Resident Fascist Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [center][img]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111105175908/yugioh/images/thumb/6/68/WindUpHunter-PHSW-EN-SR-1E.jpg/300px-WindUpHunter-PHSW-EN-SR-1E.jpg[/img][/center] [center]Misaki's favorite card.[/center] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDDRodrigo Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 Bannable card due to the environment. It's a very fine card on itself, it's a 1-for-1 that requires a specific monster tribute. But the deck spams way too much for those traits to be acceptable, and banning Zenmaity would hinder the deck way too much unnecessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeal Ascendant Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 I haven't watched enough of the vanguard anime to get it... >< Anyway, needs to be banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toffee. Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 ITT: [img]http://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/88256NoHandAnywhere.jpg[/img] The card itself is fine. Its the fact Boat basically gives you unlimited of these + another Wind-Up, is when it gets problematic :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted March 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='Armadilloz' timestamp='1332791566' post='5889641'] [img]http://gametechmods.com/uploads/images/88256NoHandAnywhere.jpg[/img] [/quote] [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120310052444/cardfight/images/thumb/2/28/62a.png/300px-62a.png[/img] yyyouuu callleeedd? Anyway, ban this and put Zenmaity on 2 for a bit and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathSDelano Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='Order-Sol' timestamp='1332791706' post='5889647'] [img]http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120310052444/cardfight/images/thumb/2/28/62a.png/300px-62a.png[/img] yyyouuu callleeedd? Anyway, ban this and put Zenmaity on 2 for a bit and see what happens. [/quote] my Shark.dek runs Zenmaity @2 with [email="Shark@3"]Shark @3[/email] and Magician @2. Adds alot of consistency to the deck .-. anyways, hate this card with a passion .-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='Order-Sol' timestamp='1332791706' post='5889647'] yyyouuu callleeedd? Anyway, ban this and put Zenmaity on 2 for a bit and see what happens. [/quote] Zenmaity to 2 is horrible. It's comparable to Formula Synchron at the moment, so why on Earth should it be @3 while it is infinitely abusable? Even without Hunter it can do mini-loops, so it needs to go to 1 for now, and maybe even 0 eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNo.101 S.H. Death Knight Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1332799913' post='5889863'] Zenmaity to 2 is horrible. It's comparable to Formula Synchron at the moment, so why on Earth should it be @3 while it is infinitely abusable? Even without Hunter it can do mini-loops, so it needs to go to 1 for now, and maybe even 0 eventually. [/quote] But then again you only need 1 hunter just to be abusable :S it's a hilarious fact if Zenmaity doesn't exist this card doesn't worth attention and zenmaity exist this card become centre in the attention lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='~Poker Face~' timestamp='1332802098' post='5889908'] But then again you only need 1 hunter just to be abusable :S it's a hilarious fact if Zenmaity doesn't exist this card doesn't worth attention and zenmaity exist this card become centre in the attention lol [/quote] You realize he was going off of if Hunter was banned as well you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 26, 2012 Report Share Posted March 26, 2012 [quote name='~Poker Face~' timestamp='1332802098' post='5889908'] But then again you only need 1 hunter just to be abusable :S it's a hilarious fact if Zenmaity doesn't exist this card doesn't worth attention and zenmaity exist this card become centre in the attention lol [/quote] Not even arguing hunter, actually. Hunter needs to go to 0 because, while it's fine as a card, its archetype has now become too good at abusing it for stupid combos. Even if you remove Zenmaity, it exists as a OH WE CAN'T DO X SUPPORT kind of card. Hunter needs to die completely, sadly, and Zenmaity needs to go to 1 because it's Formula Synchron at its peak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Is banning him really necessary? I feel that limiting it to 1, along with Zenmaity at 1 as well, would work just fine: Wind-Up Decks would still have a decent card remover at their disposal (the others being Snail and Kitten, which bounce rather than eliminate the card), but wouldn't be able to abuse it that much... unless I am missing something; I know Wind-Ups still have Factory and Magician to aid them with the swarm, but with both Zenmaity and Hunter @1, as soon as the latter reaches the Graveyard it will be more difficult to recycle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='Frex' timestamp='1332807793' post='5889987'] Is banning him really necessary? I feel that limiting it to 1, along with Zenmaity at 1 as well, would work just fine: Wind-Up Decks would still have a decent card remover at their disposal (the others being Snail and Kitten, which bounce rather than eliminate the card), but wouldn't be able to abuse it that much... unless I am missing something; I know Wind-Ups still have Factory and Magician to aid them with the swarm, but with both Zenmaity and Hunter @1, as soon as the latter reaches the Graveyard it will be more difficult to recycle it. [/quote] Good wind-ups only run 1 Hunter, so yes it is necessary to ban him. Wind-ups can still drop a 5 card hand even with one hunter, though it is situational. The boat