Lonk Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Jurrac engine requires skill and some deck dedication to use, so it isn't really abusable. Evols are a strong decktype, but they aren't broken in any way, even with Laggia @3. Honestly, it was only the spam rabbit that abused Laggia. Najasho is good, but can be so very inconsistent if you get him and no way to tribute him off the bat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderVolt Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1330633351' post='5850226'] Jurrac engine requires skill and some deck dedication to use, so it isn't really abusable. [b]Evols are a strong decktype, but they aren't broken in any way, even with Laggia @3.[/b] Honestly, it was only the spam rabbit that abused Laggia. Najasho is good, but can be so very inconsistent if you get him and no way to tribute him off the bat. [/quote] F**k yes Evols. and i 2nd the notion about Najasho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1330633351' post='5850226'] Jurrac engine requires skill and some deck dedication to use, so it isn't really abusable. [/quote] Does it really now? Have you ever splashed 3 Guaiba into Inzektors along with Lances? It requires 0 skill to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 God dang it I played evols before they were cool I'd know what I'm talking about, whipper snappers. Besides, Effects of monsters(Which dolkka would handle much better) are, currently the main thing. Not sure what would be if the this came out, but Whatevs. Evols are somewhat inconsistent even this RotA, but are more powerful. Tier 1.5 At most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Tracks Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 I'm too lazy to read through all of this so the following questions and confusion may have been answered. Can someone explain why Hunter is banned and Zenmaity is limited? Zenmaity is the main problem with the hand loop as far as I know. Without Zenmaity acting as an enabler Hunter doesn't do any real damage. The best the Wind-up hand loop can do without Zemaity is a few Rat plays and maybe take out a card or two per turn. This isn't threatening and it can be assumed that Wind-Ups would have better plays. However by leaving Zenmaity at one and Emeral at three you're just allowing for Wind-Ups to generate a large field presence with minimal investment and potential OTKs. Basically, why is Hunter (who is no problem by himself) banned when the Zenmaity (the enabler that causes the hand loop and other problems) left at one? Unless Wind-Ups can do the hand loop without Zenmaity, your current positions of Hunter and Zenmaity don't seem correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ieyasu Tokugawa Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Banning Zenmaighty severely damages the deck. Why obliterate a deck when all you need to do is stop a single combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 [quote name='Tiger Tracks' timestamp='1330644285' post='5850602'] I'm too lazy to read through all of this so the following questions and confusion may have been answered. Can someone explain why Hunter is banned and Zenmaity is limited? Zenmaity is the main problem with the hand loop as far as I know. Without Zenmaity acting as an enabler Hunter doesn't do any real damage. The best the Wind-up hand loop can do without Zemaity is a few Rat plays and maybe take out a card or two per turn. This isn't threatening and it can be assumed that Wind-Ups would have better plays. However by leaving Zenmaity at one and Emeral at three you're just allowing for Wind-Ups to generate a large field presence with minimal investment and potential OTKs. Basically, why is Hunter (who is no problem by himself) banned when the Zenmaity (the enabler that causes the hand loop and other problems) left at one? Unless Wind-Ups can do the hand loop without Zenmaity, your current positions of Hunter and Zenmaity don't seem correct. [/quote] This again? I've said before that even with 1 zenmaity, they can loop your entire hand away assuming a decent hand (which only needs like 3 cards) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 [quote name='Brandon Michael Geren' timestamp='1330642677' post='5850503'] Does it really now? Have you ever splashed 3 Guaiba into Inzektors along with Lances? It requires 0 skill to do so. [/quote] Tbh, I don't think Inzektors can use the engine very well. Even with Centipede @1, the deck would still rather go for the pop 2 build 2 tactics, because they can (Would I rather +4 in my MP1, or waste a Normal Summon to go for Laggia in my MP2?