Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 skeleton 4 [b]When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: Send the top card from your Deck to the Graveyard. If the card sent this way was a Spell or Trap card: Negate the activation of that card and, if you do, destroy it. After this card resolves, if the negated card is in the Graveyard: You can send 1 card from your hand of the same type (Spell or Trap) as the card negated by this effect; Set it on 1 of your Spell/Trap Card Zones.[/b]oh and: [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img843/362/12427542.png[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: Send the top card from your Deck to the Graveyard. If the card sent this way was a Spell or Trap card: Negate the activation of that card and, if you do, destroy it. After this card resolves, if the negated card is in the Graveyard: You can [b]send[/b] 1 card from your hand of the same type (Spell or Trap) as the card negated by this effect; Set it on 1 of your Spell/Trap Card Zones. OCG fix: Sending it to where? I think "target" is the word we look for. For the Skeleton 5, I don't like to where the effect is going: Although it no longer has any kind of Special Summon condition, pretty much all of the effects are a +1, something we have been trying to avoid. I think we should focus on effects that don't generate card advantage instead (inflicting damage, bouncing, etc.) For instance, we could change the Trap effect so the ability to negate lasts until your next turn, discouraging the opponent from activating Traps and essentially working as a Shock Master. For the Spell effect: remove the part that adds a card from Deck to hand; getting rid of your opponent's copies should be enough of a punish. The most frequent Spell target will be MST, and getting rid of all MSTs would cripple severely the opponent. As for the Monster effect, it could stay that way because you might not have a monster in the Deck with the same level as the banished monster, and the target being DARK is even more situational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 I'll give my thoughts by each new situational effect: *Monster: The monster effect is fine and balanced. *Spell: A tweak too strong. The spell you banished could be book of moon, and then you can search out an extremely powerful card. The sending of cards from deck to the grave is okay. I think that, instead of searching as the reward, you could pump up its Atk by 500 for each card that was sent to the graveyard with its effect. This would give it more beatstick capacity, and it's a helluva lot less broken than searching a powerful spell card. *Trap: You get to negate AND draw? A bit too much of a reward for banishing a trap card, probably the most commonly set card. We should definitely cut out the draw effect. The negate is more powerful than the 1k LP cost for your opponent to activate a trap, and it's a suitable reward for expending 2 powerful level 7s for a 2.8k monster. @Frex: Turning it into a Shock Master would be a bit less "fun" or "cool", so to speak, than negating the next trap card that activates. Before we proceed, we should take a look at some of the existing (and actually used by getting rid of 2 level 7s) rank 7s for reference and to establish a power context: *Mermail Abyssgaios: A devastating card that can shut down entire turns by negating basically all of your opponent's monster effects. *Number 11: A card that can steal your opponent's boss monsters and permanently change the course of the duel. *Hierophant of Prophecy: A 1-sided heavy storm. Twice. What I'm trying to say is that these monsters are extremely powerful, and our card should reflect that. I'm not saying that it's UP'd, but I am saying that we should consider this context before we make any changes that could potentially nerf it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A._Sakuyamon Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1350407961' post='6045757'] skeleton 4 [b]When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: Send the top card from your Deck to the Graveyard. If the card sent this way was a Spell or Trap card: Negate the activation of that card and, if you do, destroy it. After this card resolves, if the negated card is in the Graveyard: You can send 1 card from your hand of the same type (Spell or Trap) as the card negated by this effect; Set it on 1 of your Spell/Trap Card Zones.[/b] [/quote] It seems pretty underpowered now. Cause now it's basically a -2 no matter what happens. Activate, mill 1 it's misses and there card goes through and does whatever it does and then it can't even copy. Or it hits right and you mill and discard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 Actually, when I think about it, making it a form of Anti-Meta with these many effects could be bad...but maybe tweaking the effect wouldn't be a bad idea. We want a Generic Level 7, but not one that outclasses others,,,and I'm thinking...something along these lines now: 2 Level 7 monsters Only once, while this card is face-up on the field: You can detach 2 Xyz Materials from this card and target 1 card on the field or in a player's hand; banish that target. Then, apply the appropriate effect based on that target's type (Spell, Trap or Monster): ● Monster: Select 1 monster with an ATK, DEF OR Level equal to the banished monster's ATK, DEF OR Level and add it to your hand. If you banished a DARK monster your opponent controlled with this card's effect, you can Special Summon the selected monster instead. ● Spell: You can negate the activation of a Spell Card your opponent activates within their next 3 turns. ● Trap: Increase the Spell Speed of 1 Trap Card you activate within the next 3 turns by 1. The last 2 effects...seem quite decent since your opponent has to now face either a Spell Speed 3 Mirror Force which Starlight can't do anything about, or makes your Solemn that much more powerful, but only once time. Not only this, but this effect is applied only once so if you somehow give it more Xyz Materials, you can only use it once (unless u book of moon of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 So, it's a 1-time searcher, spell negater, or invinci-trapper... Before I proceed, might I ask why you changed the effect so that it can only be used once? