Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Plague wasn't just limited because of Zombies. It's a card that can be used by a lot of different decks, though I'm not sure they would want to use it at more than 1 anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Hey guys, this thread still exists and you should all like, post and s***. Or at least test stuff which I'm currently too lazy to do which totally doesn't make me a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Well lately I haven't found anyone to actually test the format with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorKingA Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 This list is terribad. I'm not even joking, this has to be a trolljob. Please tell me it's a trolljob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='TerrorKingA' timestamp='1343387709' post='5990101'] This list is terribad. I'm not even joking, this has to be a trolljob. Please tell me it's a trolljob. [/quote] thank you for your insightful and well thought out reasoning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorKingA Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='byakksmodeus' timestamp='1343387932' post='5990102'] thank you for your insightful and well thought out reasoning [/quote] I'd only be stating facts I'm sure most people have already presented. Like how banning Infernity Launcher completely murder's the Deck's consistency. Or how Bestiari is an instant +1 that leads into another monster that gives you a +2 upon summon. Or how banning alternate win conditions is just downright silly. There really is nothing to say beyond "terrible list". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I want you to tell me why you think alternate win conditions are good for the game and should exist. Also, I'm not sure what the current consensus on Launcher/Gyz/Besti is but from just looking at the explanations I assume Launcher is unbanned and Gyzarus is banned. The list solves a lot of problems that the current format possesses, and all you're complaining about is irrelevant-semi irrelevant decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='TerrorKingA' timestamp='1343389809' post='5990110'] I'd only be stating facts I'm sure most people have already presented. Like how banning Infernity Launcher completely murder's the Deck's consistency. Or how Bestiari is an instant +1 that leads into another monster that gives you a +2 upon summon. Or how banning alternate win conditions is just downright silly. There really is nothing to say beyond "terrible list". [/quote] F*** the deck's consistency if the only way for it to be consistent is with a themed double monster reborn. Bestiair being an instant +1 on summon is fine when it's way of being a +1 needs you to connect with a not-so-high atk monster,and gyzarus is dead. Alternate win conditions make the game about luck of the draw than outplaying your opponent. Which is bad. Really bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 This reminds me of Joe Giorlando's banlist to an extent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mido9 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='byakksmodeus' timestamp='1343390709' post='5990119'] This reminds me of Joe Giorlando's banlist to an extent. [/quote] I saw that list,it's well intended and fixes a lot,but i feel he fixed everything in widely the worst way possible ie AHL and blade armor instead of stratos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yeah, not to mention he hit Diva when Seahorseman is the actual problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerrorKingA Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='byakksmodeus' timestamp='1343390478' post='5990116'] I want you to tell me why you think alternate win conditions are good for the game and should exist. Also, I'm not sure what the current consensus on Launcher/Gyz/Besti is but from just looking at the explanations I assume Launcher is unbanned and Gyzarus is banned. The list solves a lot of problems that the current format possesses, and all you're complaining about is irrelevant-semi irrelevant decks. [/quote] You know, the list we're currently using solved some problems, but created so many others. This is what this list does. As for Alt Win Cond. they add greatly needed diversity to this game. The alt win conds. in this game can't do anything other than win a single duel though, so they aren't even close to being a problem. There's a reason nobody tops with DragonExodia or Final Trolldown. And finally, Gladiator Beasts getting back Bestiari is just bad for everyone. War Chariot + Equeste and Bestiari/Gyzarus would just make a Gladiator Beast format. Even with Gyz being banned, this would still be a terrible format to play in. I spoke about diversity earlier, but all this list does is give it the proverbial arrow to the knee. [quote name='mido9' timestamp='1343390665' post='5990118'] F*** the deck's consistency if the only way for it to be consistent is with a themed double monster reborn. Bestiair being an instant +1 on summon is fine when it's way of being a +1 needs you to connect with a not-so-high atk monster,and gyzarus is dead. Alternate win conditions make the game about luck of the draw than outplaying your opponent. Which is bad. Really bad. [/quote] 1. Infernity's whole gimmick is not having a hand, so their cards are designed to mitigate that fact. X-Sabers have Gottom's Emergency Call + hand size and mass special summoning. Launcher doesn't deserve any kind of hit. If you want to rightfully nerf Infernity, hit Brionac. 2. Are you implying Bestiari would remain on the field? After your +1 you'd sack it for one of the GB Fusions or use it to Xyz summon. Hell, most players would only call it out when they have a chance of killing something with it or attacking directly. 3. No. You wanna know what luck of the draw is? Wind-Ups. If Alt. wins were so dangerous they would be tier 1, not tier 3. Also, they add diversity to the game. Wanting them gone seems to be aching from the butthurt that losing to them caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I fail to see how triple Bestiari makes GBs annoying to deal with, ESPECIALLY without Gyzarus. [quote]There's a reason nobody tops with DragonExodia or Final Trolldown.