HSektor Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I know that this topic is "not legal", but I'd really like to know what is the opinion of you guys when it comes to this question. IMO, a good format is a format where a good number of decks have a chance to be "meta". A format where a meta deck doesn't completely rape a undermeta deck. [If this top is really ilegal, I'd really appreciate if it was moved to the right subforum.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Times New Roman 12 Point Font. 1 Inch Margins. Double Spaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Durandamon Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1342924078' post='5985098'] Times New Roman 12 Point Font. Double Spaced. [/quote] What about comic san...*shot* IT: It would be a format where Konami stopped being such an @$$ and stopped making broken cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BehindTheMask Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 Its simple - Any format where a better player can outplay the worse player and win a majority of games due to said skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agro Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1342924078' post='5985098'] Times New Roman 12 Point Font. Double Spaced. [/quote]1 Inch margins. Don't want those points off on term papers now, do we? OT: Many Different Decks with Different Playstyles, but all of them require skill to play well. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 A format where Holy Pile of Random.dek can win of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byak Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 A format with Scapegoat at 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airride Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 There is no such thing as a good format because almost everybody [i]WILL[/i] find [u]SOMETHING[/u] to B**ch about. Fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppeli Gyro Supreme Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Airride_Master' timestamp='1342929374' post='5985163'] There is no such thing as a good format because almost everybody [i]WILL[/i] find [u]SOMETHING[/u] to B**ch about. Fact. [/quote] That's true with anything, really. Sadly, there is no way to make things different but equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Majishan Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 A format where skill dominates, where people don't "win" on the first turn, where at least 7-8 decks are able to compete on relatively equal footing, no alternate win conditions, where a person can't gain massive advantage from 2 cards and no herp derp cards or combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1342938196' post='5985283'] A format where skill dominates, where people don't "win" on the first turn, where at least 7-8 decks are able to compete on relatively equal footing, no alternate win conditions, where a person can't gain massive advantage from 2 cards and no herp derp cards or combos. [/quote] So... Chain Burn, Empty Jar, Exodia, Final Countdown, Hieratics, Lavals, Inzektors, and Wind-ups all die? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1342968950' post='5985484'] So... Chain Burn, Empty Jar, Exodia, Final Countdown, Hieratics, Lavals, Inzektors, and Wind-ups all die? [/quote] Yes please. To be honest, it's impossible to even have a good format anymore because Konami have made too many mistakes. It would take them years to let the game recover and have a good format, unless they completely revamp YGO. [quote name='Le Magician' timestamp='1342938196' post='5985283'] A format where skill dominates, where people don't "win" on the first turn, where at least 7-8 decks are able to compete on relatively equal footing, no alternate win conditions, where a person can't gain massive advantage from 2 cards and no herp derp cards or combos. [/quote] Going to clarify that 'combos' here meaning 'combos that are win conditions'. Otherwise, most combos are fine. Obviously, herp derp already covers that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Expelsword Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I don't think you can just shiv [i]all[/i] the major decks, though (except Exodia), 'cause I don't know that everyone will tolerate making hugely different decks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miror B Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1342968950' post='5985484'] So... Chain Burn, Empty Jar, Exodia, Final Countdown, Hieratics, Lavals, Inzektors, and Wind-ups all die? [/quote] Inzektors not so much, just ban Hornet there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Expelsword - 黎明' timestamp='1342969751' post='5985499'] I don't think you can just shiv [i]all[/i] the major decks, though (except Exodia), 'cause I don't know that everyone will tolerate making hugely different decks. [/quote] YGO already forces you to change decks all the time. It's how they make money. Banlists, new sets, new archetypes, new money cards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 a good format would support 3 tier 1, and 3 tier 2 decks if you ask me. let me explain. 3 best decks, would be pure decks, a control deck, meant to counter play and repeatedly poke under their protection, an agro deck, reliably able to drop a beat-stick every turn to over power and eventually overwhelm, and the combo deck, meant to wait and bide their time till the right moment, and then play out a combo that drains most of their resources, but setups the field to give them victory within a few turns, 2-3, maybe 1 if they have been able to apply pressure while biding time (effectively the otk deck). these deck have their one purpose and beat each other in a R/P/S format, each one able to dominate one deck, but fails under another's tatics. they however have a chance to beat their bad match with a little luck, and side in plays, which of course can be countered by counter side in plays . the tier 2 decks, should be combinations of 2 of the 3 decks, and beat their component decks regularly, but lose completely to the 3rd type or a counter play sided in, even with a full side in because of the lack of flexibility in order to function, thus giving the deck a lynchpin target for the counter play. combo/control beats control and combo fairly well, but agro is just not their language and beats their face in. control/agro beats control and agro by using the other half, but combo decks can turn it around end game to win with little trouble. agro/combo decks just have a reliable state, but can't over whelm the control deck because of the the lack of reliability in the deck. good examples of all these decks can be found in this game, it's just a bit unbalanced right now in combo and agro's favor. we need better counter plays that put the user in a better position, or hurt the countered. so lets see here. agro deck : chaos dragons. big monsters, big hits, a bit too fast to be fair from REBMD, but that's not the point, the point is it breaks the 2100 ATK bar every turn with a monster drop they have. this is honestly the most balanced deck out there in terms of how it can survive without it's broken card. [s]control deck[/s]: zxy gadget counter. reliable to the poke, and able to counter play, and create more counter plays off the monsters, however, it's not strong enough to really be good.so sadly this falls to control deck : dino rabbit.. techincally a control agro deck that instead of falling to combo falls to agro more often, it's stupid and over powering in terms of balance, and needs to be hit really, but we all know this already. the point is that it sets up counterspells by doing short combos off card effects that lead into other cards for their effects or just to be material for the zxy summon. this is the essence of control combo deck: inzectors and Wind-ups loop style: these would be good, if it wasn't for hornet and hunter creating too much advantage off the creation of the combo instead of the combo itself. this is also something that needs to be fixed because that makes it so you never need to complete the combo, but instead just loop the build up plays. hunter loop and hornet would be fine to be honest, if it wasn't for the deck summoning component their combos have, meaning that they never need to wait for their combo to play out or set up into. also inzectors should have been field or graveyard, never hand, that set them up too much and too easily. combo/agro deck : chain burn. this is a PERFECT example of a lynchpin in a tier 2 deck that still always a threat, but can be counter played with siding easily it sets up, plays off, and does it again in a turn or two, holding off the opponent while it does. control/agro : dark worlds: at first you would think " control? how" but then look at it closer, it's a targeted destruction deck that short combos into it's boss monster. it's technically a tier1 deck I believe atm, but that's because of grapha at 3, creating an otk possibility, technically making it a control/agro/combo deck, which would mean it should be "tier 0", since if your deck can do everything decently well, then siding should you win round 2 and 3 of the match every time in a correctly balanced game with a accidentally broken deck, if it wasn't for the fact that others decks are just plain out broken as well. reduce grapha to 2, and snow to 2, and I feel it would perfectly balanced for high tier tournament play. and combos do play out against dark worlds very well, again why it's not "tier 0". if anyone else wants to point out things against this please do, I"m trying to be comprehensive as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='werewolfjedi' timestamp='1342978734' post='5985623'] nonsense i cant read [/quote] Why on earth should a good format be that systematic? Not to mention you propose a Tier 1 combo deck. They're always broken and/or badly designed. All you need is a moderately diverse format that's skill-intensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='.Rai' timestamp='1342979275' post='5985628'] Why on earth should a good format be that systematic? Not to mention you propose a Tier 1 combo deck. They're always broken and/or badly designed. All you need is a moderately diverse format that's skill-intensive. [/quote] systematic as this? no, I was just giving a stable example, and yes there should be a tier 1 combo deck, because without that then agro just wins. because in a balanced game, from my POV, simple decks should beat control decks, and control decks should beat complex decks, and complex decks should beat simple decks. also agro control and combo is really just my magic playing side coming out, I don't mean them in literal translations, it's the best way I can describe them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Rai Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='werewolfjedi' timestamp='1342980551' post='5985653'] systematic as this? no, I was just giving a stable example, and yes there should be a tier 1 combo deck, because without that then agro just wins. [/quote] The aggro/control/combo archetype in YGO is so much more fluid and more loose. The only combos that can really exist without being broken are ones that aren't win conditions. In which the deck basically reverts to being a control or aggro deck with a combo in it. Otherwise, I'd genuinely like to see Konami try without having control decks and aggro decks have to main 3 Veiler all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werewolfjedi Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I think the problem is the speed of this game, combo would be fine if it needed to have to buy time, but like you said, veiler, which I believe your also indicating the 1st turn drops the game allows right now. we need a somewhat slower meta than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Cakey Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 I didn't read past your first couple sentences, but 3 tier 1 and 3 tier 2 is much less diverse than what we have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='BehindTheMask' timestamp='1342925114' post='5985107'] Its simple - Any format where a better player can outplay the worse player and win a majority of games due to said skill. [/quote] This. Just this. I mean look at Goat Format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synchronized Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 There is no good format. Whether or not that has been said already, I cba to look through the whole thread, but let me explain why. You see, no matter how "good" or "bad" a format is, as it progresses, the player base will become extremely disappointed with the top Decks, especially those who either A.) can't afford to build said Decks or B.) get "bored" playing with them/don't win with them. Plant Synchro was a crazy Deck and the format definitely saw some broken cards/combos. However, I've heard plays say now that they'd take Plant Synchro over Dino Rabbit any day. I'm not sure whether I agree 100%, but the point is, every format is really the same; people will continuously complain about the top Decks until the new format begins, at which point the new top Decks will be cool for a week or two, and then when the same people begin to top/win, those same players complain. Now, an [i]ideal[/i] format would be one in which skill is emphasized over everything else. And of course, fun, because you know, despite their being some players who may not understand such a concept, this is a Card [i]Game[/i]. This crazy format with such a lack of player interaction, hand loops, Tour Guide from the Underworld, and +4 combos each turn, is [i]not[/i] a "good", nor "ideal" format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerion Brightflame Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 There is never going to be a good format, becuase competetive players find ways to break it. and once one person has broken it, people either cookie cut, or have to adapt to broken tatics just to keep playing. It will always happen, the actual details of what cards get broken don't matter hugely. Its the same story in any game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This Account is Unplayable Posted July 22, 2012 Report Share Posted July 22, 2012 No one ever got bored of Goat Format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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