is the real problem, but this card just cannot exist in the game, given how its archetype is set up. Snail is bad and Kitten's a tech at absolute best. Pretty sure it's a bad one, at that. Hunter has to die despite being abused, as he can be abused no matter his placement while a boat is alive, and he just promotes restrictive card design in the same way Brionac does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Ban this and limit the nice boat. Wind-up was suposted to be a XYZspam.dek, not a freaking handrape.dek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1332812307' post='5890168'] Ban this and limit the nice boat. Wind-up was suposted to be a XYZspam.dek, not a freaking handrape.dek. [/quote] They ARE Xyz Spam in addition to hand rape. If Hand Rape was their only win condition, they'd be terrible. Though you are correct about this and that demonic boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSektor Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1332812905' post='5890196'] They ARE Xyz Spam in addition to hand rape. If Hand Rape was their only win condition, they'd be terrible. Though you are correct about this and that demonic boat. [/quote] Yeah, I know it, but handrape in the first turn is too broken for this game, seriously. They should ONLY be XYZ Spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNo.101 S.H. Death Knight Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='HSektor' timestamp='1332827147' post='5890487'] Yeah, I know it, but handrape in the first turn is too broken for this game, seriously. They should ONLY be XYZ Spam. [/quote] This Consider it will show fair play on their part if they're just consider to be Xyz Spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 This gives the deck a stupid loop that requires only 1 extra card that destroys an entire hand, this makes it terrible card design and something that [i]should[/i] be banned. Zenmaighty is also a limitable card, take into consideration that the next list will almost definitely hit Inzektors in some fashion, and likely hit Hieratics too, possibly and hopefully also Rabbit. This leaves Wind-Ups as the best deck by a significant margin, to the point that Zenmaighty on a whole breaks the deck, so it should be hit to prevent a terrible format. With all these threats gone the top decks would likely become: Dark Worlds, Ninja variants, possibly Geargias, possibly Heroes, possibly Agents of a form, FrogNarchs/Lancer and even brings X-Sabers could come back into the spotlight. Now, where a varied metagame may not be the easiest to deal with, it's better than having 2 decks that by far exceed the abilities of the rest, then another deck that still doesn't remotely come close also exceeding every other deck. Yes, YCS Long Beach did for the most part appear to prove this theory wrong, however at such a large event, rogue decks would prevail easily, not everyone will be skilled out of 4000 players, especially, and mental stamina plays an incredibly large part. /theory-ohthatwasbarelyontopicreally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Moonflowyr Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 I always thought Rat was the real problem in the loop... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='~Spike~' timestamp='1332852993' post='5890689'] I always thought Rat was the real problem in the loop... [/quote] Rat makes Wind-Ups viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332853050' post='5890692'] Rat makes Wind-Ups viable. [/quote] Basicially this along with Boat. Hunter is the one who has stepped out of line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Moonflowyr Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 Shark + Magician + Another Shark + Factory + etc. is also one way to make windups viable. Rat helps, but I only ever see it used well in the loop. Limit rat, semi Zenmaighty, get rid of the loop, and people find slightly different ways to play Wind Ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='Order-Sol' timestamp='1332853194' post='5890694'] Basicially this along with Boat. Hunter is the one who has stepped out of line. [/quote] Zenmaighty still needs to go to 1 for reasons I already explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Fascist Posted March 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='Chris' timestamp='1332853232' post='5890697'] Zenmaighty still needs to go to 1 for reasons I already explained. [/quote] I didn't say not to leave boat, but it shouldn't be banned in the fact that hunter enables the loop and Zenmaity is just fuel for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 [quote name='~Spike~' timestamp='1332853215' post='5890696'] Shark + Magician + Another Shark + Factory + etc. is also one way to make windups viable. Rat helps, but I only ever see it used well in the loop. Limit rat, semi Zenmaighty, get rid of the loop, and people find slightly different ways to play Wind Ups. [/quote] Or Limit Zenmaighty and leave Rat alone. Without the loop, Wind-Ups lose the thing that made them so threatening. Their ability to suddenly go off and rid a player of their resources is what made them good. As an Xyz spam deck they're absolutely fine, but Zenmaighty allows for piss poor OTKs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alice Moonflowyr Posted March 27, 2012 Report Share Posted March 27, 2012 If their ability to make players lose resources is what made them good, then Zenmaighty should go to 2. Rat at 1-2 slows the loop down anyway. And people also really dont run more than one Hunter. Hunter is a good card on its own, a 1 for 1 that needs an archtype-specific tribute. Rat and Zenmaighty make the loop possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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