, you can make your way with Level Eater into a Big Eye when you are finished.

[Resident Fascist]

[quote name='ragnarok1945' timestamp='1323054635' post='5687656']
but 1 turn is all you need. All it takes is a simple Shield and Sword on this, and you have a 4500 atk powerhouse and easy OTK set up
[/quote]
mfw I read your post:
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114210513/yugioh/images/0/09/PreviewZEXAL32.jpg[/img]

Tbh, OP. It's sorta situational and really should be a quickplay. If your opponent isn't stupid, they won't bother attacking it and it'll rarely get game. This isn't destructive at all, stopped by a simple MST or Dust Tornado. If you really wanted to make a card like this, atleast make it quickplay

[Simping For Hina]

[quote name='Shard' timestamp='1323092195' post='5688230']
mfw I read your post:
[img]http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111114210513/yugioh/images/0/09/PreviewZEXAL32.jpg[/img]

Tbh, OP. It's sorta situational and really should be a quickplay. If your opponent isn't stupid, they won't bother attacking it and it'll rarely get game. This isn't destructive at all, stopped by a simple MST or Dust Tornado. If you really wanted to make a card like this, atleast make it quickplay
[/quote]I can't say wasn't has been said already.
But, every spell card should be a quick-play in your book >.>
If this card wasn't treated as a Spell Card, it wouldn't be able to be stopped by MST or Dust tornado. Which that is more what you are suggesting in the end. That would make it a little bit more OP'd. It shouldn't be a quick-play either because that would also make it more OP'd. You are only giving reasons on why it is not.

[DropDeadDream]

[quote name='Shard' timestamp='1323092195' post='5688230']
If your opponent isn't stupid, they won't bother attacking it and it'll rarely get game. This isn't destructive at all, stopped by a simple MST or Dust Tornado. If you really wanted to make a card like this, atleast make it quickplay
[/quote]

But... your opponent attacking it... isn't going to happen... why is that a concern? This card will be declaring the attacks. And if I made it a quickplay, it would be even more OP. Same with if I made it resistant to Dust Tornado/Mystical Space Typhoon/Magic Jammer.