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 because it seemed more fitting, balanced, useful and non-abusable. Also...ATK should've been 3000 also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 16, 2012 Report Share Posted October 16, 2012 So, tha card looks something like this now? (Card Name) LIGHT Rank 7 Xyz/Effect [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1350417513' post='6045924'] 2 Level 7 monsters Only once, while this card is face-up on the field: You can detach 2 Xyz Materials from this card and target 1 card on the field or in a player's hand; banish that target. Then, apply the appropriate effect based on that target's type (Spell, Trap or Monster): ● Monster: Select 1 monster with an ATK, DEF OR Level equal to the banished monster's ATK, DEF OR Level and add it to your hand. If you banished a DARK monster your opponent controlled with this card's effect, you can Special Summon the selected monster instead. ● Spell: You can negate the activation of a Spell Card your opponent activates within their next 3 turns. ● Trap: Increase the Spell Speed of 1 Trap Card you activate within the next 3 turns by 1. [/quote] 3000/2300 Well, these new effects are just as strong, if not stronger than, the old ones, and the 3k label is nice. The fact that these are pretty strong, but they can only be used once, makes the card less abusable. Me gusta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Looks like everyone's brains shut for a few days >_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A._Sakuyamon Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 No one replied on my thoughts for the counter....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sorry bout that, gents. I just made an Inzektor deck in DN and I've been testing it out. I agree with D.A. that now skelly #4 is UP. I think that it would be better if it had a LP or discard from hand cost, or maybe both... That would balance the card. Maybe you could discard a card from your hand with the same card type as the activated card to negate it, in which case the LP cost isn't as necessary. What does everyone else think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted October 19, 2012 Report Share Posted October 19, 2012 Sorry guys, its just that all my ideas for the LIGHT Xyz have been bad so far, so I stopped thinking about it. I only disagree with the effect involving Spell Speed because currently no official card deals with it and I feel we should leave that mechanic untouched. For instance, turning a Normal Trap a into Counter seems way too abusable, and in theory Counters would reach Spell Speed 4, going above the rules. Reminds me of the discussion on "The Fabled Unicore" and how its effect was considered by a few as Spell Speed 4. As for the Counter, remove the milling effect so it will work 100% of the time. And it seems it will work as "Dust Tornado" that negates Spell/Traps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 The trap speed spell effect is a bit powerful, but this is a 1-time effect, and this monster is the equivalent of level 9. I find it to be suiting the card well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.A._Sakuyamon Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='sora1499' timestamp='1350685021' post='6048420'] Sorry bout that, gents. I just made an Inzektor deck in DN and I've been testing it out. I agree with D.A. that now skelly #4 is UP. I think that it would be better if it had a LP or discard from hand cost, or maybe both... That would balance the card. Maybe you could discard a card from your hand with the same card type as the activated card to negate it, in which case the LP cost isn't as necessary. What does everyone else think? [/quote] [quote name='Frex' timestamp='1350686777' post='6048445'] Sorry guys, its just that all my ideas for the LIGHT Xyz have been bad so far, so I stopped thinking about it. I only disagree with the effect involving Spell Speed because currently no official card deals with it and I feel we should leave that mechanic untouched. For instance, turning a Normal Trap a into Counter seems way too abusable, and in theory Counters would reach Spell Speed 4, going above the rules. Reminds me of the discussion on "The Fabled Unicore" and how its effect was considered by a few as Spell Speed 4. As for the Counter, remove the milling effect so it will work 100% of the time. And it seems it will work as "Dust Tornado" that negates Spell/Traps. [/quote] K could I get a potential OCG for either direction? Also, the reason I haven't commented on the Xyz is because I don't know enough about xyz's in general to give decent input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Here's my take on how skelly #4 could look: [b]When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: discard 1 card from your hand of the same card type (monster, spell, or trap); negate that card's activation and effect(s), and destroy it. When this effect resolves, if the negated card is in your opponent's graveyard: you can pay 1000 LP; set it in one of your spell/trap zones.[/b] Notes: So now it's a good deal more usable than chance's rendering and not as broken as D.A.'s rendering. I added the 1000 LP cost for balance, because being able to use a card that you just negated is an extremely powerful ability. Thoughts, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Make it 1500 Life point cost and you have a new staple? At 1 anyway, as it will require you to discard a card of that type making it slightly less consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1350755311' post='6048966'] Make it 1500 Life point cost and you have a new staple? At 1 anyway, as it will require you to discard a card of that type making it slightly less consistent. [/quote] Are you saying that skellyy #4 is still broken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Nope, but the cost is a bit uneven. 