Appearently, the existance of [Alternate Win Conditions] poses a huge threat to the game

[werewolfjedi]

ok, so to summarize, we like the concept of a true alt. win because it makes the game more interesting, but we do not like it when someone will base the whole deck around it because they have made the alternate win into their only win condition, which doesn't mean it's an alternate win condition, it a special win effect.
so, what we want is a new setup of win conditions, such the one venomanaga has, that still has the ability to win in a normal style, and we all are saying the "normal wins" are by damage, right?

[Blake]

[spoiler=Such Good design]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ij0mF.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Nj9hY.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/GN68K.jpg[/IMG]
[/spoiler]

Seriously, I had pressure on him and stupid amounts of advantage from the first turn, and still lost, even with a monster able to go lolstall (Citrine) thanks to One Day of Peace ._.

I'm not mad about it, but something's wrong here.

[Miror B]

[quote]
Seriously, I had pressure on him and stupid amounts of advantage from the first turn, and still lost, even with a monster able to go lolstall (Citrine) thanks to One Day of Peace ._.

I'm not mad about it, but something's wrong here.
[/quote]
I didn't like that game at all.

And I was the one playing Exodia that won .-.

Like seriously every turn was "Kinka, Piper, ditch hand size, go for it"

He only managed to hit me twice with Citrine because of One Day of Piece, and I forced him to waste 2 Citrines on Big Eye to make field space to avoid losing resources to hand limit.

[Mr. guy]

Hey guys

There's another alternate win condition. Get your life points to infinite.

Hey guys

There's another alternate win condition. Get your life points to infinite. Also milling

[Blake]

[quote name='Mr. guy' timestamp='1334772977' post='5917999']
Hey guys

There's another alternate win condition. Get your life points to infinite.

Hey guys

There's another alternate win condition. Get your life points to infinite. Also milling
[/quote]
Empty Jar and Loops have been mentioned so IDK what you're on about.

[-Berserker-]

Well, I used this deck a couple of formats ago that had Exodia as an alternate victory, while the main one was just to summon 2 Quasars and 1 Trishula in one turn for massive damage (of course, it took 15 minutes of combos, and the opponents got bored after the first 10. At least it was not abusing a loop). After I posted it here, Konami decided half the deck was worth being hit. Now I have to return to decks that just prevent the opponent from winning as the strategy.

[.Rai]

Venominaga is the closest YGO wil ever get to a well-designed alt win card.

Alternate win conditions shouldn't strive to be ridiculously abusable. The fact that that is an alt win means that you're screwing the rules and the design has to be over the top; showy-offy and really baws. Also, they've got to be visible in order to maintain some form of player-player interaction. Exodia and others totally disregard this.

Boss monsters do that the best, and Venominaga follows this alt win design theory well. A couple of examples of the theory in action from MtG.

[url]http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=230788&type=card[/url]
[url]http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=150992[/url]

Both are utterly ridiculous when you look at them. They follow design rules pretty well too. Note that both pretty much have a lot of infinite combos. It's why I consider Flint Loop a legitimately designed alternate win condition. I must admit though, it was terrible foresight on Konami's end.

[Azuh]

Actually I liked the design in Exodius, but its just too inconsistent. This is what its effect shouldve been:

[i]Cannot be Normal Summoned or Set. Cannot be Special Summoned except by returning all monsters from your Graveyard to your Deck. This card cannot be destroyed by battle. When this card declares an attack, send 1 monster from your hand or Deck to the Graveyard and add 1 "Forbidden One" card from your Deck or Graveyard to your hand. This card gains 1000 ATK for each Normal Monster in your Graveyard. When this card is removed from the field, banish it.[/i]