[Disc] Chain Material

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2ewff3k.jpg[/IMG]

Fun card is fun. Especially with Fusion Gate.

[Blake]

Should be banned because of how many OTKs it enables without much use outside of them, but it won't be.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='Yuzuru Otonashi' timestamp='1337971869' post='5946830']
Should be banned because of how many OTKs it enables without much use outside of them, but it won't be.
[/quote]

They're not really consistent ones but yes, it does enable OTKs. Not really a good reason to keep it from being banned because then you have to look at the luck over skill factor of those OTKs. Outside of them it can be used with Vehicroid Connection Zone to make Vehicroid Fusions easier to summon as well as with Destiny End Dragoon.

[-Berserker-]

I want to use this in a more fun controllish way, like generating NEPTUNE fodder or something.

[Canadian]

Submersible OTK is mega legit.

Running about 30 normal monsters lol.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='-Berserker-' timestamp='1337972907' post='5946841']
I want to use this in a more fun controllish way, like generating NEPTUNE fodder or something.
[/quote]

That's a good a use as any.

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1337973029' post='5946846']
Submersible OTK is mega legit.

Running about 30 normal monsters lol.
[/quote]

Sounds lol. Probably not as legit as Dragon Master Knight OTK though.

[mido9]

Limit/Ban electrum.

Problem gets solved,and less decks get hit.

[Canadian]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1337973451' post='5946848']
Limit/Ban electrum.

Problem gets solved,and less decks get hit.
[/quote]
ITT: OTK decks don't need to be hit.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1337973451' post='5946848']
Limit/Ban electrum.

Problem gets solved,and less decks get hit.
[/quote]

Limiting Fusions or anything that goes in the Extra Deck doesn't really do anything and even if Electrum were banned, there's still OTKs this card can enable.

[mido9]

[quote name='Canadian' timestamp='1337973645' post='5946849']
ITT: OTK decks don't need to be hit.
[/quote]
There are OTKs with chain material outside of electrum? The aero shark thing seems too inconsistent to worry about.

[evilfusion]

With Xyz, especially higher Rank Xyz, this card is becoming theoretically more valuable with Fusion Gate, even outside of OTKs.

For example, most of the Omni HEROes are Level 8. With this, you can spam out several Level 8s that can't attack and die during the End Phase, but you can also just Overlay them for Neo Galaxy or one of the less epic Rank 8s. They still can't attack this turn, but you can whip out a bunch of huge monsters at once.

Fortunately, most people dont bother with this out of Blaze Fenix OTK because Chain Material preventing you from attacking really does hurt the strategies with it. It only became "good" when Blaze Fenix was released.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='mido9' timestamp='1337974188' post='5946851']
There are OTKs with chain material outside of electrum? The aero shark thing seems too inconsistent to worry about.
[/quote]

There's more OTKs than that. And they're probably inconsistent because of the more apparent problems with the current format. And even if they're inconsistent in an ideal format, there's the luck factor to consider since specialized Deck-types built solely around those OTKs depend on luck to achieve their OTK. Not ideal or skillful if you ask me.

[mido9]

[quote name='Judgment Dragon' timestamp='1337975087' post='5946860']
There's more OTKs than that. And they're probably inconsistent because of the more apparent problems with the current format. And even if they're inconsistent in an ideal format, there's the luck factor to consider since specialized Deck-types built solely around those OTKs depend on luck to achieve their OTK. Not ideal or skillful if you ask me.
[/quote]
I guess i cant argue with that.

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='Judgment Dragon' timestamp='1337973725' post='5946850']
Limiting Fusions [u]or anything that goes in the Extra Deck doesn't really do anything[/u]
[/quote]
so...if i read this correctly (the underlined part specifically), you could say that Limiting Shi En didn't really do anything to Six Sams? However if the correct Extra Deck card (i.e Zenmaity) was hit, then it would do something to the deck that utilizes it.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='evilsoul' timestamp='1337975906' post='5946865']
so...if i read this correctly (the underlined part specifically), you could say that Limiting Shi En didn't really do anything to Six Sams? However if the correct Extra Deck card (i.e Zenmaity) was hit, then it would do something to the deck that utilizes it.
[/quote]

It only really means that you can only use 1 copy of that card. If said Extra Deck card is broken, Limiting it won't make it any less broken. I guess that now that you put it that way, my analogy of Extra Deck cards and how Limiting them doesn't really do anything isn't entirely true because it does in a way.