1500 seems...just right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Just ocurred to me that we should take the LP cost out, and change it so the cost is revealing a card of the same type as the card you attempt to negate. Thay way, if you want to negate a Trap, you must hold a trap in hand, that might be better used on the field; the same goes for negating an Spell. Now, if you want to be able to negate both, then you would have to hold both an Spell and a Trap. The card would be mind game by itself: Should you activate that Monster Reborn in your hand now, or keep it in hand to negate your opponent's next Spell? Then with this Trap's second effect you will be able to set the targeted card in your hand. Still, a card that negates with no cost is overpowered, right? Considering that the closest card that does this gives the opponent a free draw (Dark Bribe). I was thinking that maybe you should[i] reveal 2 of the same type[/i], rather than one, so this card will have a more restraining cost if you wish to use it. Something like this: [b]When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: Reveal 2 cards from your hand of the same card type (Spell or Trap); negate that card's activation and effect(s), and destroy it. When this effect resolves, if the negated card is in your opponent's graveyard: you can Set 1 of the revealed cards.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 The card now has to discard 1 card of the same type as the card you're trying to negate. .-. That requires you to have a Spell/Trap in hand. The added Life was to Set the card negated this way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 @Frex: [quote name='Frex' timestamp='1350760603' post='6049061'] Just ocurred to me that we should take the LP cost out, and change it so the cost is revealing a card of the same type as the card you attempt to negate. Thay way, if you want to negate a Trap, you must hold a trap in hand, that might be better used on the field; the same goes for negating an Spell. Now, if you want to be able to negate both, then you would have to hold both an Spell and a Trap. The card would be mind game by itself: Should you activate that Monster Reborn in your hand now, or keep it in hand to negate your opponent's next Spell? Then with this Trap's second effect you will be able to set the targeted card in your hand. Still, a card that negates with no cost is overpowered, right? Considering that the closest card that does this gives the opponent a free draw (Dark Bribe). I was thinking that maybe you should[i] reveal 2 of the same type[/i], rather than one, so this card will have a more restraining cost if you wish to use it. Something like this: [b]When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: Reveal 2 cards from your hand of the same card type (Spell or Trap); negate that card's activation and effect(s), and destroy it. When this effect resolves, if the negated card is in your opponent's graveyard: you can Set 1 of the revealed cards.[/b] [/quote] Revealing 2? Blech! This is gonna become on of those cards that is super-broken in design but then Konami nerfs it somehow and then it's never used. Think about it: if you have 2 traps in your hand, 99% of the time at least 1 of them is gonna be a backrow card, like mirror or bottomless. Skelly #4 would only ever be used for the spell effect, and even then rarely so, probably only in Prophecy decks. Setting 1 of the revealed cards is pointless: the card can't be activated until your next turn! I'd rather run solemn than this: despite the cost, it's a helluva lot more splashable. @Chance: With your edit in mind, here's my rendering of the card: [b]When your opponent activates a Spell, Trap or Spell/Trap Effect: discard 1 card from your hand of the same card type (monster, spell, or trap); negate that card's activation and effect(s), and destroy it. When this effect resolves, if the negated card is in your opponent's graveyard: you can pay 1500 LP; set it in one of your spell/trap zones.[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 the "monster" part isn't needed since it doesn't negate "monster" effects. Other than that, it's an easy 1-4-1 card that if you have the price to pay becomes a -/+0 which actually looks fairly decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darj Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 What I dislike of this card is the LP cost, because the Solemns already have a price, but I guess this prevents its abuse. And I just noticed you Set the card that you negated, not the card you discard; I misread the effect. I agree with the last effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sora1499 Posted October 20, 2012 Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 [quote name='Chance Furlong' timestamp='1350761858' post='6049077'] the "monster" part isn't needed since it doesn't negate "monster" effects. Other than that, it's an easy 1-4-1 card that if you have the price to pay becomes a -/+0 which actually looks fairly decent. [/quote] Is this a reply to my rendering or Frex's? [quote name='Frex' timestamp='1350762817' post='6049089'] What I dislike of this card is the LP cost, because the Solemns already have a price, but I guess this prevents its abuse. And I just noticed you Set the card that you negated, not the card you discard; I misread the effect. I agree with the last effect. [/quote] Alrighty then, we'll just hear D.A.'s thoughts on the card and maybe we can call it done. But it still needs a name... How about [s]meteor shower[/s] vengeance of the forgotten? It looks like the dude is summoning disembodied souls, which could represent how we're using discarded spell/traps to negate the effect and how you can resurrect the negated card to use it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Tigerwolf Posted October 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2012 Asundering De-Force and that was to your render sora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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