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1330645761' post='5850661'] Tbh, I don't think Inzektors can use the engine very well. Even with Centipede @1, the deck would still rather go for the pop 2 build 2 tactics, because they can (Would I rather +4 in my MP1, or waste a Normal Summon to go for Laggia in my MP2?). [/quote] I'm talking about in the current format. The point is that Inzektors with Guaiba is amazing, and that definitely is not the only example. It's just the best non-Rabbit one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='Brandon Michael Geren' timestamp='1330647760' post='5850766'] I'm talking about in the current format. The point is that Inzektors with Guaiba is amazing, and that definitely is not the only example. It's just the best non-Rabbit one. [/quote] It is amazing in context, but I never see Inzektors use the Jurrac Engine since, ever. I mean, if you had to choose between summoning Dragonfly with Hornet set-up or Guaiba in hand, which would you rather go for for a generic situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1330647995' post='5850788'] It is amazing in context, but I never see Inzektors use the Jurrac Engine since, ever. I mean, if you had to choose between summoning Dragonfly with Hornet set-up or Guaiba in hand, which would you rather go for for a generic situation? [/quote] Jeff Jones did it at YCS Atlanta. He's a well-recognized good player and had solid reasoning behind his card choices. You don't draw Hornet or Foolish all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='Brandon Michael Geren' timestamp='1330648786' post='5850840'] Jeff Jones did it at YCS Atlanta. He's a well-recognized good player and had solid reasoning behind his card choices. You don't draw Hornet or Foolish all the time. [/quote] Except Jeff didn't make the Top 32 with that engine inside while others who used Inzektors with no Jurracs did. Also, I did say "a generic situation". Of course if you do not have the set-up, Jurrac Guaiba will be used. However, the set-up is generically common, and will be seen much more oftenly than the Jurrac Engine doing its thing in the deck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 Jurracs are now one of the easiest to splash engines. Stop trying to be a hipster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonk Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330649428' post='5850865'] Jurracs are now one of the easiest to splash engines. Stop trying to be a hipster. [/quote] So the engine is: 3 Guaiba 1 Aeolo 2 Lance If I am not mistaken? Though tbh, it is thrown into decks that have space to spare. It is good, but it isn't abusive nor broken in any way. Not really a good reason for Laggia's limit. Also, hipster > d*ckrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1330649258' post='5850858'] Except Jeff didn't make the Top 32 with that engine inside while others who used Inzektors with no Jurracs did. Also, I did say "a generic situation". Of course if you do not have the set-up, Jurrac Guaiba will be used. However, the set-up is generically common, and will be seen much more oftenly than the Jurrac Engine doing its thing in the deck. [/quote] Jeff didn't make Top 32 with Nordics but a bunch of people still made that. There's a bunch of theory-oh behind that, and your post following this one shows how wrong you are, so I don't feel a need to explain any further. Not having the set-up is a very generic situation. I don't draw the set-up quite often. Bluffing having Hornet is a cool play and I do it a lot. The Jurrac engine is a lot better when the opponent begins to commit less to the field after seeing the matchup. Plus, Lance is a great card to let Inzektor effects get by Fiendish Chain when you don't have MST. [quote name='evilchris' timestamp='1330649428' post='5850865'] Jurracs are now one of the easiest to splash engines. Stop trying to be a hipster. [/quote] Jesse played it in Malefics. And in my format, which is relevant because that had Book and Tsukuyomi at numbers higher than one, justifying Jesse's decision. [quote name='Koloktos' timestamp='1330649599' post='5850874'] So the engine is: 3 Guaiba 1 Aeolo 2 Lance If I am not mistaken? Though tbh, it is thrown into decks that have space to spare. It is good, but it isn't abusive nor broken in any way. Not really a good reason for Laggia's limit. Also, hipster > d*ckrider [/quote] You are quite mistaken. Aeolo is extremely unnecessary. Velo is run over it if the user is retarded, but usually it's just 3 Guaiba. My post that started this argument specifically said Guaiba and Lances. Inzektors have loads of space. It's extremely broken, but it is definitely not a good reason for Laggia's limit. The only time that 2 Laggias will be brought out by the Jurrac engine is if Reborn is played. Avarice is not a viable reasoning for 2 Laggias being Summoned because Avarice can return Laggia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted March 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='Brandon Michael Geren' timestamp='1330648786' post='5850840'] Jeff Jones did it at YCS Atlanta. He's a well-recognized good player and had solid reasoning behind his card choices. You don't draw Hornet or Foolish all the time. [/quote] Afterwards he said he would've just played TGU Inzektors because apparently if you Leviair a Wind-Up Rabbit you keep it even after it banishes itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Michael Geren Posted March 2, 2012 Report Share Posted March 2, 2012 [quote name='byakklon Omega' timestamp='1330658030' post='5851129'] Afterwards he said he would've just played TGU Inzektors because apparently if you Leviair a Wind-Up Rabbit you keep it even after it banishes itself. [/quote] He didn't play TGU? I would rather use TGU and Guaiba than Guaiba and no TGU. That was also just a random example of a good non-Rabbit deck using the card because it can be splashed into things easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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