[/quote] Final Countdown has already topped this format. And what the hell do you mean by alternate win conditions adding needed diversity? Even if they're an additional decktype for the game, they're still f***ing annoying as s*** to play against, why should they exist if they're just going to suicide bomb premier events? When you say the list has "created so many other" problems, the only "problem" you have brought up so far is Bestiari to 3 which isn't even a problem to begin with. The only things I could see spawning from this banlist are Evols/GKs with multiple copies of Tsukuyomi, triple Scapegoat decks (even though triple Scapegoat is one of the best changes to be introduced to newer formats), and the rise of old decks like Blackwings and X-Sabers maybe clashing with some of the newer decks. This format has a mass reduction in unfair combos that the current format has, and that already makes it 100x better than what we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legend Zero Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='TerrorKingA' timestamp='1343391563' post='5990126'] The alt win conds. in this game can't do anything other than win a single duel though, so they aren't even close to being a problem. There's a reason nobody tops with DragonExodia or Final Trolldown. [/quote] Everybody on this planet would rather cut deck diversity (lol) than have existing decks that boil down to "DRAWDRAWDRAW" or "STALLSTALLSTALL". They both also limit what card designers can do. And DragonExodia? Doesn't that version suck now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Man, I guess Murmillo's broken too, guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Vengevine' timestamp='1343399754' post='5990176'] Man, I guess Murmillo's broken too, guys. [/quote] In TerrorKingA's POV, I'm sure it is. Funny how this format makes Glads struggle though. They have more Bestiaris, and other support, but those same supports are being used against them as well, mainly Book of Moon (lol). Also, Launcher just feeds into an OTK for the "consistency" of the Deck. Its where if you leave it, its broken, but if you take it out, the Deck is nearly dead. Its safe to say that it's better to have something die than let it overpower THIS format. Edit: On another side note! Shouldn't we put like a list of users who are actually intending to use this Format in DN? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 A lot of the posts on this page give me cancer I like this list, but I still think Grapha should go over Snoww Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Nightmare Zarkus' timestamp='1343409904' post='5990288'] A lot of the posts on this page give me cancer I like this list, but I still think Grapha should go over Snoww [/quote] This is why you don't mess around with stupid. Those damn crabs just latch onto whatever they can find. Anyways, I've said it once, I'll say it again: Keeping broken, badly design s*** in the name of "diversity" is not even remotely intelligent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Especially if the archetype as a whole is broken and badly designed >_> coughinfernitiescough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Oh yeah, thoughts on actually hitting Broww instead of any other DW? I've explained it in other threads, but hitting it seriously hampers DWs so much. They're only decent as it is because they have a whopping 7-8 Grapha targets in the deck. Removing Broww from that, they're also forced to run 3 Beiige. This means they only have 3 Snoww and 3 Beiige as Grapha targets while removing the draw power Broww gave. They can run other stuff, but the whole deck becomes hugely weaker without killing off their one shot at consistency in Snoww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Actually, hitting Snow (searcher) vs. hitting Broww/Grapha (Draw/Boss) is more viable. Snow "gets" you the plays. Grapha "IS" the play but he's not that bad to deal with. Horrid design on infinite revival so long as you have a Summonable DW in hand, but not invincible. Broww gets you your hand advantage back, but Snow does that and even better...OR Semi-Limit: Snoww Grapha Broww Wonder how that would test? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine Jesse Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='Kenji Inuma' timestamp='1343412613' post='5990324'] Grapha "IS" the play but he's [b]not that bad[/b] to deal with. [b]Horrid design[/b] on infinite revival so long as you have a Summonable DW in hand, but not invincible. [/quote] That seems to be contradicting. Why don't you advocate hitting Grapha harder if you see it as horrid design? I mean it'd even be more tolerable at 1- That way you'd have to be more conscientious of outs to it such as D-Prison and Bottomless, and you'd get rid of some of the ridiculous Xyz plays that can be made with it, but the deck would still have a lot of power. The two copies removed could be replaced with some Malefic monsters, which given the higher risk associated with them, would encourage being more conservative with them and make the deck more skillful. I've always been a proponent of lowering power over consistency, because removing consistency just makes a deck more sacky (and thus generally less skillful) unless you build a completely different version of it. Just my two cents really. If my reaosning is faulty then feel free to point it out and explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Your reason isn't faulty at all, its just the way Grapha plays with the archtype that makes it "bad design" but not so hard to "deal with". Here is what I mean by bad design: Can be easily revived, is a 2700 beater, provides a 1-4-1 effect when discarded, and has additional effects when discarded by the opponent. So why is he not hard to deal with: Support Cards such ass, BoM, D.D. Crow, Shadow Imprisoning, D. Prison, Bottomless, etc. Its not that hard to stop a Dark World deck, but the Grapha's design really posses itself as a stepping stone for more cards among its type of power and playability, same way Rescue Cat somewhat aided in the creation of Rescue Rabbit, except unlike Rescue Rabbit, it plays to get "itself" out instead of "something bigger than itself". That's why I support Rescue Rabbit being limited, and Grapha being untouched/semied. Edit: And even though he is bad card design, Snoww is the real problem since she makes the plays increadibly consistent in the first place, which again is why I wouldn't mind having her at 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guuu1234 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 i like the list. Though i wonder why out right ban Hornet when you can limit Centipede? that sounds more realistic to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='guuu1234' timestamp='1343421468' post='5990438'] i like the list. Though i wonder why out right ban Hornet when you can limit Centipede? that sounds more realistic to me. [/quote] Hornet is the only problem card. Floater Inzektors can still be an actual deck. As for the DW argument. I would much rather someone prove to me that hitting Broww isn't the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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