[Wildflame]

It creates insane unstoppable loops, but it shouldn't be banned because it doesn't wins tournaments /tewart

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='Wildflame' timestamp='1337977006' post='5946875']
It creates insane unstoppable loops, but it shouldn't be banned because it doesn't wins tournaments /tewart
[/quote]

I can't help but chuckle at that because that's actually the reality of what happens with Konami's ban lists.

[~British Soul~]

[quote name='Judgment Dragon' timestamp='1337976166' post='5946869']
It only really means that you can only use 1 copy of that card. If said Extra Deck card is broken, Limiting it won't make it any less broken. I guess that now that you put it that way, my analogy of Extra Deck cards and how Limiting them doesn't really do anything isn't entirely true because it does in a way.
[/quote]
i guess can't argue with that

[~Call of the Haunted~]

[quote name='Judgment Dragon' timestamp='1337976166' post='5946869']
It only really means that you can only use 1 copy of that card. If said Extra Deck card is broken, Limiting it won't make it any less broken. I guess that now that you put it that way, my analogy of Extra Deck cards and how Limiting them doesn't really do anything isn't entirely true because it does in a way.
[/quote]

Shi En as a card is bad design, everyone knows that. But, it became truly broken when you could summon multiples in a turn, or at least control more than 1 at a time. When Shi En got limited, Six Samurais lost a lot of the steam they had. They're still VERY good and probably one of the best Tier 2 decks, but Shi En's limit is what caused them to go a tier lower.

Sure, Smoke Signal's limit had a big role in it, but I believe Konami did the right thing by limiting Shi En as well. Banning it would make Six Samurais even worse. I mean, it is all under the power creep, and on a healthier game that I wished for, Shi En wouldn't even exist and a deck like Six Samurais would lose Gateway and still be pretty powerful, but yeah, under the current circunstances, Shi En's limit is the main reason why Six Samurais aren't top tier anymore.

With that said, yes, limiting Extra Deck cards do have a relatively big impact on the game, and I hate to talk about the counters for cards, but they're also important and having only 1 chance (in theory) to go for that broken Brionac or Shi En makes those cards too vulnerable to counters like the Solemn trio. I want cards like Brionac and Shi En banned, but Konami wouldn't do that so soon, especially to the Six Samurai.

[Agro]

Please don't tell me we're comparing Sams to Fenix OTK.

[Mr. Judgment Dragon]

[quote name='Inzektor Ladybug' timestamp='1337999866' post='5947091']
Shi En as a card is bad design, everyone knows that. But, it became truly broken when you could summon multiples in a turn, or at least control more than 1 at a time. When Shi En got limited, Six Samurais lost a lot of the steam they had. They're still VERY good and probably one of the best Tier 2 decks, but Shi En's limit is what caused them to go a tier lower.

Sure, Smoke Signal's limit had a big role in it, but I believe Konami did the right thing by limiting Shi En as well. Banning it would make Six Samurais even worse. I mean, it is all under the power creep, and on a healthier game that I wished for, Shi En wouldn't even exist and a deck like Six Samurais would lose Gateway and still be pretty powerful, but yeah, under the current circunstances, Shi En's limit is the main reason why Six Samurais aren't top tier anymore.

With that said, yes, limiting Extra Deck cards do have a relatively big impact on the game, and I hate to talk about the counters for cards, but they're also important and having only 1 chance (in theory) to go for that broken Brionac or Shi En makes those cards too vulnerable to counters like the Solemn trio. I want cards like Brionac and Shi En banned, but Konami wouldn't do that so soon, especially to the Six Samurai.
[/quote]

Such is the reality of the game. Limiting them still doesn't change the effects that are written on the cards. Brionac and Shi En are still the same poorly designed and broken Brionac and Shi En respectively in terms of effects.